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Since Patch 9 has been released, I've dicked around with the editor and made a few maps. Aside from a quick recreation of BGH, most more experiments to see what the answers to questions ("What would make a map without a choke work?", "What would make a map without a natural work?", "What would an Island map function like in SC2?"), rather than serious attempts at making a quality map. Not this one. Ladies (lol) and gentlemen of TL, I present to you, Shipka.
+ Show Spoiler [Map Overview] +![[image loading]](http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4333/shipka.png) Originally conceptualized as a four-player map (Until a cliff bug forced an asymentry I couldn't replicate), Shipka's most striking feature is the abundance of expansions and resources, particularly the middle high ground, which contains no less than three potential expansion areas and commands control over two others. Note the four Xel Naga Watch Towers. ![[image loading]](http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1832/shipka6.png) Also notable are the corner triple gas expansions, designed to be difficult to hold considering the rewards reaped. ![[image loading]](http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2132/shipka5.png) The mains are well stocked, including an extra mineral-only and a super-easy natural. In addition, they're also relatively easily defended, with a small-ish choke and little moat things to limit entry points for reaper harass. This isn't the best picture to showcase this, but the entire backside of the mains are susceptible to cliffwalking units, so you'll need to keep an eye on that. ![[image loading]](http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3522/shipka2.png) The rush/scouting distances are pretty short, but also very narrow making larger pushes along this way completely inadviseable, as your opponent will have an easy time defending with siege tanks or baneling traps or pretty much any ranged unit on the cliffs overlooking the funneled path. Also, note the two Watch Towers, further compounding the defender's advantage. ![[image loading]](http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8201/shipka3.png) The push distance, on the other hand, is incredibly long, but much safer for a large ground army, and allows you to secure several expansions as you push. Note the two watchtowers again, but this time placed in positions that award offense instead of defense. ![[image loading]](http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1554/shipka4.png)
I haven't done too much beautification to the map outside messing with the water a little and doing some basic texturing. Aesthetics aside, what do you guys think? And how can I improve it, keeping in mind it's supposed to be a large map that rewards good mechanical macro/expanding and good defensive placement.
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This is easily my favourite map I've seen for SC2 yet.
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I see ur loving all the hills but just so u know they do nothing in sc2. it would look cleaning with just just high/low ground not so many different elevations. i could be wrong
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The blocks everywhere make me want to gouge my eyes out.
Reminds me of my kids playing roblox.
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On April 27 2010 09:26 Entertaining wrote:
I see ur loving all the hills but just so u know they do nothing in sc2. it would look cleaning with just just high/low ground not so many different elevations. i could be wrong
They do plenty! Even without the miss chance in Brood War, they still restrict movement to almost all ground units, and any place where the elevation changes by 2 all at once restricts movement to all ground units. Some of the high ground is added intentionally as a sight blocker (For example, to keep it from being too easy to tank your opponents mineral line at his 4th/5th, after you've taken his triple gas), and if worst comes to worst, some enterprising players have already managed to recreate the high ground miss chance with triggers. If it's absolutely necessary, I can add those triggers to this map.
On April 27 2010 09:28 Lollersauce wrote:
The blocks everywhere make me want to gouge my eyes out.
Reminds me of my kids playing roblox.
At the expansions on the right? I know. I've messed around and tried to make them look more "natural" but it's tough considering they already lack space. As for the mains/middle/corners, those are intended to have a "man made" feel to them.
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this is a silly map, i can only imagine the kinds of games that would be played on this map...
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On April 27 2010 09:39 Crazazyasian1337 wrote:
this is a silly map, i can only imagine the kinds of games that would be played on this map...
"Silly" doesn't give me a point of reference to begin improving. As for the types of games, nobody can be sure yet since we can't actually play this against each other, but it's intended to be something of a "macro map" with a long push distance and many expansions, which I've heard numerous complaints that SC2 is lacking.
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I find this map interesting. It sets itself apart with the high gas expo and the many expansions. Personally i would love playing on it and giving it a go. I do think it looks too artificial where as i like maps that are symmetrical and all but have a natural look, like nature did it(this is probably done by adding trees and making ledges less straight and such). But i think since you didn't do the beautification part, thats probably why. Great map.
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I really like the complexity of it but man that is a lot of expansion area. So many gold minerals and strange expo areas.
I'll give you that it is very creative and unique. I could see a lot of bawler games come out of it. Not sure how well balanced it would be though. Zerg could be at a disadvantage due to all the cliffs but also at an advantage because scouting all those expos for hidden hatches could be problematic I think.
Overall I think it's a very technical map if not a little over filled but I don't know if that's a bad thing or not.
