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Braavos36401 Posts
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This is a poll to determine which scoring system is more popular. Feel free to discuss how to improve the FPL system here.
1. "Old" Scoring System - 09-10 PL R1
Win = 2, Loss = -1, Lineup = 1, Ace Selection = 2, Ace W/L = 2/0, Team Win = 1
Original scoring values Lineup and TW. Also doesn't penalize weak players for getting picked as Ace Match. This structure puts value on Ace Selections and makes ace players from bad teams viable options and mediocre players from good teams an OK selection because TW gives them a real boost.
2. "New" Scoring System - 09-10 PL R2
Win = 4, Loss = -2, Lineup = 0, Ace Selection = 2, Ace W/L = 4/0, Team Win = 1
More emphasis on Win/Loss and less on Lineup and TW. Thus, your Anti-Team picks can go positive. We thought this system would turn into more of a "merit based" system, but it turned into rewarding the elite players even more (no more lineup and team wins). This isn't good because it means teams are less diverse (less non "top tier" players). This probably puts too much weight on ace players too, but we're not sure if TL users enjoyed this system more than the original.
3. Hybrid Scoring System - ??
Win = ??, Loss = ??, Lineup = ??, Ace Selection = ??, Ace W/L = ??/??, Team Win = ??
Possible hybrid arrangement, propose your own and give reasons.
Thanks for your feedback! Signups will be open soon.
Poll: Fantasy Proleague System?
(Vote): System 1 - "Old"
(Vote): System 2 - "New"
(Vote): System 3 - Hyrbrid
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Hyrbrid! Woo!
I like the new one, though both are fine lol.
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Braavos36401 Posts
Oh I should say, the system will not 100% be chosen by this method, but we will take it into consideration.
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Baa?21245 Posts
Hybrid; I like the second system with the exception of the fact that someone who goes 1-1 with the win coming from the ace, he gets the same amount of points as someone who goes 1-0 non-ace.
That should be adjusted imo since an ace win should be worth more than a normal win, regardless of whether he lost an earlier game.
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System 2, but only if you take out the points for Ace pick.
Roro not losing points despite losing twice to JD was such a ridiculous sight that I never want to see again.
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If you are going to do the new system, you should make a team win worth 2 points, or half a player win, same as the old system for continuity's sake, and to make good teams worth picking up. Otherwise its better to take ace and get an extra point just so you can go after another top player.
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I liked the old one better, but we really need bad ace players to be punished (HELLO RORO), like +2 for ace, -1 or even -2 for ace loss.
I'd really like losses to be punished more, 9-7 players shouldn't finish with more points than 6-2 in my opinion.
Players from the main team should finish with low points if they are underperforming.
Hell in fact I should have voted hybrid, with wins and losses being the same amount of +/- points. TW and Lineup being worth 1 point each. (Hell, team loss could even be worth -1, but.... hmmm no, a good players shouldn't be THAT handicapped by his team losing, since it's not winners league)
Scores would be muuuuucccchhh tighters, but hey ! Players on a roll would be really rewarded.
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Too tired to think about hybrid system atm, but 2nd scoring system was really bad, mostly becouse of things mentioned by you.Either someone can come up with something nice in the hybrid or just stick to 1st one imo.
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Eh, I personally disliked the second one because the elite players did far, far better than other players. There was no chance in catching up if you didn't have them.
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both are a bit flawed but i cant tell whats wrong.
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I preferred the old system. The new one puts too much emphasis on ace selection, making the aces of mid-tier teams a lot more valuable than their 5-6 point peers that are on strong teams and don't get sent for ace matches. I like that smart anti-team selection can actually earn you points, but the system overall isn't worth it for less diversity in teams.
I actually think the new system would be better if ace win/loss was 4/0 and the ace selection points were removed.
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Old system is far better in terms of requiring more overall prediction skill, it's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.
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i like the old system better overall
but this poll seems really biased 
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Baa?21245 Posts
Removing ace selection points is ridiculous, a player getting picked for ace should definitely be rewarded.
