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Active: 13221 users

Destiny - calling you out (DDoS home network)

Forum Index > Closed
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Deleted User 61629
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1664 Posts
April 08 2013 16:36 GMT
#1
--- Nuked ---
Sir.Kimmel
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States785 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 17:05:54
April 08 2013 16:58 GMT
#2
Just for the record... haha... actually being in the security business and dealing with actual DDoS attacks on a daily basis.. I just chuckled when I read his guide for the first time..

First off let's not get the terms confused

DDoS and DoS.... the fanboys targeting you Destiny Most likely.. actually 98% sure .. do not control a botnet and are not performing a true distributed attack if they are show me some logs and I will forward them to my contacts at the FBI and we'll see what happens after a few months. So let's move forward with the assumption that you are getting DoS'd because this is most likely what is happening.

The easiest and most common way to actually DoS a "Server" I'm using that word here and please note that many streamers are not running servers.. is to open a connection constantly to the system and spoof your sender address... this will cause the server to contact a fakjavascript:addUBB_selected('reply_area',%20'quote')e ip address constantly waiting for a reply..

Think of it like this.. a crazy ex girlfriend, you call her from a strange phone, and she calls you back 50 times say HEY HEY HEY HEY before finally getting upset and blowing her brains out.


Now... you being one individual.. and not hosting a server or anything that should be handling connections in that manner should not be affected.... unless you have some service or something exposed. By default your home router will not be accepting random connections.


So is there some flaw with skype that allows me to completely kill your connection once I get your ip? Probably not... so what the hell is going on... or is it just every streamer in the world just using that excuse and not really having any idea of what's going on.

Someone should PM me their logs after the suffer such a DoS and I'll take a look at it...



Why do you think DDoS is an issue?

Because dozens of people in the streaming and youtube world have had to deal with inexperienced kids DDoSing their connection offline.

It's not like you're running a web server and are spammed with GET requests on a static content (like most real DDoS happen).

You don't have to be running a webserver for someone to spam your home connection with SYN packets using a botnet.

Don't open ports you don't need, don't respond to ping requests and worst a DDoSer can do to you is spam SYNC/ANC.

Closing ports won't prevent a botnet from saturating your line. Once your line's been saturated, nothing you can do at your level will help.

Assuming even 10mbit connection, do you know how big the botnet has to be to kill your connection with just SYNC/ANC?

Not too big? I don't know the specifics, but seeing that dozens of people in the industry are hurt by these incredibly stupid/inexperienced kids kind of lends itself to the fact that these large botnets are very easily obtainable (at least for 1 minute-sustained attacks).



You can't spam a home network with Syn packets and bring it down...

[image loading]


your home router will not respond to Syn's because you are not answering connection attempts. It's as simple as that.... Maybe Skype does? I'd need to look into the traffic.... but just having an IP address.. spamming syns.. you will not take anyone out... it'll hit your router and just be dropped.

Lets throw in Canada into the mix and we can rename our country to Camerico. --Klogon
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 08 2013 17:02 GMT
#3
He's not going to take up your offer because 1. It's childish and 2. It's a huge waste of time to prove nothing but your own views (which relatively don't matter)
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Deleted User 61629
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1664 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 17:14:11
April 08 2013 17:06 GMT
#4
--- Nuked ---
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 08 2013 17:16 GMT
#5
On April 09 2013 02:06 Inori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2013 02:02 Torte de Lini wrote:
He's not going to take up your offer because 1. It's childish and 2. It's a huge waste of time to prove nothing but your own views (which relatively don't matter)

Assuming he's right and I'm wrong then it's a matter of "$15/month for stupid kids that type few words into google and push some buttons". Surely for a person with his knowledge it's easy money in no time.

And ha-ha on 1, considering only reason I had to offer the bet is because of his obnoxious ego that clouds his views on reality.


Sir.Kimmel, thanks for the lengthy response!
I may be wrong, but you can kill the connection on home router with SYN if you spam them enough so the connection gets overflooded with requests, doesn't matter if router responds or not at this point. Granted, that requires enormous botnet that nobody will sell for $15 / month.. $1,500,000 maybe


It's obvious that this bet is not to prove an informative wrong or flawed, but to attack the person who's providing it.

If he takes you up on your bet, he's enabling you that this kind of behavior is both justified and valid (which it isn't, and it's beside the intention and point of his post).

https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sir.Kimmel
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States785 Posts
April 08 2013 17:19 GMT
#6
On April 09 2013 02:06 Inori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2013 02:02 Torte de Lini wrote:
He's not going to take up your offer because 1. It's childish and 2. It's a huge waste of time to prove nothing but your own views (which relatively don't matter)

Assuming he's right and I'm wrong then it's a matter of "$15/month for stupid kids that type few words into google and push some buttons". Surely for a person with his knowledge it's easy money in no time.

And ha-ha on 1, considering only reason I had to offer the bet is because of his obnoxious ego that clouds his views on reality.


Sir.Kimmel, thanks for the lengthy response!
I may be wrong, but you can kill the connection on home router with SYN if you spam them enough so the connection gets overflooded with requests, doesn't matter if router responds or not at this point. Granted, that requires enormous botnet that nobody will sell for $15 / month.. $1,500,000 maybe



Not true... Syn floods rely on on you initiating a connection and the machine you sending the request to contacting back.. a syn flood will not affect a home router... the fact that an external source should not and cannot actively initate a connection to a router because there's nothing to connect to will prevent the attack.. you can sit here and spam my IP address all you want... my router won't even spend an ounce of effort to respond to it.