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Interesting map but i dont know if i like the idea of 3 high yields in the middle. Also adding somewhat of a mineral only expo inside your main so its easier to defend than your natural but then you have 2 ramps. I would try maybe only 1 ramp that leads into your natural. Just my 2 cents.
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Just looking at the map I can't imagine any mid-game pushes happening. Gigantic walk distance and very well-fortified bases. Also, little to no reason to push because the 3rd is taken so easily. Considering how turtle-y the game seems to be already, this may be a pretty boring map to spectate.
Also, the triple-resource expansions are something that would need playtesting, but what is any one man going to do with 6 extra geysers?
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On April 27 2010 09:51 pzea469 wrote:
I find this map interesting. It sets itself apart with the high gas expo and the many expansions. Personally i would love playing on it and giving it a go. I do think it looks too artificial where as i like maps that are symmetrical and all but have a natural look, like nature did it(this is probably done by adding trees and making ledges less straight and such). But i think since you didn't do the beautification part, thats probably why. Great map.
Yeah, the expansions on the right are a bit on an eyesore. I'll try to figure out a way to fix them without eating up too much room...
On April 27 2010 09:56 OverKillv7 wrote:
I really like the complexity of it but man that is a lot of expansion area. So many gold minerals and strange expo areas.
I'll give you that it is very creative and unique. I could see a lot of bawler games come out of it. Not sure how well balanced it would be though. Zerg could be at a disadvantage due to all the cliffs but also at an advantage because scouting all those expos for hidden hatches could be problematic I think.
Overall I think it's a very technical map if not a little over filled but I don't know if that's a bad thing or not.
I was actually worried that the map may make Zerg a bit too strong, considering to doubleramp into the main, the abundance of places to nydus worm into, and the ease with which Zerg has access to air units. I suppose their lack of cliff-walking units makes up for that to some extent, but I don't forsee too many colossus-only or reaper-only armies anytime soon...
I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing either. It certainly serves as a contrast to, say, Steppes Of War. I guess we won't know until we get to play it.
On April 27 2010 09:58 SC2Phoenix wrote:
Interesting map but i dont know if i like the idea of 3 high yields in the middle. Also adding somewhat of a mineral only expo inside your main so its easier to defend than your natural but then you have 2 ramps. I would try maybe only 1 ramp that leads into your natural. Just my 2 cents.
The 3 high yeilds in the middle may seem a bit excessive, I suppose, especially considering how important the middle area is strategically. I'll look into this. I'm considering bumping it down to two, and demoting the high yeilds to the east of the middle to regular expansions.
I was considering that, but it should still be possible to wall-off in front of the natural. Once we get to play test it, I'll see how the timings work out.
On April 27 2010 10:02 McCain wrote:
Just looking at the map I can't imagine any mid-game pushes happening. Gigantic walk distance and very well-fortified bases. Also, little to no reason to push because the 3rd is taken so easily. Considering how turtle-y the game seems to be already, this may be a pretty boring map to spectate.
Also, the triple-resource expansions are something that would need playtesting, but what is any one man going to do with 6 extra geysers?
Is the game turtle-y already? I've often heard complaints that the positional play and the defenders advantage have vanished from SC2. Considering most battles I've fought in SC2 take place in either mine or my opponent's main, I'd tend to agree with those claims.
As for the six geysers...I admit I don't exactly know. I don't see anybody taking them all at once. I may reduce it to five or four. At the moment, the corner expansions are something of a counterweight to the free mineral only expansion inside the mains and the leftmost expansions which only have one geyser.
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love the map.
id say that the cliff going behind the nat really encourages harassment from colossi, siege tanks, and even blinking stalkers. Cant wait to play on it one day. =D
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looks boring 
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Wow...this map is so imbalanced x]
Cliffs all over the third/natural = Terran seige tank orgasm. In addition, the incredibly easy to secure third will really favor Protoss as they can start pumping massive amounts of high-tech units incredibly fast. Yes, the natural is a mineral-only, but even then Protoss will have an edge.
Additionally, the mix-mineral expos are very easy to hold. This is usually not a good idea as, again, it will greatly favor Protoss and to a lesser extent Zerg. But mostly Protoss because Protoss requires less units to defend small areas and these mix-mineral expos have pretty small chokes.
Additionally, the triple gas expos are...an interesting concept. Again, I feel like these types of expos will be incredibly imbalanced. It gives Terrans an easier time pumping Seige Tanks which are already going to be a nightmare on this map. Furthermore, they are easier to hold than you think. The single choke leading to the expo makes it very easy to defend.
The 3 and 9 expos are interesting and I have no complaints here.
