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Hi guys!
First i want to point out that i am not only doing this because i want to become a master, I found out that my old thread ("Characteristics of a Diamond zerg" will post link below) not only helped me alot, but also got alot of great response from other people. When i started the old thread i was desperatly stuck at 1600 platinum, but climbed my way all up to where im currently at, 2700 diamond. Thanks to you
So basically this thread it for those who feel like they dont improve their gameplay and need help from the forums.
So forum. What do you guys think seperate the diamonds from the masters? Share your thoughts about the master league and how you got there
Best regards, Mythol
Link to the old thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=170781
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Master League Zerg Players:
1. Can't afford to miss injects, it seriously costs you the game.
2. Never lose scouting Overlords early on and know the best positions for them.
3. Know when to build harvesters or combat units based upon good scouting.
4. Spread creep in every direction with ease.
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5. Macro like a son of a bitch because you're going to need it!
6. Picks the right tech units to counter opponents based off of scouting information
7. Constant scouting throughout the entire game
8. Isn't afraid to play off of and manage 5+ bases
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I am a low masters Zerg. And I think te biggest thing that separated zergs in that are and those directly above and below them is good scouting and acting on that scouting. Understanding when you are safe and when you can drone. By about low diamond I think most players have reasonabl mechanics, so what really takes you to the next level is just having a good understanding of te matchups that allows you to put those mechanics to good use.
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It's sometimes hard to recognize the things that you do well, but I find the things that make the biggest difference at Master level in each of the MUs are:
ZvZ, good scouting, careful balancing of army, don't force attacks, but still try to be aggressive to keep an initiative.
ZvT: creep spread, creep spread, creep spread. I cannot stress how important it is in this matchup to have amazing map control as slowing down marine tank pushes are the only way to get a strong economy going to crush an attack.
ZvP: known all your timings cold and know what you're scouting
More generally though the difference between masters and diamond is smoothness a lot of the time.
Does your pool start right at 200 minerals, do all your drones start either right when you have 50 minerals or right when you have a new larva, does your queen start asap, zergling speed right at 100 gas, lair (whenever you go for it), right when you have your next 100 gas, tech buildings as soon as they can go down, etc. The difference between diamond-level execution of that and master-level can be 10+ food in the first 5-6 minutes and that just cascades for the rest of the game.
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Nothing, MMR gets you in masters, MMR is only controlled by how often you win and again whom, not how you win.
This whole myth that people have in leagues have some different fundamental play-style is pretty unfounded. It's not like the system promotes you when you learnt to scout, only when your MMR is high enough, and probably also a random factor.
You can get to masters on macro, awareness, micro, combination of both, being an excellent cheeser, maphacks, multitasking...
2% is also a pretty arbitrary number, could have been 2.5, could have been 1.5, could have been 1.
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I'd say the two most important things would be:
1.) Creep spread (usually it's good to get a 3rd queen for spreading creep somewhere between 30 and 60 food)
2.) Keeping your money low after the 2 base point.
Creep spread is very important for playing defensively. It makes such a huge difference for how effective your flanks and surrounds are. It's huge for banelings chasing marines. Later in the game, it gives you good scouting information. Also, it's hard, but try to replace creep that's been destroyed once your opponent gets detection.
Most non-masters can keep their money low up until two bases, but then it falls apart when they take a third (or are supposed to take a third but don't). A lot of times the player has 2000 minerals and 0 gas. This can be corrected by taking your third earlier and/or by throwing down a macro hatch in one of your existing bases. Especially when going mutaling, you need the extra hatches for larva for your lings. Watch Idra's stream and you'll see he often times has 4 hatches by the 15 minute mark (usually 3 bases and 1 macro hatch).
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What seperates the men from the boys in the zerg department is mostly mechanics, in diamond you know what to do to counter the enemy build, but you just can't perform it, atleast that's my case, missing injects once in a while, making drones and attacking units at the wrong times, getting your bling nest, roach warren, spire, baneling speed whatever a few seconds too late, these things costs you games.
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I'd think that, other than the obvious creep spread, larvae injects, when to drone / make units ( which are all zerg fundamentals ), the thing that I have seen a lot from master players is the decision making
and overall feel of the gameplay of every matchups
Knowing how to deal with any pressure / scouting info you get, but most importantly apllying it int he game
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I wud say unit control, macro, and game sense seperates diamond from masters. A master player will generally pick a better time to engage then a diamond would, as well as missing less injects&overlords. People in diamond know what units are good, they just don't understand completely how to use them ( like flanking with banelings, roach positioning, and zergling counter attacks )
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Would you say that master league is when you require micro?
