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I am not a great player, but enjoy the game, cruising around the top-5 in my bronze division with about 90 games played.
I have noticed certain trends and patterns.
First of all, let me say that the majority of my match ups are against top bronze players with 150+ games. Most of them have twice as many games as me, and while they must have some flaws in their game and have not advanced to silver (or were demoted), they are good at certain things.
In general, the level of play has increased from a month ago. I could rush-bust 60% of people at release, now everyone has figured out how to defend a rush. I am also starting to see some semi-competent harass and micro. Unfortunately I am not playing as much so I am stuck behind the wall of 150+ game bronze players with competent macro.
One of the things I have noticed is that most players of a certain race play particular maps the same way. What I mean is that if I match against a Terran on Lost Temple, it is guaranteed to be a siege fest. (I am terran too) Defensive play rewards on this map. Just get enough ground forces to repel the first attack, line the ridge with tanks, and then mass air and expand.
What I mean is that rather than scouting, responding, and attacking, people have figured out how to defend a certain map, and utilize the same "play". Im just not seeing the same variety I used to see.
I have also found that 10 times out of 10, on Scrap Station, zerg will wall with spine crawlers and then mass mutas. My goal is to scout and make sure they are not massing lings/roaches and attempt to rush with MM before they get the SCs up.
Rather than developing good "skills", I have noticed that people are starting to customize their play to the map they are on. There is very little scouting, just defensive builds that have a good chance of success on a particular map.
In general, most players at this level are turtles. Zerg, Protoss, and Terran alike. I dont see development in response to certain units, most just wall up, mass BCs, Ultras, or Carriers/Void Rays, when given the chance, and then wait for their opponent to push.
This creates a problem for me as a player who likes to rush, sieze an advantage and then keep pushing. It seems that the game is now more about macro and patience, no one is willing to take any risks, just mass a big blob and wait.
I really hate the fact that games are taking longer.
There isnt much cheese at top of bronze. I play custom games and see it all the time from platinum and diamond players. All the time.
The game seems to be resolving into a simple decision matrix.
If I am TvP on map X, then I open with Y, because I know they are likely to play Z.
....
....
and so on.
I see it play out the same in 90% of games.
But there really isnt much improvisation going on in the mid-game. They just mass as much shit as they can, hope for an economic advantage. I try to figure out ways to fubar their expansions, but attacking and macroing is harder than turtling and macroing.
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How can you sound this intelligent and be stuck in bronze? I understand being in bronze if you are new, but if you spend some time watching replays (and copying) you should be out in no time. Even without any apm/mechanics.
Honestly just find a good build order for each match up and refine it in practice games against comp until you can decently execute it. Then do it over and over in bronze and you will be out in no time.
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Not to be a douche or anything, but it's bronze league.
I'm not sure what your expecting.
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well maybe if you didn't rush and tried to work on playing a bit more of an economic game then you might not be stuck in bronze league. :\
edit: to clarify economic game doesn't mean turtling, get an expansion up and etc and doing harass then pushing in.
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If your opponents are always doing the same things on certain maps, it should be easy for you to find a strategy to circumvent them.
For example if your opponent is spine crawlering off on Scrap Station (you expect Mutas), just get a reactored Starport and start massing vikings. You should be able to get out ~4 vikings before his Mutas pop and completely fuck all of his overlords, supply-blocking him. Use this time to make even more Vikings and get some tanks so you can siege his Spines. Push his base with 8 Vikings and marine/tank - should be an easy win.
OR just expand ASAP and mass turrets everywhere. Then he'll be stuck turtled into his one base, heavily invested into harass units that cannot do any damage, while you have two bases and haven't wasted any gas.
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Post a replay and someone will tell you why you are stuck in bronze.
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One thing I'd do is check the profiles of the people I'm playing. Make sure they're bronze first, to make sure the trends are properly developing in the Bronze league and it's not just you matching up against the occasional Silver/Gold leaguer. Otherwise I'm not too surprised turtling is very common - it's probably the easiest way to play, the check-list approach to defense. Thinking: I need to worry about this, this, this, this and this. So I made this, this, this, and this and suddenly I'm safe from everything.
If you're looking to punish a turtling player, look for ways in. Try using MMM to do drops in the back of their base, or if they're bad with managing detection, a nuke would probably crack them wide open. If they're turtling hard on one base, expand yourself. If they're expanding you can probably nip away at it, very very few defenses are impregnable, especially at that level I imagine.
If you're fighting TvT, for example, and they've ringed their base around with turrets and are going mass BC (Scan is an incredible scouting tool), get a bunch of vikings - they eat BCs alive.
This creates a problem for me as a player who likes to rush, sieze an advantage and then keep pushing. It seems that the game is now more about macro and patience, no one is willing to take any risks, just mass a big blob and wait.
