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On July 09 2013 22:18 VayneAuthority wrote:
We should probably give this rayn thing a rest for a bit as its killing discussion before the night post. People that have a chance to die should really throw out some reads/cases before they are gone.
I really need people's opinions on these three men, as I think they are all scum.
gumshoe, ghost, onegu
They don't have time to post anything meaningful in the thread but are able to show up last second and ninjavote for ON? Especially gumshoe who I know is much more capable than this.
I am sorry for this the deadline is 5am for me normally I am up until 2am ish, I fell asleep early and woke up a half hour before the deadline i tried to speed read but was still tired and since I know Xata is 100% town I sheeped him.
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On July 09 2013 16:19 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:52 Alakaslam wrote:
By the way CaucasianAsian is new? How awesome, will he join newbies?
This helps me a bit, I just assumed he was a vet :p I have only played 2 previous games of mafia online, and quite a few live. It's played so differently online as opposed to live (can't say things like: you had to think about that! You're mafia!). Honestly, I don't really know how to approach all of this.
Well I'm still newer than you. Yeah I sux very very hard at irl mafia...
The newbie games build almost as fast but holy slamfishes, 9 pages since I was here last
EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE READ 72-77! I HOPE YOU ALL DID!
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rayn, if you're actually going to post something later in the night phase explaining yourself, I'd appreciate it if you would do that sooner than later. It's clearly a topic of discussion, it's filling up pages, and if you think that you can actually explain what you did rationally and from a town-only point of view, that would help people make reads and help move discussion forwards.
On July 09 2013 23:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I could and would totally buss and make moves as scum.
What i would not do is to create an unnecessary lie if i do not have to. And if i was scum and me or anyone in my team launched that nuke on MZ, i would not claim it, because IT DOESN'T HELP ME AT ALL! There is no reason to. (1) I think it's more likely you're town than scum
(2) I think whatever you're trying to do is NOT helpful if you're town. You caused some confusion, and I don't see you playing for some kind of townie end goal (a counterclaim isn't happening)
But there's been enough said on that topic
I'm interested in Senor Tofu
I find most of his posting townie. He tries to drum up support for a VA lynch, follows up on discussions with people, and I don't think I've ever seen scum use the phrase "banana-butthole."
During the lynch though, his posts stuck out to me and I disliked them. This one still triggers my scumdar.
On July 09 2013 06:19 FirmTofu wrote:
I don't see how ON's roleclaim is at all alignment indicative. Scum could just as easily have the same role so if his claim changes your opinion of him, I find that very suspicious.
That being said, I am not entirely convinced that ON is scum. I wanted to have a wagon that was at least competitive to the Dandel Ion wagon so that we could get some discussion going.
I can no longer endorse the lynch on ON and I am going back to my best scumread on VA. I tried lynching suboptimally in my last game and it ended up flipping town. I'm not going to make that mistake again. On July 09 2013 06:31 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 06:26 austinmcc wrote:
Who, in particular, do you find suspicious within the ON voters? I said "IF". I don't think anyone has switched their voted based on his claim yet, so I don't think anyone on the ON wagon is suspicious as of yet. I will look through it later, but for now, I would like to focus on why VA would be a better lynch than ON. Defenses or accusations based on things that haven't happened but MIGHT are things I find scummy. I associate them with knowledge of alignments, because if you're starting from a position of not knowing alignments, you have to try and figure them out by using what has actually happened. You can't consider what might or might not happen. But if you know alignments, you may just be looking for things to justify the reads you're predisposed to have, including using things that haven't happened.
On July 09 2013 06:38 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 06:33 austinmcc wrote:On July 09 2013 06:31 FirmTofu wrote:On July 09 2013 06:26 austinmcc wrote:I'm going to crack up and then be sad if I argue about Liquid City with Z-Boson and then this game becomes Liquid City 2.0. I agree that I normally wouldn't jump right to claiming, especially in a game where we've had a good number of other claims. It's not...damning, I think I've seen some people rush to that and I have a pretty godawful history with claiming. On July 09 2013 06:20 Nirvana.Gabo wrote:
ON claimed a PR, i don't see hwy that wouldn't change your view of his alignment 'splain please On July 09 2013 06:19 FirmTofu wrote:
I don't see how ON's roleclaim is at all alignment indicative. Scum could just as easily have the same role so if his claim changes your opinion of him, I find that very suspicious.