The reason I ask is because before the patch, I was what was considered to be "high diamond" playing on dial-up internet (multi-second latency.) Should I be able to get into masters? Or is the cut-off too high for "pure macro" players?
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On February 08 2011 03:42 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:
Nothing, MMR gets you in masters, MMR is only controlled by how often you win and again whom, not how you win.
This whole myth that people have in leagues have some different fundamental play-style is pretty unfounded. It's not like the system promotes you when you learnt to scout, only when your MMR is high enough, and probably also a random factor.
Did you seriously just write that? I hope this was supposed to be a trolling type of joke. The OP is clearly asking for the tips that Masters level Zergs use to win, which got them there. It is basically a "what should I do to hone the skills needed to play at that level.
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Pray to God that the toss/terran opponent didnt position smartly some marines/stalkers around the limits of their base so that when you decide to scout with your overlord it gets sniped in 3 seconds, leaving you with a very nice and warm "he can push with 5 different unit combs" mood
D:
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Hmm, lemme think
1) Get your BOs down perfectly, follow up correctly depending on what you scout
2) Know when you're able to drone (esp in ZvZ), be as greedy as possible
3) Always check out for the newest metagame change (watch gsl, streams, replays etc.)
4) Get practice partners for all match-ups!
5) Be prepared to get frustrated, masters is where you start to feel the imbalances (and Zerg is shit)
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On February 08 2011 03:42 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:
Nothing, MMR gets you in masters, MMR is only controlled by how often you win and again whom, not how you win.
This whole myth that people have in leagues have some different fundamental play-style is pretty unfounded. It's not like the system promotes you when you learnt to scout, only when your MMR is high enough, and probably also a random factor.
You can get to masters on macro, awareness, micro, combination of both, being an excellent cheeser, maphacks, multitasking...
2% is also a pretty arbitrary number, could have been 2.5, could have been 1.5, could have been 1.
I had to...
The system doesn't promote you when you start scouting because scouting is an arbitrary tactic that could be good or bad in a given circumstance, and the rating system has no reliable way of knowing what those circumstances are.
However: if beginning to scout is a tactic that leads to you winning more games, your MMR will increase, and the matchmaking system will then promote you because you started scouting. By way of comparison, if you start scouting and don't begin winning more games, the matchmaking system won't promote you, it's true, but objectively, you're not any better of a player if you're doing something and you aren't winning more games in the long run, and thus the matchmaking system has no business promoting you.
To generalize, no, the matchmaking system doesn't promote you directly for doing good things, but by doing good things, you will win more, because a good thing is a thing that makes you win more, definitively. The original poster could have rephrased the question as something along the lines of "what kinds of good things are most likely to translate into winning more games and thus a higher MMR?", but since everyone else understood that the two statements are equivalent, it was largely unnecessary.
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i play protoss but it seems master league zerg players are alot more aggressive early-mid game and macro better late game.
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there needs to be a terran version of this  ... should i make one. yes i might.
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I'm around same rating as you OP and I'm trying to get into master's as well. While I think that I have pretty good macro, game sense, and adequate micro, what seems to be holding me back is not having enough knowledge of the match-ups. I don't really keep up with prevailing strategies, timings beyond (warpgate research), and am probably too content to be a passive player.
I'm also pretty bad at reacting to unfamiliar situations and tend to get rolled over by fast terran or protoss pushes. The threshold between higher diamond and low master's seems to me to be very fine, and resides in extremely minute particulars (1 round of drones and you are dead).
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On February 08 2011 06:47 Dman wrote:
Would you say that master league is when you require micro?
The reason I ask is because before the patch, I was what was considered to be "high diamond" playing on dial-up internet (multi-second latency.) Should I be able to get into masters? Or is the cut-off too high for "pure macro" players?
In ZvZ and ZvT you generally need to be able to control your baneling and zerglings pretty well. I can think of some "master-level" styles of ZvZ where the micro might not be that hard, but ZvT you're going to need at least one of mutalisks or banelings (likely both) and both require you to be able to react relatively quickly, but I don't have experience playing on dial up to know what it's like, I know it's very frustrating/ impossible when I'm lagging in ZvT.
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On February 08 2011 03:25 Sajuuk7 wrote:
Master League Zerg Players:
1. Can't afford to miss injects, it seriously costs you the game.
I truly believe this is the most important, worthy of being #1.
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EPT
