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This Town Ain't Big Enough Mafia - Page 89

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Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
March 02 2013 07:35 GMT
#1761
On March 02 2013 16:31 thrawn2112 wrote:
Hapa, I'm serious, do you want to duel?


That's what I'm trying to decide right now. You're not responding to this like I would have expected scum-Thrawn to tbh.

I still can't for the life of me see why you wouldn't take the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
March 02 2013 07:44 GMT
#1762
On March 02 2013 16:35 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2013 16:31 thrawn2112 wrote:
Hapa, I'm serious, do you want to duel?


That's what I'm trying to decide right now. You're not responding to this like I would have expected scum-Thrawn to tbh.

I still can't for the life of me see why you wouldn't take the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.


Here's how it goes:

I decided they are the scummiest in the thread and both should duel. I decided that Dienosore was the scummiest. I spent the rest of the cycle trying to figure out if the idea that 2 scum would agree to a duel is a bet worth taking. I decided it wasn't, so I only lynched one of them.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
March 02 2013 07:44 GMT
#1763
Yeah fuck it Thrawn's probably town. He's not reacting to this like he would as scum at all. He was one of the first on Kei with me, and that's pretty early for the bus given the momentum on Adam.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
March 02 2013 07:45 GMT
#1764
Sniped. Sweet.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
March 02 2013 07:46 GMT
#1765
well that's depressing. now it will be 10x harder to figure out your alignment
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Snarfs
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1006 Posts
March 02 2013 07:56 GMT
#1766
On March 02 2013 16:34 Adam4167 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2013 16:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
On March 02 2013 16:25 Hapahauli wrote:
I'll answer that for him. Either I'm town, or I'm scum that decided on the brilliant strategy of bussing all of my teammates at points where it was completely unnecessary for me to do so. Uh huh.



bussing all of your teammates instantly would be the only smart way for mafia to survive this game. everyone had been calling dieno and keir scum since their first posts.



I dispute this point.

Two people were calling Deino town and 'top 4 town' at the end of N0.

Go filter dive if you cant remember who they were.

They're the two last scum by the way.

To clarify, are you referring to yamato and Acro?
Adam4167
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia1426 Posts
March 02 2013 08:00 GMT
#1767
That's correct, Snarfs.

There's no way in hell I'm seeing another cycle, so full cases will come when I get home in a couple hours.

Those two are scum. Everyone needs to put their disagreements aside and kill them first.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
March 02 2013 08:02 GMT
#1768
I still want to see Snarfs on the duel team tomorrow. Adam thinks that both Dieno defenders on Day 1 are scum, but that seems a bit too optimistic.

As for Snarfs, he basically never mentions Dieno at all in his filter. The one time he does, it's a random passing comment:
On February 26 2013 07:40 Snarfs wrote:
As of now, I'd support a Keirathi/Hapa duel. I need to read more from thrawn as it's still just a weird feeling about him, nothing concrete. I haven't read yamato's case on him yet, it was a bit too long and I didn't have time.

I agree Dein also looks flimsy but these two are my biggest concerns. Especially Keirathi's "catch up on the thread" followed by essentially mimicing + buddying marv:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2013 01:09 Keirathi wrote:
Holy thread explosion, Batman.

Sorry, I got super busy yesterday afternoon, then when I got home last night my power was out. Catching up now.


Show nested quote +
On February 26 2013 02:47 Keirathi wrote:
On February 26 2013 02:43 marvellosity wrote:
On February 26 2013 02:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
as town he'd be a good player to pick the main lynch candidate. if he's not town then we can lynch him instead


thrawn, this is all weak as shit. iamp was your scumread and then you were possibly suspicious of Acro, and now you randomly want to have Hapa call a duel?

Remember, thrawn wasn't on-board witht he "two scummy people duel" idea. He said making all those policies was pointless.

So thrawn, why exactly do you want Hapa to duel? Do you think he is scum, or town? What is your ideal scenario for a duel? A strong townie vs a scum suspect? Or two scum suspects against each other?


...After which we get no mention of Dieno until the Day 2 duel. He does express support for a Kei duel, HOWEVER it's notable that he doesn't show any real commitment to the idea. He never pushes it, and he even expresses some support to see Thrawn on the Day 1 duel:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360&currentpage=30#587
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360&currentpage=30#589


In fact now that I look at Snarfs filter in more detail, his Day 1 duel is also marred by non-commitments.

