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Hello TL
I'm a pretty crappy Platinum player, and i switched from zerg to terran a few weeks ago. Thanks to you all i feel that i start to understand the basics, but I just got rolled, in a game that i feel i should have won, because of drops.
I had my opponent contained, I was on two bases he was on one, but i'm just completely lost when it comes to defend drops, or runbys. As zerg because of my mobility and overlord/creep vision they were quite easy to spot and stop, but with my immobile tank viking army, i just dont know what to do
Here is the replay :
Any tips? I know that at my level macro is everything, but, its pretty hard to keep up when i'm losing all my SCVs 3 times per game :/
Edit: The title says TvT because this of this particular game, but its pretty much the same for me againt warp prism harrass and zerg drops or runbys :/
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Ok, I watched the replay. Of course, your macro can be improved (you lost of lot of SCVs in the attack but I don't think you kept up production of them in the mid-game. Also, you were using only 1 SCV per gas in your natural).
After you beat back your opponent's proxy, you decided to push in to his base and actually almost won. But if you try and do a contain, you'll always run the risk of getting dropped. The only advice I can give you is to keep some troops in your base. For instance, 1 tank would've shut down the helion harass.
To defend drops in general, you need to keep some of your troops mobile. For instance, you can siege up a couple of tanks to defend your front, but the rest is up on your ramp to defend against drops.
If you're not confident in this kind of play, you may want to switch up your TvT build. For instance, I used to struggle against drops in TvT previously. Now, I play viking/banshee/marine which does well against drops.
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I didn't watch, but if you feel you have a contain on and you're ahead. don't be afraid to take a third and put TURRETS!!! around the map. They aren't to kill drops, they are to spot them, and deter them before theycome.
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also didnt watch replay =), but i belive sensor towers will help u out
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Yeh, i had this problem as well, but as it has allready been suggested. Sensonr towers arround the map will help A LOT!!, also a few turrets here and there will help a lot as well.
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Hey Bob, I watched your replay and made a video reviewing it. I'm doing it for my video series which I call HardCorey QuestionTime. I talked about how to deal with those damn drops (early and late game), how to be more aggressive, and how important those vital upgrades like stim and combat shields are.
Heres the Link: HardCorey QuestionTime #12: TvT Defending Drops as Terran
My Main Thread
Hope This Helps, -HardCorey
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Just watched your replay real fast, after having lost only a few SCVs to the first drop, you should just remain mindful potential for an additional drop, there were a few things you could do to handle those drops as, or at least be a little more prepared for them...
1. Place a supply depot over in that expansion to the north of him in order to spot any drops coming earlier, that and having control of the xel'naga you'll be able to see it early, and worst case scenario he takes out the supply depot but it allows you to prepare to defend against his drop. (same thing goes with the expansion to the south of your main)
Note: Placement clearly varies on map to map, just need to look at the map and think, if I wanted to sneak a medivac in what route would I take, and hide that depot off in that direction (out of the range of a xel'naga tower)
2. You can also place a supply depot behind the tall grass by your expansion, this only allows you a little bit more time to react, and requires you to pay extremely close attention to the minimap, if you watch the replay you can see his drop ship is visible on your minimap for a while, and then sits for a bit, that's just going to come with getting more used to paying attention to it so that you can react, just don't get too comfortable watching your army sit outside his base, always be mindful of what else is going on. Edit: Or what COULD be going on.
Other then that, to deal with the hellions and lose less SCVs there is a great post about how to spread SCVs.... Here. In order to lose as few as possible just in case you haven't checked that out.
But as far as the drops just place supply depots, or even sensor towers around to prepare for them, as you feel less comfortable with dealing with them place more around the map until you start to get more comfortable with handling them, at which point you can start to reduce the amount of supply depots you hide around the map or sensor towers you use, but don't be afraid to spend those extra minerals on things like that if it's what you're having trouble with.
Hope that helps a bit.
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Vikings shut down medivacs so hard it's funny, and the fact that you have them will discourage your opponent from trying drops, and even enable you to make your own since you can shoot down his vikings.