That being said, I am not entirely convinced that ON is scum. I wanted to have a wagon that was at least competitive to the Dandel Ion wagon so that we could get some discussion going.
I can no longer endorse the lynch on ON and I am going back to my best scumread on VA. I tried lynching suboptimally in my last game and it ended up flipping town. I'm not going to make that mistake again. Who, in particular, do you find suspicious within the ON voters? Can you give me a ... twitter length summary of why VA is scummy while I poke through filters? I said "IF". I don't think anyone has switched their voted based on his claim yet, so I don't think anyone on the ON wagon is suspicious as of yet. I will look through it later, but for now, I would like to focus on why VA would be a better lynch than ON. On July 09 2013 04:47 FirmTofu wrote:Can we look at Vayne please? He still has not responded to my accusations. Link 1Link 2 Why point out that you find something very suspicious if it hasn't happened? Also, can you walk me through how the switching based on the claim would make you suspicious? Assuming that ON is scum and we have scum on that wagon trying to bus him, scum could be using his roleclaim as a reason to back off. I wanted to anticipate this move and prevent it from happening. Assuming that ON is town and we have scum on the wagon, scum would be looking for a reason to get off the wagon so that they wouldn't be associated with it when the flip comes around. This could be used an excuse to do so. At this point, I don't think there are any scum on the ON lynch so my point happens to be a bit irrelevant. This post also gave me bad feels. Maybe I play scum differently, but I'm not running away from every mislynch, especially when there are like ... 11+ people on a lynch. You're going to get more scrutiny from moving around or moving around with bad reason than you will from just going "Oh case, I sheep, ON scum" and voting once (tell me if you disagree).
Maybe it's the difference in thought here, but ... this whole "I don't think there are any scum on the ON lynch" bit is so odd. If you think 11ish townies are all wanting to lynch the same guy and there is NO scum on the lynch, that indicates to me that the dude is scum. The case was made my be, still voting ON, so here Tofu is saying he thinks a townie made a case on a dude, picked up a bunch of other townie votes, had no scum voters, all of which leads him to the conclusion that the lynch is ... on a townie?
I don't get that at all.
Rest of filter, townie. But filter around the time of the lynch gets really scummy to me, or, at the very least, I just don't understand what he was thinking. Anyone else draw anything from those posts, especially the second one?
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Yeah seems kinda like he has extra info. And just adding JUST IN CASE stuff to look active. scummy man.
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On July 10 2013 00:19 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah seems kinda like he has extra info. And just adding JUST IN CASE stuff to look active. scummy man.
Why burn your shoot-down on D1?
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On July 10 2013 00:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2013 00:19 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah seems kinda like he has extra info. And just adding JUST IN CASE stuff to look active. scummy man. Why burn your shoot-down on D1?
Because its the time when most nukes are shot?
Also I like using 1 shot powers early so its not wasted and I feel that my save was extremely justified.
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Im gonna sleep,
dont do stupid shit guys.
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On July 10 2013 00:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im gonna sleep,
dont do stupid shit guys.
I will try not to.
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Signifying I am caught up.
So Vayne, I can actually be of assistance to you 
Onegu has begun to relive our prior game. He plays a pretty good scum game (especially from my perspective), by attacking town mistakes.
This is usually good because it scores you town cred while painting your target which takes attention off yourself. It would not have caught my eye as much if he hadn't started after some stronger players said (too happy-go-lucky, response to rayn's gig[????]) pretty much town. I usually assume I will look scummy because there is no usually yet and last game I was lynched as town. So I would actually expect what is coming from him.
Onegu just had bad timing this time 
On a further note, yeah there are a lot of blues. There are also a lot of players. It isn't impossible that there are vanillas, who amuse the pre lynch time with speaking Russian, and then going story boarding when that derails. I know most posters have soft claimed but cauc hasn't yet, neither have a lot of people. But even if I was blue, I am not going to paint a target on my back for mafia. So the deal about vanilla claiming doesn't say scum even if it is a lie.