He starts off with this "say-nothing" diplomatic stance on the duel, keeping his options open:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360&currentpage=42#832

Somewhat early on, he does express support for voting Kei, but notably doesn't make a committment:
On February 27 2013 04:59 Snarfs wrote:
Consider this a vote for Keirathi. I'm not going to be pressured into pushing us closer to a lynch when we need the time. I don't particularly trust everyone else to "stall for time".


Only when some other players (notably Acro) start aggressively pushing the idea of Kei = scum, does he finally go and vote Kei:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360&currentpage=51#1013

Since then, he's pretty much done nothing of value.

So tl;dr, Snarfs has done very little and has been extremely non-committal. I gave him some townie-points for his stance on Kei earlier, but he never really committed to anything and left his options open until pressured by other players.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Snarfs
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1006 Posts
March 02 2013 08:04 GMT
#1769
I'm looking forward to seeing your yamato > zare reasoning.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
March 02 2013 08:06 GMT
#1770
Anyway it's 3am. Weeeee.

Reply to my post above when you can Snarfs. I'll be filter diving Yamato, Zare, and Acro tomorrow to see if I can find duelist #2.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Adam4167
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia1426 Posts
March 02 2013 08:07 GMT
#1771
Snarfs is town for the same reason that Hapa is, defending me at a time when the whole thread wanted me dead.
Snarfs
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1006 Posts
March 02 2013 08:10 GMT
#1772
I think I've been pretty damn committal.
Snarfs
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1006 Posts
March 02 2013 08:12 GMT
#1773
And at no point was I "pressured" by other players.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
March 02 2013 08:33 GMT
#1774
I am not mafia, lol.

I'll duel tomorrow and prove it. Give me Acro, I will dismantle him.

Hapa, too. I think they are the likely mafia here.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
March 02 2013 08:36 GMT
#1775
I don't think they are mafia together, but one of them is almost certainly mafia.
Writer@WriterYamato
Alderan
Profile Joined September 2010
United States463 Posts
March 02 2013 09:18 GMT
#1776
On March 02 2013 17:33 yamato77 wrote:
I am not mafia, lol.

I'll duel tomorrow and prove it. Give me Acro, I will dismantle him.

Hapa, too. I think they are the likely mafia here.



I'm drunk, and it's 4:13 am and that's still a horrendous post.

It's not day 1 with a bunch of scrubs falling in behind you just for being aggressive. You either aid town or you don't, but this kind of shit is ridiculous.

Honestly you have become more scummy than Acro as of late and after all the pressure I've put on him, if you duel him I will not be voting with you. But just like last selection period you're all about the talk and don't have the balls to actually do it.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
March 02 2013 09:37 GMT
#1777
Say what you like.

Tomorrow I find mafia, guaranteed.

Too tired/drunk to do analysis tonight.

Tomorrow, before the deadline and after, I will be dropping my reads on the players left in the game.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
March 02 2013 09:45 GMT
#1778
Also, I proposed dueling Acro and only did not do so because of town's absolute rejection of the notion.

If I'm mafia, why do I make the case at night, see people generally agree with it, but then not follow through, and instead tell my weakest teammate to call a duel instead?

It doesn't make much sense. Mafia is weak/not here. I no longer think Acro is truly mafia unless Hapa is not, but I will explain that tomorrow. Hapa is the best fit, IMO, to the rest of this mafia team. It's figuring out the last member that might prove difficult.
Writer@WriterYamato
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
March 02 2013 10:39 GMT
#1779
oh damn yamato... could you be scum?

yeah I think he is. i'm tired right now so making a big fancy case is too much work. i'll do it later.

if you wanna know why he's scum, look at his filter starting here

read how his reads change from when keir first got called out, till right before adam's duel, and to after the duel. look at the justification yamato uses to lynch adam instead of keir. yamato went from wanting someone to hang keir, to voting to lynch the person that hanged keir. that in of itself is a good enough reason to put him on the stand tomorrow
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
March 02 2013 10:58 GMT
#1780
On March 02 2013 19:39 thrawn2112 wrote:
oh damn yamato... could you be scum?

yeah I think he is. i'm tired right now so making a big fancy case is too much work. i'll do it later.

if you wanna know why he's scum, look at his filter starting here

read how his reads change from when keir first got called out, till right before adam's duel, and to after the duel. look at the justification yamato uses to lynch adam instead of keir. yamato went from wanting someone to hang keir, to voting to lynch the person that hanged keir. that in of itself is a good enough reason to put him on the stand tomorrow


yamato went from wanting someone to hang keir, to voting to lynch the person that hanged keir. that in of itself is a good enough reason to put him on the stand tomorrow

yamato went from wanting someone to hang keir, to voting to lynch the person that hanged keir. that in of itself is a good enough reason to put him on the stand tomorrow