If you haven't got any vikings, it's pretty hard to stop drops. The best secondary option is missile turrets, but they're pretty localized and you can't cover everywhere. Stimmed marines are great at killing dropships, but your enemy is never going to drop in places where your marines can get to them in time. Thors have the same issue, but they are even slower, and their damage against medivacs (which are armored) is terrible.
If you're really getting dropped hard it might be worthwhile getting a sensor tower. Sensor towers give you so much warning about incoming drops or anything else that you have more than enough time to move even units as slow as thors into position. They are a lot of gas, though, which is unfortunate since they don't detect or provide any vision. In general you don't want to be forced to build sensor towers.
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Sry I wasnt able to watch the replay but Sensor towers and maybe a line of missile turrets can defend against drops espacially on maps like Lost Temple where it is easy to surround your base with a couple of turrets
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Ok, watching the rep right now and will edit it.
You really need to get into the habit of watching your minimap. The first dropship at around 9:30 hovered over your building expo, and you send a tank and 2 marines down the map, completely ignoring it. Attacking hellions with scvs is rather unfortunate, but i suppose you learned that :D Generally if i expect drops in any way (and setting up a contain is begging vor drops, so you HAVE to be prepared in that case), i will park one siege tank by my CC in the main, with a turret next to it so the opponent cant just drop on the siege tank. Its also a good idea to send 1-2 marines around the map (especially on xelnaga caverns, because there are expos in the most used flight pattern you should check anyway, and the watch tower cover basically everything else where anything could fly over)
Edit : Ok, so he dropped you again and again , and everytime with hellions, and all you had were 4 marines at max. You having 2 bases doesn´t mean anything if he has double your worker count. You have to do SOMETHING. A tank there, a bunker, leave something there that does not simply die to 2-4 hellions. You can also build a few turrets, but they won´t help you much when you have nothing else there. Watch your minimap, and if you set up a contain, prepare for drops, if you dont set up a contain but scout scout any sign of a medivac anyway, prepare for drops.
You also had a medivac, a tank and a marine at the oppenents gold idle for ... pretty much the whole time till he broke the contain. The could have been useful in pushing further, or could have defended against the drops. You forgot about them They were probably all like "Woah, nice chilling around here, good i don´t have to fight". (I´´m wondering right now how this game could potentially be a whole 20 minutes longer, but i´ll see)
Edit 2 : Ok, game was longer than expected, mostly due to your opponent overestimating your forces and deciding to just dont kill you.
Regarding the big drop in your main : -You should still have that one tank or whatever there. The longer a tvt goes, the greater the danger of getting 12 marauder dropped in your main, destroying every production facility in .. seconds, basically. Build turrets in the main flight paths to kill a part of the drop if your opponent is sloppy, or at least force a path that gives you more time to react. As your opponent did not have any vikings, as he switched to marauders because he wouldnt get the superior viking count anyway, you could have had a few vikings patrolling also. Sensor towers tvt lategame are also insane good, and if you have the gas (put scvs back into gas after drops, dont forget it ! it loses you games if you forget it !) AND look at your minimap regularly, you should see every enemy movement into your territory and be able to prepare accordingly.
Generally : You use marines to your tanks as mineral dump and to protect. UPGRADE THEM ! You had no addons whatsoever since the first techlab was killed in minute 5 or so. No 10 hp upgrade, no stim, no armor, no weapons (did you even have a ebay ? dont think so). You will build a LOT of marines, they are worth upgrading !
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Wow, didn't expect this much useful advices, thanks everybody, i'm gonna try all this as soon as i get home :D
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Get used to the flight paths that voidrays, dropships and other flying things take to attack your base in a game on every map (eg. jungle basin and xel naga caverns they tend to fly over the side expansions, on DQ they tend to fly over the gold expansions). Stick a marine underneath these paths and have a group of vikings or just your general army ready to go attack the drops.
When you have a decent contain, a T will either bust the contain (or whittle and then bust it), drop you, or banshee you. Remember that drops only work well if you don't see them coming, so good map control via stray marines over the map at each expansion + common dropship flight paths + control of xel naga towers = a greater chance at not being caught out of position with your army.
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