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Well, not really life, but life-enabling molecules. Still an interesting find as it could point to clues that life may in fact exist far out there somewhere.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20100312/sc_space/lifeenablingmoleculesspottedinorionnebula
The chemical fingerprints of potentially life-building molecules have been detected in the Orion nebula by Europe's Herschel Space Observatory.
The Orion nebula is a nearby stellar nursery, brimming with gas, dust and infant stars. It is known to be one of the most prolific chemical factories in space, although the full extent of its chemistry and the pathways for molecule formation are not well understood.
Researchers have used one of Herschel's instruments, which looks at the cosmos in the far infrared wavelengths of light, to provide more insight into how organic molecules form in space.
By sifting through the pattern of spikes in Orion nebula's light signature, or spectrum, astronomers have identified a few common molecules that are precursors to life-enabling molecules, including water, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, methanol, dimethyl ether, hydrogen cyanide, sulfur oxide and sulfur dioxide. Each spike in the spectrum corresponds to a particular molecule.
"This HIFI spectrum, and the many more to come, will provide a virtual treasure trove of information regarding the overall chemical inventory and on how organics form in a region of active star formation. It harbors the promise of a deep understanding of the chemistry of space once we have the full spectral surveys available," said Edwin Bergin of the University of Michigan and the principal investigator of the HEXOS Key Program on Herschel.
Because of Herschel's unique infrared observing abilities, this new spectrum is already an improvement on previous one's taken of the Orion nebula.
"We obtained this spectrum in a few hours and it already beats any other spectrum, at any other wavelength, ever taken of Orion," said Frank Helmich, Herschel HIFI principal investigator of SRON Netherlands Institute for Space Research.
Built by the European Space Agency, Herschel launched in May 2009 on a mission to scan the universe in the far-infrared range of the spectrum. The observatory is expected to last until 2012 and has the largest single mirror ever built for a space telescope.
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
But does having all the necessary elements -> life? I'm pretty shitty at chemistry but my thinking is that having the 'materials' there doesn't necessary mean the end products will exist.
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On March 14 2010 03:47 konadora wrote:
I'm more interested in how the observatory detected the molecules.
+ Show Spoiler +By sifting through the pattern of spikes in Orion nebula's light signature, or spectrum, astronomers have identified a few common molecules that are precursors to life-enabling molecules, including water, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, methanol, dimethyl ether, hydrogen cyanide, sulfur oxide and sulfur dioxide. Each spike in the spectrum corresponds to a particular molecule.
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
Yeah I posted that before the edit
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If I remember correctly, each element emit a unique wavelength of light. I guess that's how scientists can tell apart from each molecules
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On March 14 2010 03:47 konadora wrote:
But does having all the necessary elements -> life? I'm pretty shitty at chemistry but my thinking is that having the 'materials' there doesn't necessary mean the end products will exist.
First off, that was covered in the first sentence of the OP.
Second, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis companion reading material lolo
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Is spectrum analysis so accurate as to determine the exact compounds from such a huge distance?
Also "life" is an extreme overstatement in my opinion.
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Nice! I remember when they first discovered planets that have suitable conditions for life! Making pretty quick advances in science if you ask me.
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
Doesn't many other places of the universe contain the same elements? Or is that not the case? (genuine question here, I have no knowledge about space chemistry)
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when can we live on the moon damn it!
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Well, when they use the term life, it is used very lightly for any type of life (single cell life came very quickly in our universe for example). If they find single cell life else where in the universe, then there is a good chance many million/billion of years from now their could be multi-cellular life.
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On March 14 2010 03:50 jjkxdummy wrote:
If I remember correctly, each element emit a unique wavelength of light. I guess that's how scientists can tell apart from each molecules
That's not entirely true, each element will emit absorb certain bands of light when ionized (to free electrons from their shells), and those elements will emit those same bands as the ion captures electrons into those same energy states. There's massive databases on the light signatures of different atoms and molecules, and you can check missing wavelengths for signs of absorption or spiked wavelengths for signs of capture against the database of known elements. These signatures are known as emission spectra, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emission_spectrum
Interesting story, helium was originally thought to be a metal existing only on the sun because it had a wavelength signature that was different from any known discovered element on earth (thus the name, helios = sun and ium = suffix for metals). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium#Scientific_discoveries
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Thing is, scientists can discover all of the life galaxies they are, but they need to find us a way to get there...before time is up
I am a believer in aliens, and i think that they need the same things we need (water, sunlight and all) so this is encouraging
in my opinion science needs to find a way to get us to these "life galaxies" instead of just finding them and publishing stuff about it...which is still interesting
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What?! There might be life somewhere besides our one spec of the unbelievably enormous universe?!
News to me.