READ ALL OF THESE THEY ARE IMPORTANT:

On February 26 2013 15:59 yamato77 wrote:

Honestly, I want to see Keir hang. Someone make it happen. Sylencia is another one I could live without right now. My null reads from earlier have returned to the thread and done fuck all to make me think they're townie. Time's a wastin'


On February 26 2013 16:05 yamato77 wrote:
"Not seeing town motivation" is not the same as "seeing scum motivation". A point I learned well lately. You'll have to do better than that to justify a red read on Adam, Keir.


On February 26 2013 17:34 yamato77 wrote:
What I fail to see the town motivation in here is Adam wanting to cut off all discussion about the read in general. Keir's last point he made was actually a salient one, that Adam professing his own towniness over his actions is a scummy thing to do. I really don't want to lynch him now that I understand his thought process about this read, because while I initially disagreed, it seems more likely now that this might be the case.

I don't think a town Adam has as little forethought as to make a decision like this one and duel someone on a whim. While I proclaimed that I would duel my scum reads, I never intended to do so unless I felt like it was necessary to secure a lynch, which is not how I think the situation was playing out today, lest I would have done so myself. This action is quite anti-town.

However, it does make a lot of sense if Adam is mafia, because this has pro-mafia written all over it. Over-aggressive, OMGUS, and discussion haltering in nature. Also, while he's putting himself on the line, he's doing so IN LINE WITH THREAD SENTIMENT, which was that Keirathi was mafia, and Adam was the town. Just like in Nomination, mafia are wont to do things that seem risky and townie, so long as the real risk is low.

The only reason I honestly thought Adam was town before this was because his mafia reputation is super easy to catch and lurky as fuck. I don't know how to read him now, but I think he's a better lynch than Keir, simply for the act of dueling him right now. If he's town, it was a colossally stupid thing to do, and it doesn't make me any more convinced that Keir is mafia, nor has he done a whole lot of in-depth analysis to prove this point.

##Vote: Adam


he spends the lynch cycle promoting the idea that we might have two townies:

On February 27 2013 16:44 yamato77 wrote:
So let me break the game down here, because I have a decent idea of what's going on.

Based on the complete uselessness of both parties involved in this lynch, Adam and Keirathi, I think the likelihood of them both being town is high. Mafia in this position would be more concerned with the possibility of being lynched here, and do something about it. Neither of these players seems to be trying particularly hard to live, so by default they're probably just town. It's unfortunate that one, or perhaps both, might die in this situation, but if I had to pick one, I would pick Adam. Keirathi, I think, is the better town among the two, and could potentially be valuable to us later on if left alive. That said, at this point, it doesn't matter too much to me which one lives, because I don't think either of them is particularly useful this game.

THAT said, I don't want both to die. The mere thought of a double lynch is hilariously stupid in this situation, and I don't like the idea of not choosing either of them at all. Mafia have an unprecedented ability to hide in this situation, because they don't even have to FAKE a read on a player and justify it, they can just say they think they're both worth lynching and not vote, causing a double lynch.

So who is doing this? Iamperfection. I initially thought he was fairly townie, but his interest in this lynch is tremendously low. Like, I don't think he's given a read on either of these people that was longer than a sentence or deeper than "He's mafia because XX and I said so." In fact, that's basically how all of his reads have been so far, town or scum. But what is really damning, to me, is the fact that he's pushing this double lynch thing with no good logic to back it up. Acro, I can believe. Iamp is just kinda on that wagon and has pushed it without a clear motive like Acro's. If these two really are townies, like I think, then mafia is more likely to be disinterested in picking sides, and has clear motivation to want them both dead. It's the same heuristic I used to catch on to Snarfs in Nomination; mafia players don't care which townie dies, and won't spend much effort picking one. Only iamp isn't even picking one. Hilariously scummy.


How in the world did yamato go from wanting keir to hang (his own words) to this, which came during the voting phase:

On February 27 2013 17:04 yamato77 wrote:
Keirathi's play, while indecisive, does not indicate a strong mafia mentality. His Adam read was not in line with thread sentiment, and he was only just in the process of fleshing it out. His time does seem legitimately limited, as Hapa pointed out, which significantly excuses the "scummiest" part of his play; the apparent lack of interest in the game.



?????????????????????

"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
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