Oh, uh, hehehenothingpersonalkthanksbye
+ Show Spoiler + Russian<That fool doesn't represent. At least he is a self-admitted fool, but a fool nonetheless.>
Hey!
+ Show Spoiler + shut up. Russian<caught a spy today. I am disappointed you didn't enjoy my gift, Mepak_Ziph, but perhaps that was to be expected. I assure you, it was well meant. Let this suffice, I am in a distant land and my home is a smoking pile of ash. It will take time for me to build enough resources to afford luxury items again. However, though the idiot hasn't allied with you yet, I assure you my feelings toward you are as warm as those I have for Chezinu Isunizehc.
Uh...
Allied with M_Z.....
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catching up on thread brb
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as far as i'm concerned M_Z is almost completely confirmed town. i want to hear rayn's full reads before saying definitively one way or the other...but it sounds like a townie plan he's making (assuming he's telling the truth and didn't conveniently just say "oh! that's a good idea!" when xatalos suggested that it was a possibility...). I'm not convinced Ace is scum. I can see where he is coming from, mostly, with a couple exceptions.
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On July 09 2013 23:36 WaveofShadow wrote:
Honestly nothing Rayn has done makes a whole lot of sense anymore so I don't know what to think.
I DO think DI is scum and needs to be destroyed, however.
bro I'm confirmed town.
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I'm here in full force now that basterd is done. Sorry about that, tense last couple of days for me lol.
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On July 10 2013 01:13 Alakaslam wrote:Signifying I am caught up. So Vayne, I can actually be of assistance to you Onegu has begun to relive our prior game. He plays a pretty good scum game (especially from my perspective), by attacking town mistakes. This is usually good because it scores you town cred while painting your target which takes attention off yourself. It would not have caught my eye as much if he hadn't started after some stronger players said (too happy-go-lucky, response to rayn's gig[????]) pretty much town. I usually assume I will look scummy because there is no usually yet and last game I was lynched as town. So I would actually expect what is coming from him. Onegu just had bad timing this time On a further note, yeah there are a lot of blues. There are also a lot of players. It isn't impossible that there are vanillas, who amuse the pre lynch time with speaking Russian, and then going story boarding when that derails. I know most posters have soft claimed but cauc hasn't yet, neither have a lot of people. But even if I was blue, I am not going to paint a target on my back for mafia. So the deal about vanilla claiming doesn't say scum even if it is a lie. Oh, uh, hehehenothingpersonalkthanksbye + Show Spoiler + Russian<That fool doesn't represent. At least he is a self-admitted fool, but a fool nonetheless.> Hey! + Show Spoiler + shut up. Russian<caught a spy today. I am disappointed you didn't enjoy my gift, Mepak_Ziph, but perhaps that was to be expected. I assure you, it was well meant. Let this suffice, I am in a distant land and my home is a smoking pile of ash. It will take time for me to build enough resources to afford luxury items again. However, though the idiot hasn't allied with you yet, I assure you my feelings toward you are as warm as those I have for Chezinu Isunizehc. Uh... Allied with M_Z.....
You dont actually defend yourself you just try to flip it back on me only useing meta. Butthis game is you arent scumhunting, you arent doing anything. You refuse to vote ON but wont give a reason to do so, you are just trying to get town cred.
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Okay, here we go:
This is the situation:
N1 just started. We mislynched OriginalName. Chezinu launched a nuke on Xatalos, Oatsmaster defended that nuke. A silent nuke was launched towards Meapak. WoS redirected the nuke to NG. Chezinu has claimed his nuke was harmless. Before that Johnnywup claimed that he thinks he has a similar role to Chezinu and had to nuke. He nuked TanGeng.
Everybody hit by a nuke died and flipped town. We are 3 townies down. Bad. This means everyone in town is pretty clueless or mafia has the control of the game.
These are my thoughts (mainly on the silent nuke - which we know was harmful); Meapak is probably town and the silent nuker is mafia. A townie has no reason to not announce he nuked someone in thread, even if the nuke is silent. If they do not announce it, they are withholding information from the town, information that mafia already has (as they did not launch the nuke in that case). So the silent nuker is mafia, there is no other explanation. WoS is probably town for redirecting the nuke to a scummy guy (NG). As the nuke is from mafia, there is one thing that concerns me. What if Meapak & WoS are both mafia and they made a powerplay with a nuke to "confirm" them. I want to know if that's the case.
