EPT[M] (4) Noon Hill - Page 2
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
Final version is up and will be submitted for MotM #2 shortly! ^_^ | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
I'm going to watch that tvt and report back when I have the chance. | ||
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
On February 03 2011 09:23 EatThePath wrote: I don't remember it exactly, but when I looked at the first version I knew you'd be able to make big improvements here and there so I didn't post any feedback. Now I have to say, this is definitely the most solid map of yours I've seen. It hits that money spot where no frills is golden and captivating. glhf motm! ;0 I'm going to watch that tvt and report back when I have the chance. Thanks! I'm glad you like it! The version that the TvT took place on is outdated, the only difference is the extra ramp to each of the plateaus and the middle is raised up a level, but it should still convey the feeling of how a TvT would unfold on it. | ||
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lovablemikey
264 Posts
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
On February 03 2011 10:55 lovablemikey wrote: Simplicity is this maps strong suit. It has a good flow leading to the center and I like the high ground cliffs surrounding it. Nice work. I can't see any glaring imbalances. In fact, I would argue the map is very well balanced. Neat! Thanks, I agree, it is ridiculously simple. The first version I had was insane and looked like Byzantium with high ground mains crammed into a 126x124 map. So the versions that I've released have been making the map more and more simple, and with it came balance. The only imbalance that I've encountered is that the high ground plateaus have been favoring Terran and Protoss. The last two or three versions served the sole purpose of balancing them out by raising the middle ground and adding another 3x ramp that leads into the middle. I haven't run a lot of test games on the last two versions, so the plateaus may or may not be racially balanced, but they appear more balanced towards Zerg since the extra ramp has been added. | ||
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lovablemikey
264 Posts
On February 03 2011 11:34 Antares777 wrote: Thanks, I agree, it is ridiculously simple. The first version I had was insane and looked like Byzantium with high ground mains crammed into a 126x124 map. So the versions that I've released have been making the map more and more simple, and with it came balance. The only imbalance that I've encountered is that the high ground plateaus have been favoring Terran and Protoss. The last two or three versions served the sole purpose of balancing them out by raising the middle ground and adding another 3x ramp that leads into the middle. I haven't run a lot of test games on the last two versions, so the plateaus may or may not be racially balanced, but they appear more balanced towards Zerg since the extra ramp has been added. I did think the cliffs might be a little too siege friendly, but with the wide ramp I decided not to mention it, but now that you mention it; I think if the ramps closest to the naturals were all rotated 45 degrees clockwise, so that they are either vertical or horizontal instead of diagonal, it would make things better for the defending player. Right now they create a funnel because units need to run at the ramp and then turn 90 degrees to get up the ramp. That can be a problem for melee units. I drew a picture to give you a better idea of what I mean. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/a5egp.jpg) | ||
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No0n
United States355 Posts
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
@No0n - Roaches can more often than not attack Siege Tanks if they are too close to the foliage, and flanking them is also easy. A Hellion at the XWT isn't going to do much, the Zerg player will just move up through his adjacent plateau and avoid being seen. The XWT only gives sight up to a small portion of each of the plateaus. You can always go around and attack with roaches. Zerg can place a creep tumor by the foliage and the creep will spread through it, preventing the building of a proxy pylon close enough to warp units into the main. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Texture work is very ugly though | ||
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
On February 03 2011 21:15 sob3k wrote: I can see great games happening on this map  Texture work is very ugly though  Particularly, what areas need better texturing? I gave the middle and the plateaus a sort of overgrown feel and as it moved out towards the naturals a more rusted/overgrown metal area and gave the mains a natural feel but not as overgrown as the center. I'm not the best at texturing and always felt very weak in aesthetics. Is it my blending that needs work? | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On February 04 2011 05:16 Antares777 wrote: Particularly, what areas need better texturing? I gave the middle and the plateaus a sort of overgrown feel and as it moved out towards the naturals a more rusted/overgrown metal area and gave the mains a natural feel but not as overgrown as the center. I'm not the best at texturing and always felt very weak in aesthetics. Is it my blending that needs work? Here is the problem: You went about texturing starting with a base texture that was applied over the entire map and then sprayed additional textures around on top of it. This isn't how well textured maps are made because the results almost always look spotty and messy. The odd blue spots are particularly....prominent. Why are they there? Why do they just look like a dude with a can of spraypaint spritzed them there. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/FeW0o.jpg) You need to texture with a different mindset. Start with laying down a a few different base textures for some different "zones" of the map. Maybe one base texture for the main and nat, one for the center and third, and maybe another for the raised areas in the center, its your decision. Lay these down thick, then after the map has been "zoned", concentrate on blending the areas and adding accents. You need to use a heavier hand (I recommend using a less light opacity and flow) and make conscious decisions about why these details are where you place them. What you really don't want to do is go around sprinkling a bit of this and a bit of that to taste. Use edges a lot more as well and look at some of the Iccup maps as an inspiration (Sungsu Crossing and Rhinelands are great maps for a more natural look, and they have some other good examples of more techy maps like Pawn). | ||