Try and refine your timings a little. Find ways to cut corners and get some units out a little bit faster. One of the best ways I've found to improve is to watch a lot of Starcraft. See what builds the pros are doing and try to work out why they're doing them. In the early game, one or two more units can really swing the balance. If it fails, fall back, or deny them an expansion if they're relying on static defense like spine crawlers. Look towards siege tanks to break their turtling.
Hope some of this is somewhat helpful :D
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I can't tell if this thread is a joke or not... "Top of Bronze"?
No offense, 'cause I totally understand that not everyone is experienced/skilled at RTS, but you really can't expect much better play from people at that level. If they are so predictable, you should be able to see right through them, win the games and move up to a more entertaining league.
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With all the defensive play, early expanding seems very powerful against the opponents you are seeing. You seem like a pretty intelligent player, you should be able to find some weaknesses in the builds. Without looking at specifics, you might have success with something like an 18cc into a siege tank contain to starve them out, finishing with slowing creeping siege in, or if you way out base them, throwing money at the problem, or finishing with a high tech push. If you want the game to go faster, perhaps try some harassment instead of a push. Hellion dropping is quite effective, as are reapers against zerg, and banshee against protoss. Also, at lower leagues, I think a solid strategy or plan is going to benefit you more than sheer volume of games played.
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On September 01 2010 12:16 Kolvacs wrote:
Not to be a douche or anything, but it's bronze league.
I'm not sure what your expecting.
agree.
dont want to be the "diamond pro" laughing at the "bronze noobs"
but most people at bronze are not very efficient and unelss we are given a replay we seriously can't judge anything.
There could be heavy macro mistakes in both parties that lead to an obscured gameplay.
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On September 01 2010 12:20 Uranium wrote:
edit: Don't know why I assumed you play Terran.
Probably because OP stated he plays Terran? =p
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On September 01 2010 12:15 dacthehork wrote:
How can you sound this intelligent and be stuck in bronze?.
Mechanics.
I spent my first 100 games in the beta in copper, back when copper still existed.
I was so excited to play SC2 when I heard about the beta that I tried getting into brood war during my wait. I massed games of brood war. Played hundreds. Never made it past D- on iccup. Of course, it also occurred to me that many of the D and above level brood war players had been playing brood war for...Quite some time!
My mechanics in SC2 were also my limiting factor. It's easy to be limited by mechanics. Intelligence and mechanics have nothing to do with each other, but BOTH are requisite for high level play.
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Being in the lower leagues is less about strategy and more about mechanics.
Turtling in the lower leagues is natural, as most people aren't confident/comfortable with their ability to multitask effectively.
You seem to be competent enough in your analysis of whats going on, so just focus on your macro/multitasking.
I'm sure you'll eventually move up the ranks. GL!
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most new players have a tendency to turtle up and not push out until they have a huge ass army
they're just scared to move out and lose everything
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On September 01 2010 12:15 dacthehork wrote:
How can you sound this intelligent and be stuck in bronze? I understand being in bronze if you are new, but if you spend some time watching replays (and copying) you should be out in no time. Even without any apm/mechanics.
Honestly just find a good build order for each match up and refine it in practice games against comp until you can decently execute it. Then do it over and over in bronze and you will be out in no time.
intelligence doesent dictate sc skill lol.
Also i know u like short rush based games but i find no beauty in them. when u get better you realize how tough and how much more skill it takes to play a solid macro game over a short rush game
also macro games are not turtling and building a massive blob. Its the art of holding of with the bare minimium until a late game plan.
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The title of this thread made me laugh out loud so much :D
Just sounds so epic doesn't it: "In Bronze... trends are emerging."
Hehe was pleasantly surprised to find it was an intelligent post and actually a pretty good read, thanks OP 
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Interesting to see this - but about what I expected really. It's how I used to play when I was probably around bronze skill level - turtle and tech + mass, and hope for the best lol
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Cool post, but pretty much any rts games are a turtle fest at the lower levels of play.
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pros adapt their play to the map as well. If you like being the aggressor, there are smart and safe ways to be aggressive. The chances of you just outright beating someone in the first few minutes of the game will shrink, but as you learn you will be able to put yourself at an advantage to be used later in the game.
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On September 01 2010 12:16 Kolvacs wrote:
Not to be a douche or anything, but it's bronze league.
I'm not sure what your expecting.
He's saying people are defending more, and thus it's harder to be aggressive. He's also saying Bronze players are somewhat more organized than before, having an actual plan and getting certain composition for certain matchups. At bronze, I would expect people doing random shit without any clue. I'd expect the turtling -> tech part, but I wouldn't things like the map trends that the OP talks about
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EPT