This is my plan:
I claim that i nuked Meapak to throw mafia off their game. Seriously, think about it. You are mafia and some townie claims a nuke you have launched. Would it throw you off? You need to comment on the matter somehow, as by reading my filter there is an obvious lie, just that you know EXACTLY where the lie is (in "i nuked MZ"). Mafia gets confused. As from townies however, i expect four sorts of behaviour:
1) Straight out calling me the stupidest player ever.
2) Analyzing the situation from mafia/town perspective and reach into a conclusion (why would i claim i nuked MZ as either alignment, especially as mafia).
3) Point out the obvious contradiction in my posts and question me about it.
4) Can't understand anything that's going on with me, question me or go back to 1)
Who did (1):
Meapak and WoS. This is perfectly understandable because they were involved in this particular business from the beginning. I can understand their thought process, insta "wtf is this, this is the stupidest idiot ever".
Who did (2):
Oats. Oats realized there is no way i would have claimed that nuke as mafia. It makes no sense. As mafia i would not benefit about it at all.
Who did (3):
Alaskaslam. He did ask the right question when he looked at the situation. This is the correct post to dig up:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 09 2013 10:34 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 19:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 08 2013 09:02 Ace wrote:On July 07 2013 19:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 07 2013 18:31 geript wrote:
@rayn... was that you? No it was not me. I think town should claim all their nukes so that we can tell for sure if there is an unclaimed nuke that's from scum. I don't see any downside doing so. Either way if this nuke to MZ is from town, please claim it whoever shot it. If nobody claims it probably means MZ is town, i was wrong, and mafia is trying to frame me. Setup is closed and we don't know what role mechanics exist. Claiming nukes this early with little information is pointless. Also, if Scum know who holds nukes that may lead to them NKing Town with KP if they have nukes themselves. This is something i wanted to comment on earlier but forgot. Ace i think you are misunderstanding me; I was trying to say if you are town and launch a nuke you should claim it even if the nuke is silent. This way we know that every nuke not claimed in thread when launched is from mafia (that seems to be the case with the nuke on MZ). Then you didn't claim it until now. So Lying and foolishly so, but I haven't had to play scum ever so idunno, I bet it gets hard. Seeing as I suck this bad at town, I would probably be a day1 red flip come a scum game. But wow I have never seen such a resounding call, well done Mepak_Ziph, you deserve our ears.
That's spot on. Why did i not follow my own advice in claiming nukes?
Who did (4):
Afaik noone.
Now about people who are scum and why:
What i was looking was behaviour that does not fall into any category i described before. Think about this from mafia pov. You don't know what i am up to. I have obviously fakeclaimed to shot a nuke. I am asking you questions. What am i after? I obviously have some sort of a plan, what do you need to answer? Another behaviour is to straight up say "lol you can't possibly have launched that nuke".
Austin:
Look at pages 71 -> where i claim. What does Austin do? Avoids the whole claiming thing!! He is happy to ask me about anything else and happy to answer questions about anything else but no, he does not talk aboutthe obvious contradiction in my behaviour. I even try to prod him into discussing it by saying "Are you even reading the thread?", but no, he won't. The obvious answer is that he is uncomfortable talking about something he knows more than he should and he knows i know more than what's been said in thread. I can't find any reason why you would not try to figure out why someone is lying as town. Look at Austin now. NOW he's ready to talk about my motives. rofl.