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On March 14 2010 04:05 Housemd wrote:
Thing is, scientists can discover all of the life galaxies they are, but they need to find us a way to get there...before time is up
I am a believer in aliens, and i think that they need the same things we need (water, sunlight and all) so this is encouraging
in my opinion science needs to find a way to get us to these "life galaxies" instead of just finding them and publishing stuff about it...which is still interesting
You're talking as if the same group of scientists are responsible for finding life and improving transportation. What? The two issues are completely different, and the fact that these scientists found some life-related molecules doesn't mean other scientists aren't trying to develop transportation.
EDIT: And as a matter of personal opinion, getting living humans to the closest solar system, let alone a life-sustaining galaxy, seems pretty impossible. Relativistic effects help you on the front of time, but it also makes the entire universe extremely hazardous.
EDIT2: Also, science doesn't work like some sort of game where you can click "research intergalactic transportation" and have it up and running in x years. Much of the field, especially the "cutting-edge" is dependent on complete chance: without theoretical knowledge, nothing effective can be engineered. Without observation, testing, and data, no theoretical models can be made. Two hundred years ago, "chemistry" was still glorified alchemy without knowledge of discrete energy states, the existence of electrons, etc etc. What makes you think human knowledge isn't on the complete whims of chance? (sorry, "science needs to find a way to X instead of Y" just really makes me rage, especially when Y involves a lot more actual science than X)
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Nice article, but the title is completely thoroughly dead wrong. Organic molecules aren't life and definitely not *life* and the Orion nebula is definitely not in another galaxy, wtf 
Also it's not wholly unexpected since the Orion nebula is just the star-forming region in a larger molecular cloud which has traces of all kinds of organic molecules. This just confirms something a lot of scientists suspected already.
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The only way to travel farther than our solar system is through time travel. Therefore, we need the technology to "grab" light and pull it back. The speed of light is what limits our ability of time-travelling.
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On March 14 2010 03:53 barth wrote:
Is spectrum analysis so accurate as to determine the exact compounds from such a huge distance? [1]
Also "life" is an extreme overstatement in my opinion. [2]
[1] Short answer: yes.
Spectrum analysis is, in theory, a way to identify any compound. Now, the things that we can actually measure practically very easily are things like single atoms or 'small' compounds (compounds made up of a small number of different elements). So stuff like Hydrogen, Helium, Nitrogen etc. is easily identified 100% of the time. Getting into larger compounds sort of stretches the limits of computational power. The calculations required to determine what spectra a compound produces are enormous and extremely complicated (lots of very advanced quantum mechanics).
However, once you have the spectra (once you've spent your couple of weeks time on a supercomputer), you have it. You know it, and it will always be correct. The cool thing about atomic spectra is that quantum mechanics gives an enormous amount of constraints on what spectra can be produced - so each atomic configuration + energy configuration can only have a single spectra. This is why spectrum analysis can give 100% identification of a compound, assuming you've already calculated the answer and can relate it to something you've measured.
[2] It is, especially in this case. I think this particular article is overhyped. However, something that is required for basic building blocks of life exists pretty much everywhere except for regions with black holes or other extremely high-energy radiation producers - PAHs (polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons). The great thing about PAHs is that
a) They are fucking everywhere.
b) They are extremely stable.
c) They are a bit of nitrogen away from being amino acids.
So, one thing I could say about this article is this: an area with all of those great elements in particularly high abundance is definitely worth looking at. Because PAHs already exist everywhere, and having all those other nice elements already in place just makes it that much more likely that life will form there in some fashion.
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On March 14 2010 04:29 LuCky. wrote:
The only way to travel farther than our solar system is through time travel. Therefore, we need the technology to "grab" light and pull it back. The speed of light is what limits our ability of time-travelling.
That's not true either. Stop making things up. I'll go statement by statement.
"The only way to travel farther than our solar system is through time travel."
First off, the nearest star other than the sun is 4.24 light years away. That means if you travelled at 99% the speed of light, it wouldn't take that long. DEBUNKED. I'll go on though. Even if something were 150 light years away, if you traveled at a sufficient speed, time dilation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation) would make it so time goes slower in your reference frame, so you could pull it off in 80 years if you're fast enough.
"Therefore, we need the technology to "grab" light and pull it back."
You mean like a black hole? What are you talking about? The speed of light is the same constant in all reference frames, you can't change a fundamental constant of the universe with something inside the universe. DEBUNKED.
"The speed of light is what limits our ability of time-travelling."
Okay so if the speed of light were faster, then it would still be the fastest possible speed. The speed of light is a fundamental constant that's a property of the universe, and one important property of that speed is that nothing can travel faster. (except the spacetime fabric itself and entanglement-related information, apparently)
Where did you learn all this? I'm interested to hear what you think of as a credible source.
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1) That 'pull back light' post is hilarious.
2) Scientists have been pretending that finding methane in any atmosphere is a sure sign of life because they don't believe that methane can be produced without being degraded without life.
Once you learn how extrapolation and assumption heavy astrobiology is you kinda get a distaste for the entire thing. That said, as instrumentation gets better and we get more planetary samples for analysis things will shape up considerably.
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EPT