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
On February 04 2011 16:03 sob3k wrote: Here is the problem: You went about texturing starting with a base texture that was applied over the entire map and then sprayed additional textures around on top of it. This isn't how well textured maps are made because the results almost always look spotty and messy. The odd blue spots are particularly....prominent. Why are they there? Why do they just look like a dude with a can of spraypaint spritzed them there. + Show Spoiler + You need to texture with a different mindset. Start with laying down a a few different base textures for some different "zones" of the map. Maybe one base texture for the main and nat, one for the center and third, and maybe another for the raised areas in the center, its your decision. Lay these down thick, then after the map has been "zoned", concentrate on blending the areas and adding accents. You need to use a heavier hand (I recommend using a less light opacity and flow) and make conscious decisions about why these details are where you place them. What you really don't want to do is go around sprinkling a bit of this and a bit of that to taste. Use edges a lot more as well and look at some of the Iccup maps as an inspiration (Sungsu Crossing and Rhinelands are great maps for a more natural look, and they have some other good examples of more techy maps like Pawn). Those blue spots must be plants, did I placed them in random/bad locations? Here's how I texture (after making the map's layout): -Fill different areas i.e. the mains, the naturals, the middle, etc each with a different texture. -Add other textures on too of them to create a unique feel. The map does look similar in areas, but upon closer inspection it is not similar. The middle and the plateaus vary from the natural, mains, and thirds. They are all different. I'm going to use a different title set if I make a new version, I'm not really feeling it for this lighting and title set. I feel like my blending skills are okay, but could use improvement. Fusing metal with organic textures is really hard for me to do. I use the metal like an organic texture, which obviously doesn't work. There are not a lot of rough edges on this map, I understand what you mean by that. I can try to fix it, but right now I'm a bit discouraged with the map and may return to it later or just remake it. | ||
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No0n
United States355 Posts
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
 I feel like tanks are a little too powerful around the natural, but you can fight it before they get into that position. It definitely favours terran against zerg on certain spawns though. About the textures, they come off as willy nilly. I also suffer from too light a touch. I find it's helpful to put down an extreme version of what you're planning and then work backwards. It helps your eyes adjust to the idea. The textures here look bland and unkempt without particular attention, even though it might not have been meant that way. You might use more doodads as queues for what to expect out of a given area, it could help keep a light touch but make the whole thing appear more cohesive. Also the lighting would definitely have an effect. Overall it doesn't look bad at all in game though, it just comes off as unrefined. | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/6yR7d.jpg) keep the non standard color theme you got going on though. | ||
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Overview] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jBGBO.jpg) I tried texturing differently, and it took a lot more time so I hope this version is better. It is positioned slightly differently which created more air space behind the mains (the corners) and overall increased map size. The plateaus are slightly smaller and the ramps are positioned facing towards the expansions, with the exception of the one that faces the middle. The natural choke is now 10 units wide instead of 9 units wide. Everything else remains the same. 140x140 Ulaan Title Set Rush Distances: Unknown (larger than on Noon Hill 1.8 probably) This isn't on B.net, but I'd still like to hear what everyone thinks, especially about the textures. | ||
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monitor
United States2409 Posts
In general though, its missing a dimension somehow... I think if you made the 3rd on lowground, it would help the map in general because-- -tanking the natural would be a bit harder -make 3rds slightly harder to hold -add dynamics to the map | ||
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
On February 06 2011 02:36 monitor wrote: That looks a lot better. In general though, its missing a dimension somehow... I think if you made the 3rd on lowground, it would help the map in general because-- -tanking the natural would be a bit harder -make 3rds slightly harder to hold -add dynamics to the map exactly what I thought! i'd try it. on texturing: it looks much better now. try to define different tones for different zones or levels. take a look at MudRock (very prominent design feature here) or also Shrike (violet on level3, warm grey on level2, blue, cold grey on level1) | ||
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