Ace:
What Ace does after PC. Calls me scum. Why? Because "i was instrumental in turning the DI lynch around." Yeah, me and only me. Not Austin (who made a case) or any other guy like geript/Xatalos etc etc. But me, who has earlier said "Dandel is town and ON is mafia". Makes sense right? Ace does not account my lie, at all. FUCK I DIRECTED THE POST EARLIER TO HIM. The post where i say "Everyone who is town and nukes should claim their nuke instantly". Ace is not bringing this up, but he is bringing up OTHER stuff why i am scum. If he was town that would be an obvious point to bring up, as i have lied. But as Ace is scum he does not know what i am after, therefore he stays silent and let's someone else bring that up so he can add that to my scumminess-list later. And how does he do that. By saying "Meapak caught rayn in a lie and now he is trying to cover it up". rofl. I already talked about how ridiculous that is in thread. If i was scum there would be no lie, as there is absolutely zero reason to claim the nuke as scum!! Ace usually thinks these things true from every perspective, questions the other person about their motives and makes a decision. What about here? A half-arsed case that does not hold water at any point. Take a look at Ace's filter and you can see how he is just trying to find reasons why i am scum and not trying to figure out if i am scum or not. Ace is mafia.
Jampidampi:
Jampidampi was the first one to bring up that i fakeclaimed the nuke. His thought process seemed fine until he said "rayn can't have launched that nuke because he nuked Xatalos earlier and that nuke did not fly." Silent nuke is silent nuke and probably launched via PM's, that has nothing to do with ##nuke: commands in thread. That's where his thought process falls apart. I think he is too informed about the situation and is trying to make good posts aboutthe situation.
Maju:
He asks me a random question about launching a nuke on MZ, then goes back to WoS. Definitely not interested in what happened there.
That are all people who stood out for me last night and this morning. If you want to look closer into this, look at people who did not want to talk about the claim at all, and why.
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Rayn you're still and idiot but maybe not as much of an idiot as I was thinking after that nuke fiasco.
There are things I like and things I don't like about your conclusion.
I like your points on oats and alakaslam, I have a pretty good feeling that they're town.
I like your point on austin and had actually been considering him for a lynch as I'm starting to agree with my fellow PTP players that austin's playing his scum meta.
I don't like your conclusions about ace or jampidampi. Ace hasn't exactly had the best last couple of hours but he's posted without hesitation and comes across as genuine. He's not actively hurting the town and I think there are several people who have a much higher chance of flipping scum. As for jampidampi, he's town, I have seen nothing but glowing greeness in his filter and I think your point on him is weak.
Oh and we can lynch maju for all I care, he's worthless.
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You do have a point about people avoiding the issue, if I think back to when you originally claimed WoS and I went ballistic and I kept expecting people to take notice and in the end only alakaslam did.
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Just to let you guys know, today and tomorrow I'll be fairly busy, so I might go awol for said time period.
I'll try to keep up with the read and post whenever I can.
Right now I would look into johnnywup as well. He posted this:
On July 09 2013 06:41 johnnywup wrote:
Liking ON lynch much more ATM. Changing it to that.
And then disappeared for the next 3-4 pages. As soon as day post comes out, he comments, which means he was just chillin watching town get all confused and shit. without really participating.
Ace, as mentioned before, is someone with very questionable play, towards the end of d1, and should be under heavy fire for today.
When I get back, I'll go over the reyne fiasco and see if there's any chance his latest explanation pans out.
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On July 10 2013 03:27 Z-BosoN wrote:Just to let you guys know, today and tomorrow I'll be fairly busy, so I might go awol for said time period. I'll try to keep up with the read and post whenever I can. Right now I would look into johnnywup as well. He posted this: Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 06:41 johnnywup wrote:
Liking ON lynch much more ATM. Changing it to that. And then disappeared for the next 3-4 pages. As soon as day post comes out, he comments, which means he was just chillin watching town get all confused and shit. without really participating. Ace, as mentioned before, is someone with very questionable play, towards the end of d1, and should be under heavy fire for today. When I get back, I'll go over the reyne fiasco and see if there's any chance his latest explanation pans out.
Yeah, I was at the airport when I posted that. I really couldn't comment more than that and a DI lynch didn't look that good (I mean he still looked scummy, but I really did like the argument against ON a lot more). DI really didn't participate a lot and I felt there was a lot more incriminating evidence against ON. ON simply looked like scum. I was indeed chilling watching town get confused and shit without participating because I was on my iPhone with 5% battery and I was trying to conserve it so I could see the night post. So yeah.
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To all you idiots who didn't want to lynch dandel yesterday.
Look at what he's done since and justify your decision.
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EPT
