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On February 12 2014 14:40 Oatsmaster wrote:Yeah yeah thats fine and all, ignore the not looking at coag's meta. But that switch was so late and so useless. And it seems like such a small thing to change your mind so drastically from when you totally refused to entertain the idea that sidesprang was scum. Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 06:45 Aquanim wrote:
Ha! Do your worst Coag.
Reading his filter again, it's still marginal but I think there was a significant amount more thought going into his posts in the newbie, rather than just summarising the thread (which more accurately describes here).
Can't say I'm hugely confident in this one but
##Unvote
##Vote: Sidesprang I point out a lotta specific points and it comes down to a general meta read that isnt very detailed that makes you pretty much 180? Especially since it was 5/4 in coag's favor so you didnt even need to change.
Sidesprang was on my list of possible scum at the start of the day and nothing he did during the day changed that. You're mistaking my doubts of the specific points you raised against Sidesprang for a townread on him. At least part of my motivation for that exchange and pressuring you over your points was to test whether you yourself were just bullshitting or you were genuine about that read - my vote for you was not in jest.
Having slept for a while, when I came back to the thread and had a fresh think about it I decided you and Coag were probably town, which left me with my next-best scumread - Sidesprang. And the fact that my vote was technically unnecessary to lynch Sidesprang doesn't mean I shouldn't vote for my now-top scumread at the lynch.
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maybe its unfortunate timing but it looks really bad.
Yeah ok, I dont think this course of conversation is really all that useful.
Why is hopeless scum
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On February 12 2014 14:42 Oatsmaster wrote:Like go through your thought process from this post. Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 00:00 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@Oats: AFAIK these are the points you've raised against Sidesprang, and I don't really like them much at all. On February 07 2014 19:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
...
##unvote
##vote Sidesprang
Firstly his scumreads dont make sense. He summarizes all our filters and doesnt say anything about how it makes us scum, the things he pointed out in your filters were slightly suspicious, which was all he was saying at the time AFAIK
he isnt reading in depth at all to know that I think johnny is town
Did you think Johnny was town? news to me
and his townread on suki doesnt make sense either
meh... dunno that this is particularly scummy
bleh its hard to phrase but I dont get the feeling like he is questioning anything at all in this game.
that I'll have to think about On February 10 2014 00:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
Sidesprang totally scummy for waffling on his read on me and hopeless and he doesnt even say what he thinks about our votes and stuff leading up to it. did you forget sidesprang?
Sidesprang being scum for being unsure about his reads doesn't really convince me. Nor does him not talking about every facet of someone's filter. also Who gets worried when scum flip? idk exactly what he meant by this, but I strongly doubt it was a scumclaim. On February 10 2014 11:55 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 11:45 jaybrundage wrote:
Masta of the Oats Talk to me about sidesprang. His lurking ways are pretty sketchy atm. You think he's scum instead of lurking town. Why so?
Also I asked you earlier about Hopeless1der what are your thoughts on him? sidesprang's vote on Johnny came late and felt like he unnecessarily added stuff in order to not be 'sheeping'. sidesprang's vote on Johnny was in the middle of a list post where he said stuff about multiple people. I don't see how amplifing a vote with "stuff" is scummy.
Too many list posts with questions it doesnt seem like he cares about the answers at all.
He has two list posts, both made pretty soon after he returned to the thread from a long absense - updating the thread on your current reads makes some sense in that instance. Of those two list posts, only one of them has questions. and like this Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 00:58 sidesprang wrote:
I don't mind hopeless so far this game. He made good points against JayB, tho I dont agree that they have to make him scum, might just be bad. And I like that he got Balla to quit playing around with the confirmed town shit. Only problem is that all his posts have been easy posts to make even for a scum. So he is pretty much null for me atm. "Hopeless posted good posts but he still scummy". Like what.. So what? I've seen scum make good points about other people. I again don't see what your problem is here. On February 11 2014 16:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
Lol coag is totally an angry lynch. Dont waste today lynching town guys. As scum coag just wouldve given up and not be angry. Sidesprang is todays lynch for bandwagonning onto coag without reasons on why coag is scum I can quite easily imagine a townie just wanting Coag gone regardless of his alignment - that's not too far away from my own position. Look, Oats, if I'm wrong here about Sidesprang I'd prefer you to convince me than not - but your cases haven't done it yet. to this post. Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 06:45 Aquanim wrote:
Ha! Do your worst Coag.
