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[M] (4) Noon Hill

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 11:43:32
January 16 2011 05:10 GMT
#1
Noon Hill 1.8
+ Show Spoiler [Overview] +
[image loading]


126 x 124
Agria Title Set

Replays

Download ZvT, TvT, PvZ (4 Gate), PvZ, PvZ Cross Spawns

I highly recommend watching the TvT replay.

I'm probably going to submit this map for the next MotM instead of Freerunner because this map is frankly a lot more balanced and more fun.

My Philosophy on Good Maps: + Show Spoiler +
I strongly believe that a good map doesn't force/heavily influence macro-oriented games or cheese or fast air builds or whatever. A good map has rush distances that make it possible to fast expand and to rush. Naturals that can be harassed, and defended (Lost Temple's cliff is too hard to defend). Maps should also be racially balanced. That one is more obvious of course. Another important thing is risk vs reward (RvR). Certain positions on the map should have advantages and disadvantages. Like on Blistering Sands, there is a low ground path, which is the fastest route between bases, but is vulnerable and overlooked by two Xel'naga Watchtowers. That's an ok example of RvR. There should also be points of interest (POIs). These can be created by expansions, map flow, and elevation. On Noon Hill, the high ground plateaus are considered POIs because they grant Terran and Protoss advantages and Zerg needs to control it for the opposite reason that Terran and Protoss do. Zerg needs to control it so that their enemy doesn't control it. POIs are mainly created by expansions, especially gold expansions, but it's always nice to have a map that has other POIs than expansions.


There isn't really any hill I guess, but the map is named after this place where my friends and I love to ride our bikes.

This is my first rotationally symmetric map and the expansion pattern is dictated by the spawns. The natural's choke is 9 units wide and can be walled off for a fast expand build easier than most ladder maps. Almost all of the replays that I have with Protoss show a Forge fast expand. The positioning and map flow around the different high ground and low ground areas make the map very interesting. This map is also more normally sized than my other large, macro-oriented maps. Cross positions on this map are much shorter than any other four player map that I have made, but expanding is still relatively easy.

Given the map's small size, I knew that expansions would have to be easy to expand to or the map will turn out to be a massive cheese/rush fest. Expansions are therefore difficult to scout because all of them beyond the natural are out of your way when you're traveling to your enemy's base. The natural is also easy to take, but I didn't want the map to become a turtle fest either, so I made the natural harassable from the adjacent thirds. Read the "Natural Harassment Viability and Defense from Harassment" spoiler for more information on this.

Natural Harassment Viability and Defense from Harassment: + Show Spoiler +
Natural Advantages:
-Easy to fast expand.
-Easy to build static defense behind the mineral line.

Disadvantages:
-Can be sieged from the adjacent third.

Zerg:
-Can spread Creep through the trees and creep into the adjacent third, but more importantly prevents proxy pylons from being able to warp units into your natural.
-Roaches can attack a siege tank or proxy pylon without going around if it is close enough to the trees (four units).
-If u don't have ranged units, you can always go around with Zerglings, but in Lost Temple you can't, and Roaches cannot attack the tank if it is in the back of the cliff. You also need line of sight, but in this scenario, you do not.

Protoss:
-Can build a proxy Pylon and warp units into the enemy's natural.

Terran:
-Siege Tanks, if positioned as close as possible to the trees, can hit workers and one of the geysers.
-If given line of sight from a unit (a viking or floating barracks) it can also hit the Hatchery/Command Center/Nexus.


Racial Balance: + Show Spoiler +
Terran:
-The high ground plateaus are definitely the place to be. If you're not in control of at least yours, Zerg will surround you easier and keep you on two bases and Protoss will take control of them and own you with Force Fields.
-Cliffing the mains is possible, so if your enemy builds there structures too close to the edge, fell free to siege up. This feature is like that on Lost Temple, how the mains extend into the battlefield.
-Siege the natural hehehe. Read the "Natural Harassment Viability and Defense from Harassment" spoiler for more information.
-You can fast expand.

Protoss:
-The high ground plateaus favor Protoss with their Force Fields. Sentries are a must for ZvP on this map and are extremely powerful.
-You can place a proxy pylon by the third to warp units into the enemy's natural.
-You can cliff with your Colossi.
-You can Forge Fast expand easily.

Zerg:
-There are a lot of open areas for surrounds, and now that the plateaus have an extra ramp, Zerg will be able to deal with proxies much easier.
-Can spread Creep from the natural to the adjacent third through the tree wall.
-Roaches can attack proxy Pylons and Siege Tanks that try to attack your natural from the adjacent third. Zerglings have to go around of course.
-Fast expanding is easy.
-Central Xel'naga Watchtower in the middle of the map favors Zerg because they can mass units there the easiest because of how open it is. The tower also reveals some of all of the high ground plateaus.
-Expansions past your natural are easy to take and more difficult for your enemy to scout because you can expand away from them and no Xel'naga Watchtowers overlook any expansions.

