Doesn't shoot very far up into your main expansion.
Feedback: Like to thank everybody for all the current feedback and giving me plenty of great ideas. I have spent the most time on this map compared to all my other maps and I think it shows as this map is much better then any of my other previous work. I will update/bump this thread again when I get some replays on it. (hopefully some high level pros!)
I would like to see some natural cliffs mixed in (f.e. at the low ground 3rds). The rocks at the HY might also not be needed (the HY is already out of position and hard enough to take and hold). Overall the map looks fine
This is very Xel'Naga Caverns-esque. The gold is harder to hold, the third is easier, but the middle allows more direct paths to the enemy. This could be good or bad, as siege tanks would have an easier time controlling the middle than they would on XNC, but might work better for Zergs due to more flanking paths.
I'll agree that the mains are too small. A good rule of thumb is at least a 25CC main because Terrans need so many structures. I'll agree with Dezi about the rocks at the high yield as well, that's a tough enough place to hold as reinforcing with ground units will take some time. Might need some additional doodad work as well (think flowers throughout the valley, maybe some fog or light beams, etc.)
Overall, it's pretty decent. I think games will trend towards 2 or 3 base play, as the gold and 4th aren't as easy to defend here as they are in XNC due to the reconfigured middle ground. Those bases will just stretch forces pretty thin with no quick or easy way to get back to a main that's getting raped. Keep working at it
Thanks for all the feedback so far, I've gone and changed up some things and will include the pictures below. Let me know what you think of these pictures so far compared to the older one, such as if I'm going in the right or wrong direction.
The toughest part I feel so far is still the middle and where to place the xel'nagas to make them useful.
Also I feel the 3 gas expo still might be too hard to hold. I added a ramp to an upper level which allows easier access to the enemy, but now I'm thinking that might be overkill and maybe would be better to have something else there.
(ps, don't mind the texturing/doodads in this overview, I had to delete/mirror a bunch of them)
What I did change or what I'm trying to change: Made the mains bigger. Completely reworked the middle. Changed Xel'naga placement. Made gold easier to get to. Made 3gas expo closer to main.
The pink area would be removed (make it the same height as the lower ground). Yellow dots are XWT's, and the black lines around them would be los blockers. The red areas are where I would suggest turning the ramps the other direction. Given the proposed location of the XWT's, having those ramps facing outward I think would make it easier to use the low ground route should tanks be holding the tower, if there's enough room ofc. Those types of changes would allow them to be used defensively by each player holding their gold, but still open to flanking from the other side of the mid.
Just a possibility imo.
Going back to the original, as for the making the mains larger, 28cc's is better. You could also replace the bridges by the golds with a short land bridge potentially and keep most of your original design.
Posting here is a means for getting some feedback and ideas, but remember in the end it's your map and you don't have to let everyone else' opinion hijack it from you. I only say this because Idea's 1-4 look like almost total reworks. Keep experimenting with your own ideas as well, as that's the only way we as a community can make progress in mapping. Yeah, this map might not be perfect or used that much, and maybe the next one won't be either, but we need to experiment with maps so we can experiment with play and advance the thoughts behind the game.
Option #1 is better than the others, except you need to adjust the towers. I prefer the original layout though. =D Mostly because the routes are interesting with the middle like that. I would make two watchtowers on the center lowground, one in each alcove next to the gold ramp. It would help you defend your choice of gold, and get people further out on the map, since you can both have one tower, ostensibly.
Appreciate the advice guys. With that said I went back to my original layout, at least for this map. Basically I changed up where the 3gas expansion is and added more lower grounds. The 3rd now doesn't have rocks at the backdoor so it's easier to take, the gold is also closer to your natural and can be much closer if you take out the rocks. Otherwise I removed the rocks on the gold. Also added some more rain, fog, flowers, trees, rocks and much much more!
Kind of took Doz's idea with the LoS blockers & the xel'nagas, just put them in a different place.
I've gotta say I really like the changes. Really like.
The gold expo's and the land bridges going to them really give players a choice, which helps tremendously with balance, interest, and fun game play. I also like the removal of the rocks going to the third. As a zerg they should be able to take it pretty easily, whereas terran and protoss might opt for the gold as it allows them to expand towards their enemy. I think this map now has the potential for some nice macro games.
Only suggestion from here is perhaps a little more doodad/texture work, depending on how detailed you want to go, and get some testing in on it.
The middle is pretty, but I think it'd play better if it were just open.
I really like how the 3gas expo is more vulnerable now, but still viable. First time I've seen a choked up path behind the minerals work well, because of the role of that expo on the map.
Version 2.0 is out. Original post has been updated so please feel free to check it out and let me know what you think. As I have said in the post I'd like to thank everybody for all the current feedback and giving me plenty of great ideas. I have spent the most time on this map compared to all my other maps and I think it shows as this map is much better then any of my other previous work. I will update/bump this thread again when I get some replays on it. (hopefully some high level pros!)
Let me know if you guys find any problems with it.
So I played a couple games against the computer just to get a feel for moving on the map. I discovered that the middle is just fine with the clump of pillars. :D There's so much space elsewhere that it's okay. Either way is fine I think. I'm liking this map, hopefully I can give you some replays eventually.
Yeah, I played a couple games myself and then just thought that if you went the middle path, yes you were low ground so that was a disadvantage, but also with the pillars in the middle it'd only take 2 forcefields to completely block off each route, which I felt was just not enough. So I took out the stuff in the middle but ended up adding those statues/fires at the edge of the middle to keep it still a little more narrow, but not as much as it was before.
If you do get any replays on it, feel free to post them, that would be great. I'm hoping I can get a hold of some of my master friends that will spare some time to play a couple games on it so I can upload those replays.
the middle is sick. the only thing i would recommend is have a little more leeway for bigger units at the 3 gas. the big tree doodad thingy should be replaced with high ground... and i suggest making the minerals pointing sideways instead of just left and right. the 3 o clock faces norht west and the 9 oclock faces south east. this gives the 3 gas base a bit more room to maneuver and not cramped in.
@FlashFTW I assume you mean something more like this? + Show Spoiler +
If so, I'll definitely have to play around with it like that to see how I like that compared to how I currently have it. To be honest I didn't even really think too much about the tight chokes behind the 3 gas expansion and trying to maneuver ultralisks/thors around them, would definately be a pain.
Adjusting the 3gas layout is fine, but personally I like the way it is now. You have plenty of other good routes, they don't all have to be a-move friendly with large armies / large units. By orienting the minerals like that, it makes the 3gas base very vulnerable, which I think is important. It also means a frontal assault should come from the middle-facing side, which makes sense to me. It also helps protect the lowground base for the other player. But if you made it more standard it'd play fine too, just less interesting.
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