Reading his filter again, it's still marginal but I think there was a significant amount more thought going into his posts in the newbie, rather than just summarising the thread (which more accurately describes here).
Can't say I'm hugely confident in this one but
##Unvote
##Vote: Sidesprang
Okay. My initial thought before that exchange was that you were likely scum since I didn't think you were pushing particularly hard for a Sidesprang lynch. My previous experience seeing you play as town is that you're more emotionally invested in the game.
After we had that discussion I was entertaining the possibility that Sidesprang was scum, and thinking about whether I was more confident in that possibility or in the possibility that you were scum.
About then Suki wandered into the thread and said something about her town-read on you, and a sentence or two about scum-reading Sidesprang:
On February 12 2014 00:25 suki wrote:
I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis.
This "clicked" for me as something which I might view as truly scum-indicative - namely, not drawing rational conclusions out of the thread. Points like "oh well he justified this vote, that makes him scum" don't really do much for me, since I can believe a townie might feel obligated to justify their votes no matter the circumstances. However, just posting observations rather than drawing conclusions is something I do think is reliably scum-indicative.
I found the meta read difficult since Sidesprang's town game does tend towards reciting events in the thread as well, and he drew at least a few conclusions in this game, but I eventually decided there were a significantly larger amount of conclusions being drawn in his town filter than in his game here.
Also, at some point someone posted Coag's LoL PYP filter, which gave me a reliable scum-meta of his to draw upon, leading to my town-read of him (as stated earlier).
Upon rereading in the morning (it was 3am when I went to sleep and I was really tired so I didn't trust my judgement at that point), my scumread on Sidesprang overtook my reads on you (Oats) and Coag. Hence, the vote for Sidesprang. Since my reasons differed from yours I decided to make it clear why I was voting him.
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On February 12 2014 14:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
maybe its unfortunate timing but it looks really bad.
Yeah ok, I dont think this course of conversation is really all that useful.
Why is hopeless scum
I'm going to have to pass on this one for the time being, choosing between hopeless, LM and jayB is challenging me. My snap judgement at the time I said that was that I had more reasons to think LM and jayB were town but I'm starting to rethink that now.
I'll get back to you. Before the end of the night at worst, hopefully sooner.
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I would really like that yes, preferably something on all 3 because they are viable lynches for tomorrow. Maybe not jay but you never know what might happen.
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its pretty late aqua, anything at all?
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Sorry bout that, dota happened
LoneMeow
+ Show Spoiler +Interactions with/about JonnyLawOn February 08 2014 03:30 LoneMeow wrote:
Hello. Had major emergency at work today so I have only done a quick read of the thread so far.
So far I'd call JonnyLaw the scummiest of the bunch. Just compare his posting to the previous game and his newbies.
One liners, off topic, no hostility towards who he thinks is scum.
Proper read commencing now, if there's anything you want me to comment on or pay extra attention to let me know. This was LoneMeow's first post in-game. It would seem a little odd for him to bus his scumbuddy right out the gate - then again, Jonny already had two votes on him (myself and Koshi IIRC) and was taking a decent amount of pressure. It might have just seemed like the safest course. Although actually, now that I think about it... how did LoneMeow come to this conclusion without having done a "proper read" of the thread? If you read this LM I'd like an answer, otherwise I'll ask later. He justifies his position when asked though. On February 08 2014 06:12 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:32 suki wrote:On February 08 2014 05:19 LoneMeow wrote:
Okay, so:
JonnyLaw
Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion.
Verdict: scummy
Can you provide some examples to back this up? See for example this post from last game: Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 11:48 JonnyLaw wrote:
Meh, okay so she dislikes everything I say. I think they mean the same thing. I guess it could be taken as she thinks im misguided sometimes rather than simply scummy.