One interesting feature of this map is that a Siege Tank can hit workers and one vespene geyser of the natural over the gap, but the natural extends right up to the third, so close that if roaches were nearby, the Siege Tank would be in trouble.


Version 1.7 is now up. No promises about the lighting, but there are islands in the water for aesthetics (not shown in overview). I also added sun rays in the thirds and the XWT.

~Search "Noon Hill" to play!~

~Feedback is greatly appreciated!~

~My Map Thread~
No0n
Profile Joined March 2010
United States355 Posts
January 16 2011 05:22 GMT
#2
Wow.. when I first looked at the map I thought "is this byzantium?"

Well anyways I think this is a great map, but the thing is what do those xel naga watchtowers do at the ledges near the middle? I mean if you put your army there wouldn't they be able to see exactly what the tower sees?

Nice map overall, looks good :D
Park Sang Woo(Sea.Really) Fighting! E-STRO forever.
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
January 16 2011 05:24 GMT
#3
On January 16 2011 14:22 No0n wrote:
Wow.. when I first looked at the map I thought "is this byzantium?"

Well anyways I think this is a great map, but the thing is what do those xel naga watchtowers do at the ledges near the middle? I mean if you put your army there wouldn't they be able to see exactly what the tower sees?

Nice map overall, looks good :D


Yeah, I know what you mean. This map is smaller than my other map, I guess putting four XWTs was a mistake.

Didn't Byzantium have a low ground main and high ground natural though?
SmashHammer
Profile Joined January 2011
United States148 Posts
January 16 2011 05:39 GMT
#4
I really like the layout. seems like it would lead to a dynamic game with all of the ramps and different routes around the edges. i agree with NoOn about the Xel'Naga Watch Towers though. i think they would force fights over them more so than on other maps because if you get contained at your tower it would be very difficult to break.
TPW Mapping - theplanetaryworkshop.com
Epsilon8
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada173 Posts
January 16 2011 06:26 GMT
#5
Have you uploaded on NA server? I cannot seem to find it.
If you wish to travel far and fast, travel light. Take off all your envies, jealousies, unforgiveness, selfishness, and fears.
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
January 16 2011 07:23 GMT
#6
Version 1.1 is now on B.net.

@Epsilon - 1.0 was released privately, that was my mistake. Version 1.1 is public though, so if you want to go and check it out now, feel free to do so.

The XWTs have been removed and the map has been redesigned. The size of the mains has increased and a lot of the lower ground areas have been removed.
Epsilon8
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada173 Posts
January 16 2011 08:46 GMT
#7
Okay, thanks man. Way to go for all the nice work. They're some really nice maps : ).
If you wish to travel far and fast, travel light. Take off all your envies, jealousies, unforgiveness, selfishness, and fears.
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
January 16 2011 15:04 GMT
#8
On January 16 2011 17:46 Epsilon8 wrote:
Okay, thanks man. Way to go for all the nice work. They're some really nice maps : ).


Glad you like it!

<3
NullCurrent
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden245 Posts
January 16 2011 15:34 GMT
#9
Is it possible to siege the third/natural from the third/natural?

Otherwise, the expansion patterns look pretty much ok.
The Planetary Workshop - TPW - Mapmaking Team
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 22:06:14
January 16 2011 16:00 GMT
#10
On January 17 2011 00:34 NullCurrent wrote:
Is it possible to siege the third/natural from the third/natural?

Otherwise, the expansion patterns look pretty much ok.


I'll have to check if it's possible to siege the actual hatch/cc/nexus, but it is possible to siege one of the geysers and some of the mineral line.

EDIT: If the Siege Tank gets a helping hand from a floating Barracks or air unit it can hit the Hatch/CC/Nexus. Otherwise, it can only hit drones and one geyser. Check out the topic for more information.

V1.2 is now up and on B.net. This version was purely for aesthetics.

+ Show Spoiler [Overview of 1.2] +
[image loading]
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
January 16 2011 19:10 GMT
#11
Version 1.3 is now on B.net.

+ Show Spoiler [Overview of 1.3] +
[image loading]


I modified lighting and made it so that a Siege Tank from the third can hit the main structure of the nearby natural expansion with line of sight. I also connected the natural and third but put doodads there to block the path. This in theory is supposed to let creep grow out in that direction without letting units pass from the third into the natural. I haven't tested it yet, but am going to.

I increased the non-playable map bounds so that you can't see any black areas on the map, just more water.

I'm also going to check out the lighting in game to make sure that it isn't too bright.

Tell me what you guys think.
NullCurrent
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden245 Posts
January 16 2011 19:30 GMT
#12
On January 17 2011 04:10 Antares777 wrote:
made it so that a Siege Tank from the third can hit the main structure of the nearby natural expansion with line of sight. I also connected the natural and third but put doodads there to block the path. This in theory is supposed to let creep grow out in that direction without letting units pass from the third into the natural. I haven't tested it yet, but am going to.