For a syn flood to work I would need to actively have a port open such as 3306, 22, anything like that, actively accepting connections... and if this is your configuration.. well you're and idiot.

Keep in mind we are specifically talking about a syn attack which is the most popular method of DoSing
Lets throw in Canada into the mix and we can rename our country to Camerico. --Klogon
Spooony
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom108 Posts
April 08 2013 17:21 GMT
#7
He's streaming now... Take down his connection now if you can.
-- "Getting Nerd Chills From Gosu Starcraft Thrills" -- MKP, DeMuslim, Sheth, Polt, Grubby &Thorzain fighting! --
Destiny
Profile Joined May 2009
United States280 Posts
April 08 2013 17:22 GMT
#8
The first two people in this thread are exactly why a guide like mine is needed. If I knew where the second guy worked, I would literally do everything in my power to make sure you were out of a fucking job. Retarded fucking dipshits like you have absolutely no place giving advice online, holy shit.

DDoS and DoS.... the fanboys targeting you Destiny Most likely.. actually 98% sure .. do not control a botnet and are not performing a true distributed attack if they are show me some logs and I will forward them to my contacts at the FBI and we'll see what happens after a few months. So let's move forward with the assumption that you are getting DoS'd because this is most likely what is happening.


The fact that you even honestly think you can knock a standard internet connection offline with a DoS means you need to kill yourself, or at least leave the field you're working in, Jesus. Kids can rent a botnet for $15/month EASILY these days, learn how to use a fucking search engine, idiot.

User was warned for this post
To achieve perfection is to sacrifice growth.
HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
April 08 2013 17:23 GMT
#9
On April 09 2013 01:36 Inori wrote:
So Destiny posted this.. something http://www.destiny.gg/n/protection-from-ddos-attacks/ on reddit.
It's about protecting against DDoS on home networks. The methods he suggests using are good for other use cases (proxy traffic), but why the f would you want to defend against DDoS on home network?


Because streamers are getting DDoS'd on their home networks, that's the entire point of the article.


On April 09 2013 01:36 Inori wrote:
I couldn't walk by knowing that somebody is wrong on the internets and spreads his "knowledge" around. I raised a few questions, which Destiny replied to in his traditional ways. So it seems that easiest way to prove my point is to offer a simple bet, which he dodged (lol).


If by his traditional ways you mean answering your questions, then yes. He answered all of your questions.

On April 09 2013 01:36 Inori wrote:

Reddit fan boys being reddit fan boys, I'm being down voted for legitimate questions, so I figured it would be more constructive to post on tl.net to get a more healthy discussion (I know there are actually qualified people to talk on this subject here, unlike reddit).


The reddit and teamliquid communities overlap heavily.

On April 09 2013 01:36 Inori wrote:
tl;dr: Destiny, I offer $50 bet that you can't take my connection down even for 5 minutes.
Either take it and prove you actually know what you're talking about or stop spreading false information amongst people that don't know any better.


You're acting like a god damn child. Seriously, you need to grow the hell up.
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
R1CH
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Netherlands10342 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 17:28:15
April 08 2013 17:25 GMT
#10
Lots of people who don't understand how the Internet or DDoS attacks work in this thread. Going to close it for the good of everyone.

TLDR: Streamers are getting DDoSed on a home connection by using Skype which leaks their IP. The type of DDoS attack is irrelevant as long as it has sufficient bandwidth to saturate the downstream. No, the attackers don't have their own botnets, they pay $20 to rent-a-botnet sites to use them for a few minutes at a time.
AdministratorTwitter: @R1CH_TL
TL+ Member
ibekaracay
Profile Joined August 2011
United States26 Posts
April 08 2013 17:25 GMT
#11
His method in no way prevents a DDoS if you have the IP. The whole idea is to prevent people from getting your IP on skype. If you somehow manage to get around it and get the actual IP address, you can still DDoS.

The reason is that most of the top streamers are getting their IPs taken from skype, so his post will be greatly helpful to those
R1CH
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Netherlands10342 Posts
April 08 2013 17:31 GMT
#12
Actually I'm gonna reopen this, can I take the bet?
AdministratorTwitter: @R1CH_TL
TL+ Member
Deleted User 61629
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1664 Posts
April 08 2013 17:32 GMT
#13
--- Nuked ---
HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
April 08 2013 17:35 GMT
#14
On April 09 2013 02:31 R1CH wrote:
Actually I'm gonna reopen this, can I take the bet?


Well this just got interesting.
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
R1CH
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Netherlands10342 Posts
April 08 2013 17:36 GMT
#15
Do you have a stream or something I can use to prove how trivial it is to interrupt a game of SC2?
AdministratorTwitter: @R1CH_TL
TL+ Member
Deleted User 61629
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1664 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 17:39:27
April 08 2013 17:37 GMT
#16
--- Nuked ---
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 17:39:44
April 08 2013 17:38 GMT
#17
5 stars this blog is fun.
also resorting to "kill urself" when someone is wrong about technical information on the internet is hilarious.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
April 08 2013 17:38 GMT
#18
On April 09 2013 02:37 Inori wrote:
Nope, I can give you my IP for you to test out before you commit to the bet: 90.191.167.138.
In fact if you take my connection down while testing I'll pay $50.


Never reveal your true name to a wizard.
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28536 Posts
April 08 2013 17:39 GMT
#19
Uh oh, R1CH has been awakened
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
April 08 2013 17:40 GMT
#20
Destiny is pretty brilliant ranting on his stream about this atm ahah.
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