Her question seemed legit enough but balla's right. At the start of day 1 I want to see what someone is willing or able to bring to the game. There's no point saying much until they show what they're committing.
At this point LM's first post was shit but says nothing about his alignment until other actions take place in the game.
Koshi on the other hand created two pages of shit posting. This allowed LM and other LM like people to pop in, say nothing and fuck off out of here acting as though they participated in the game. Compare to this game - there's absolutely none of that aggression and hostility aimed at any players. It's all generic, see for example these: Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:43 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:40 Koshi wrote:On February 07 2014 07:40 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote:
@jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. Overall you had a good game. You had one comment early that tripped my scum radar. I think along the lines of "in newer games people need motivation to post." Then you proceeded to try and take over the town. I felt like you were scum trying to take over the town. Bah, you should have been scum. Nobody cares about past game Jonny. What better time to sit around talking. It lets us get reads we can use later. Better last game or future games or past games than fucking policy talk. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:41 JonnyLaw wrote:
Votes are like assholes in this game. Give the man a minute. It's day1 lets sit around and chat a while. On February 08 2014 06:21 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote:
Ok so Jonny doesn't have any scum games that I can find. If someone can link me any that would be great.
To my best understanding he's had none whatsoever. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote:
Going through the previous town games of his I don't see too much difference between those games and this game. He's always posted one liners, with the occasional longer post here and there. One of the things that I didn't like about his play that I've mentioned is he keeps on shitting on Balla's opening post way after he says it's useless to talk about it.. But in Shadowed Mafia he actually does the same with Koshi's opening. Keeps on mentioning it despite saying it's useless.
If you look at the previous aborted game, he did have one liners but he also posted quite a lot of longer posts where he actively volunteered his thoughts and reads on players. That's what is missing in this game, along with the aggression and hostility towards players he thinks are scum. If LoneMeow's scum he bussed JonnyLaw good and hard, at a time when I feel it wasn't immediately necessary... but I'm not entirely sure the scum team would have felt the same way. There was also that thing where Jonny claimed LoneMeow had said "lurking"/"nothing of merit" without ever really reading his filter. ...I really don't know how that reflects on LoneMeow's alignment, I'd like to hear other opinions on this one. I think it could be important though. Interactions with/about SidesprangOn February 08 2014 06:05 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 05:24 LoneMeow wrote:On February 08 2014 05:21 Koshi wrote:
I like you Stray Kitten. I like you.
I don't see jayB being scum without Jonny being scum tbh. The other way around is possible.
Can we see a vote already? Why do you think jaybrundage can't be scum if JonnyLaw is town? Connection? The way you catched me previous game. I disappeared when it was lynch and wasn't discussing anything. The same happened with Jonny early game. Imagine if Jonny is town and jayB is scum, do you think Jonny would suddenly disappear at the same time hell breaks lose and not offer his opinion? There's always the chance that he actually had to do something IRL, but yes, I see your point. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote:
Then when I call him out on him he says that he is there and trying to make sense of the clusterfuck. Which is extremely scummy, and then the next thing he posts is a misinterpretation about something that hapenned PRE-GAME. (the lollypop business).
The "trying to make sense" thing was scummy, I agree. What do you think of sidesprang? You asked him some questions, did you come to some conclusion based on the answers? meh. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787¤tpage=60#1200Partially contests suki's case on Sidesprang. Reads kind of similar to my own argument against Oats' case but that doesn't necessarily make LM town. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787¤tpage=60#1200then this, about which I am also "meh". On LoneMeow's metaI went back and had a quick look at his scum meta (most recent I believe) from Newbie XLVII. Despite the fact that he was apparently posting with one hand from hospital or something, he asked some questions and appears to have had at least a little interaction with the thread. My only personal previous experience with LoneMeow was when he was scum in Newbie XLIII, in which his play was significantly less proactive. Therefore, I previously had his large amount of interaction with the thread as a strong towntell - in the light of his XLVII meta I think it's weaker.
Conclusion: I don't really have one as yet. He'd be playing a pretty damn good scumgame if he is but I think he might conceivably be capable of it.
obviously imma talk some more with lone and develop my read on him tomorrow. For now I'll have a look at hopeless then go to bed. Can't be assed thinking about jay until he reveals whatever is going on with this blueclaim shit.