Is that really a good idea? With siege-tanks from the third it is too easy to lock down a zerg as you can take out their hatchery. The rotational symmetry of this map makes it easy for terran if they spawn so that their third is close to the zerg/toss natural (PF + a few turrets can make it hard to counter the siege tanks).
Siegeing of the gas is somewhat ok IMHO, but I'd prefer if the natural is safe from harass which is hard to counter (ie. siege tanks on another cliff).
The Planetary Workshop - TPW - Mapmaking Team
No0n
Profile Joined March 2010
United States355 Posts
January 16 2011 19:39 GMT
#13
Yeah, Byzantium had low ground mains but your older version looked like it with a high ground main. I dunno, I dont really think that the tanks from the third should be able to attack the natural of the enemy, since its quite easy to defend and its quite some distance to attack the tank there. It could even just be one tank there and the rest of your army is defending your 3 bases that you got while also taking out their nat. I do not think that its a good idea to be able to hit the natural from the 3rd.
Park Sang Woo(Sea.Really) Fighting! E-STRO forever.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10184 Posts
January 16 2011 20:18 GMT
#14
it would be awesome of you put a gold at the high grounds bordering the center. 5 patches and 1 gas. i thi9nk you should move the natural a bit closer to the main, thus eliminating the tanks from shelling your natural... or you can move the edge gas to the other side.

why is everyone saying this is byzantium... to me, it... ooohhhhhh.... i see... lol, different tileset, and no mineral only that's close to the center... it kinda does look like byzantium...
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 20:46:43
January 16 2011 20:38 GMT
#15
On January 17 2011 04:39 No0n wrote:
Yeah, Byzantium had low ground mains but your older version looked like it with a high ground main. I dunno, I dont really think that the tanks from the third should be able to attack the natural of the enemy, since its quite easy to defend and its quite some distance to attack the tank there. It could even just be one tank there and the rest of your army is defending your 3 bases that you got while also taking out their nat. I do not think that its a good idea to be able to hit the natural from the 3rd.


Natural Advantages:
-easy to fast expand.
-easy to build static defense behind the mineral line.

Disadvantages:
-can be sieged from the adjacent third.

Zerg:
-can spread creep through the trees and creep into the adjacent third, but more importantly prevents proxy pylons from being able to warp units into your natural.
-roaches can attack a siege tank or proxy pylon without going around if it is close enough to the trees (four units).
-if u don't have ranged units, you can always go around with zerglings, but in Lost Temple you can't, and roaches cannot attack the tank if it is in the back.

Protoss:
-proxy pylon can warp units into the natural.

Terran:
-tanks, if positioned as close as possible to the trees, can hit workers and one of the geysers.
-if given line of sight from a unit (a viking or floating barracks) it can also hit the hatch/cc/nexus.

Notes:
-the trees act as LoSBs, so u'll have to have your tank positioned slightly to one side so that it can see.
-same goes with a proxy pylon.


It's balanced all right.

In 1.4 I'll be fixing the lighting, right now it's too bright.

@Flash - I'm not going to add gold expansions there. There's already enough expansions on the map and those plateaus are already vital positions to control. I'm going to upload a lot of replays soon, so be sure to check those out when I do.
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 21:46:32
January 16 2011 21:46 GMT
#16
The topic has been updated with intricate descriptions of racial balance and other strategic elements of Noon Hill. It will be continued to be updated with more strategic depth as I think of new strategies.

Wow.. when I first looked at the map I thought "is this byzantium?"


No... This is better than Byzantium.
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 01:32:05
January 17 2011 01:19 GMT
#17
Version 1.4 is now on B.net.

I fixed the lighting and swapped out the trees between the natural and the third to four pieces of foliage instead. The only difference is that foliage won't act as LoSBs.

~Enjoy~

EDIT: Going to play some games right now (8:30 EST). Join channel "obs" or message me if you wanna play or spectate. Antares.811.
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 10:06:31
January 17 2011 05:12 GMT
#18
1.5 is now up, but the image is not updated.

Lighting is fixed. And this time I mean it.

1.6 is up.

This time I mean it. Also, the middle and plateaus have been slightly redesigned to help nerf Terran Siege Tanks and Sentry Force Fields, which were too difficult to deal with before.

+ Show Spoiler [1.6 Overview] +
[image loading]


EDIT: I am a liar the lighting isn't fixed. D:
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-18 01:01:09
January 18 2011 00:57 GMT
#19
Finished 1.7.

+ Show Spoiler [1.7 Overview] +
[image loading]


I added some cool doodads where the forests were, and some mini islands not shown in the overview. The lighting should be fixed, but no promises.

EDIT: OMG the image isn't flipped! I wonder if Blizzard fixed that bug on Macs...
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
January 19 2011 18:11 GMT
#20
I added a download link to a folder containing five replays.

Download ZvT, TvT, PvZ (4 Gate), PvZ, PvZ Cross Spawns

I highly recommend watching the TvT replay, it demonstrates the map's potential for rushes and macro games along with how important it is to control the plateaus. It was on Noon Hill 1.5, when the middle ground was lowered, so it is slightly out of date, but it's a really good game.
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