The center expo is somewhat odd, but again, not too hard to defend. The choke leading to it is wider than the other ones, but it's still very defensible, which is bad as this expo is VERY rewarding. The expos that are adjacent to the triple gold one is again, interesting but better designed as it's more open with two chokes.
Basically, due to the LARGE amount of chokes and cliffs on this map Terrans will have orgasms with their siege tanks and Thor (drops). The map balance/favor goes like this:
Terran>>>Protoss>>Zerg
Orgasmically great map for Terran. a good map for Protoss, and Zerg gets fucked.
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On April 27 2010 10:09 blahman3344 wrote:
love the map.
id say that the cliff going behind the nat really encourages harassment from colossi, siege tanks, and even blinking stalkers. Cant wait to play on it one day. =D
Well, there's a bit of a moat, so there's a restricted point of entry on the cliffs. Except for blink, I suppose. I didn't consider that. Hopefully it's the right balance of easy to harass and easy to defend.
On April 27 2010 10:35 bakedace wrote:looks boring
What would you like to see changed?
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On April 27 2010 11:02 Ryuu314 wrote:
Wow...this map is so imbalanced x]
I guess we won't know that until we've had a chance to play it. We don't really have a point of reference within SC2 to compare it to.
On April 27 2010 11:02 Ryuu314 wrote:
Cliffs all over the third/natural = Terran seige tank orgasm. In addition, the incredibly easy to secure third will really favor Protoss as they can start pumping massive amounts of high-tech units incredibly fast. Yes, the natural is a mineral-only, but even then Protoss will have an edge.
I don't know if extra sources of minerals favor the Protoss more than the other races. Since Terran armies are primarily marine/marauder they're very mineral demanding, and the zerg have a fantastic mineral-sink in making a ton of zerglings, and in making extra hatcheries and queens to keep up unit production.
On April 27 2010 11:02 Ryuu314 wrote:
Additionally, the mix-mineral expos are very easy to hold. This is usually not a good idea as, again, it will greatly favor Protoss and to a lesser extent Zerg. But mostly Protoss because Protoss requires less units to defend small areas and these mix-mineral expos have pretty small chokes.
There are two mixed-mineral expos. Which do you mean? The ones along the right are meant to be fairly safe-ish, but are tankable/cliffable and vulnerable to air and drops. The ones along the top/bottom are fairly detached from the safety of the players "corner" with his main. If the chokes between 7/11 positions and the wide push lane need to be widened, I'd be more than willing to. Those chokes are a product of accident rather than design.
On April 27 2010 11:02 Ryuu314 wrote:
Additionally, the triple gas expos are...an interesting concept. Again, I feel like these types of expos will be incredibly imbalanced. It gives Terrans an easier time pumping Seige Tanks which are already going to be a nightmare on this map. Furthermore, they are easier to hold than you think. The single choke leading to the expo makes it very easy to defend.
But once you get past that choke, almost any ranged unit can take shots at all six geysers without needing to advance very far in. I think with the way the cliffs are set up, it will take more effort to hold than it will to raid.
On April 27 2010 11:02 Ryuu314 wrote:
The 3 and 9 expos are interesting and I have no complaints here.
Really? The more I look at my creation, the more I'm wanting to touch up the 3 positions...
On April 27 2010 11:02 Ryuu314 wrote:
The center expo is somewhat odd, but again, not too hard to defend. The choke leading to it is wider than the other ones, but it's still very defensible, which is bad as this expo is VERY rewarding. The expos that are adjacent to the triple gold one is again, interesting but better designed as it's more open with two chokes.
The chokes on the expansions adjecent to the middle are relatively tiny, though. The center becomes increasingly vulnerable as the player who pushes takes control of the left side of the map. In order to maintain a grip on the center, a player needs to control AT LEAST a majority of the map already.
On April 27 2010 11:02 Ryuu314 wrote:
Basically, due to the LARGE amount of chokes and cliffs on this map Terrans will have orgasms with their siege tanks and Thor (drops). The map balance/favor goes like this:
Terran>>>Protoss>>Zerg
Orgasmically great map for Terran. a good map for Protoss, and Zerg gets fucked.
I'm not sure Zerg will get fucked. They have easy access to all the resources they'll need and plenty of opportunities to abuse the Nydus Worm, which has up until now been neglected considering what a badass mechanic it is. I don't think Terrans will quite have the manpower to hold everything you think they can at the same time. Also keep in mind how mind-rapingly awesome Zerg Air is in SC2, and if there's one type of unit that loves cliffs almost as much as siege tanks, it's air units.
I think all these balance concerns will prove themselves to be either with or without merit once we can start testing, but you've given me a lot to think about. I may remove pathing from some of the cliffs.
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EPT