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i think it'd be better if
Win = 4, Loss = -2, Lineup = 0, Ace Selection = 2, Ace W/L = 2/0, Team Win = 1
since you already get +2 points from ace selection so there's less emphasis on top tier players
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United States2186 Posts
System isn't as important as the ace part. ace losses must count as normal losses. Just looking at the stats page here shows that there were a lot of people with highly inflated ranks simply because they ended up losing in ace matches instead of normal matches. Leta being 8 points higher than Flash is nonsensical, along with Zero and Roro having very high scores despite going not that well above 50%.
http://www.teamliquid.net/fantasy/proleague/Stats.php?r=5
The ace selection bonus should also be less, not sure on 1 or 0. Guaranteed ace players (Flash, Leta, Jaedong for example) simply heavily outvalue players on teams with 'split' aces like STX, MBC, SKT1 because they have an opportunity to make major point gain (almost as much as winning the match anyway) and at worst lose nothing. This does hurt Air Force Ace and the weaker teams and hopefully at least for ace that could be alleviated with adjusting point values?
As for teams as long as they don't have the hugely inflated scoring system from the one round where the SKT1 joke team nearly won. Overly high team values make it a lot more boring when 1 out of 7 choices is so much more important than the rest.
Also are you guys going to consider changing the selection format at all? There was one idea that gave the choice of being able to pick more than 6 players but paying a -1 penalty for doing so each time. Another promising one let you overstack the anti team in exchange for getting more purchasing power, so making a 20 point anti team would give you 37 points in your main selection. Each would probably encourage a lot more diversity since so many options open up.
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i think new is "more fair", but old is "easier" to play. I voted for old, i guess that shows somethign about me
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Braavos36401 Posts
On April 06 2010 07:37 Ver wrote:System isn't as important as the ace part. ace losses must count as normal losses. Just looking at the stats page here shows that there were a lot of people with highly inflated ranks simply because they ended up losing in ace matches instead of normal matches. Leta being 8 points higher than Flash is nonsensical, along with Zero and Roro having very high scores despite going not that well above 50%. http://www.teamliquid.net/fantasy/proleague/Stats.php?r=5The ace selection bonus should also be less, not sure on 1 or 0. Guaranteed ace players (Flash, Leta, Jaedong for example) simply heavily outvalue players on teams with 'split' aces like STX, MBC, SKT1 because they have an opportunity to make major point gain (almost as much as winning the match anyway) and at worst lose nothing. This does hurt Air Force Ace and the weaker teams and hopefully at least for ace that could be alleviated with adjusting point values? As for teams as long as they don't have the hugely inflated scoring system from the one round where the SKT1 joke team nearly won. Overly high team values make it a lot more boring when 1 out of 7 choices is so much more important than the rest. Also are you guys going to consider changing the selection format at all? There was one idea that gave the choice of being able to pick more than 6 players but paying a -1 penalty for doing so each time. Another promising one let you overstack the anti team in exchange for getting more purchasing power, so making a 20 point anti team would give you 37 points in your main selection. Each would probably encourage a lot more diversity since so many options open up.
Both options are good ideas, but we currently don't have the programming manpower available to make large changes like this. Maybe for R5.
I think the biggest issue is the lack of diversity in choosing non-elite players, as everyone has some version of JD/Flash/Leta/Bisu (or whoever is good) and then some middle pointers. Its hard to devalue ace selections because this also hurts the middle/low players who get picked. Not sure how to fix this or "power up" middle tier guys. Maybe we'll just overprice the upper tier guys a lot.
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I propose Ace Selection = 0, Ace W/L = 2/0
Here is my analysis on the status quo:
Who does it reward and who does it penalize?
The current system rewards anyone who is going to be thrown out as ace. The top few teams are going to finish a lot of their rounds with 3-0 or 3-1, so they wouldn't get to send out an ace player. The bottom few teams who are going to finish a lot of their rounds with 0-3 or 1-3 are in the same boat. The teams in the middle however, are going to have an ace match nearly every time, so their ace player will be getting a lot of points. Also, players on a team with multiple good players such as STX with Kal/Calm and MBC with Light/Sea will be affected as well. Those players will have less ace matches than teams with only one good player. So under the status quo, players like Really and Leta, who are the one good player on a mediocre team, will be getting significantly more points than they deserve, while players like Kal, Calm, Sea, and Light will not be getting as many points as they should be.
Why Ace Selection = 0, Ace W/L = 2/0 is ideal
The ideal system results in every player's points being a perfect reflection of their skill. Under my system, a player like Really or Leta will have a small advantage over Kal or Light in that they have more ace matches, but Kal or Light will get more points in Team Wins. So overall, there is very little discrepancy between two equally skilled players where one is the ace player on a mediocre team, while the other is a good player on a good team. This encourages people to select players based on their skill rather than what team the player is on.
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i like the new system, it values the win a lot (and makes possible to get points with your anti-team)
perhaps an hybrid system could be the best, some fine balancing can be done. But if this next round is by the new system, it would be fine by me
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EPT