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Hopeless1der
Oh wow.
+ Show Spoiler +Interactions with/about JonnyLawOn February 08 2014 23:44 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 23:29 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 23:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 08 2014 23:02 Koshi wrote:
You never sheep.
Was is dis? I sheep all the time, I just dont say im sheeping  Not at all. Did.you agree with Hopeless read on you?How sure are you about jonny red flip? Of course he disagrees with me, he's scum Koshi. /sarcasm I may not be back before deadline, family stuff. I'll try to keep updated by phone ##Unvote
##Vote: JonnyLaw Hopeless does not mention jonnylaw at all before this post. Doesn't discuss the cases made by two or three other players (myself, koshi, balla). None, nada, zip. Can't believe I didn't notice this earlier. Interactions with/about Sidesprangdisagrees with Suki's scum meta read on Sidesprang, otherwise there is nothing at all. Absolutely nothing about the alignment of Sidesprang, who was a person of interest for quite some time in the thread. So was Jonny for that matter.
Conclusion: simply based on association with flipped scum he's far, far more likely than Lone. In other regards I haven't been getting hugely scummy feelings from him throughout the game, but not in fact having talked about either of the scum lynches in the game at all is pretty damning.
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There's probably more to say about Hopeless but it's now late and I'm going to sleep. See you later.
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I didnt really discuss the johnnylaw cases either.
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Hopeless:
Hopeless is way more active than last game. I was going to say that this points to him being more town but actually thinking about it, he was pretty active at the end of Day 1 last game, active enough to convince people he was town. I was also going to say he's more light-hearted but actually his tone seems about the same (minus the reboot pic that he posted when his wireless conked out which is null imo).
He hard pushes Jay as the lynch on Day 1:
On February 07 2014 10:35 Hopeless1der wrote:
I dont like jayb..so forced and trivial. Like in a too-scummy-to-be-scum way.
On February 08 2014 03:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
is jay TRYING to be scummy?
I actually liked the way he pressured and thought it was townie.
and then he randomly votes Jonny:
On February 08 2014 23:44 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 23:29 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 23:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 08 2014 23:02 Koshi wrote:
You never sheep.
Was is dis? I sheep all the time, I just dont say im sheeping Not at all. Did.you agree with Hopeless read on you?How sure are you about jonny red flip? Of course he disagrees with me, he's scum Koshi. /sarcasm I may not be back before deadline, family stuff. I'll try to keep updated by phone ##Unvote
##Vote: JonnyLaw
So yeah it's a bit strange. Pushes Jay the whole game, I'm stilll hard pushing Jay. Suddenly he votes Jonny with no explanation.
Hopeless then posts his big scum theory on me, which is the biggest effort he's put all game (and which I felt was a big point in his favour). However, scum COULD have written it so let's look into his follow up...
...
..
He completely forgets about it.
That's really weird. Putting so much effort into calling someone scum and then not even following up. He gets sidetracked on Coag when thread sentiment is headed that way.
He also seems to still be seeing Jay as scummy, reaffirmed that Jay's quote was not a blue claim, but isn't pushing Jay either.
On February 12 2014 08:04 Hopeless1der wrote:
i kinda still like suki for scum because of her meta-reading of sidesprang being so out to lunch.
What about Hopeless' meta read on me? What about my 'bad' case on Jay? What about avoiding Jonny's scum games? About 'wait-and-see' with Jonny? Defending Jonny?
Somehow, Hopeless went from suki is scum I have a huge case with actual valid points to, 'i kinda still like suki for scum' with no explanation in between.
He also didn't talk about sidesprang yesterday and instead of pushing me or Jay just went with effectively a policy lynch.
Conclusion
I agree with Aqua, Hopeless looks a lot more scummy than LoneMeow. He's my number one scum read at the moment.
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On February 13 2014 00:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
I didnt really discuss the johnnylaw cases either.
perhaps not, but you did discuss sidesprang being scum and coag being town. I drifted through the entirety of day2 so yeah, i look really bad. starting filter dives now.
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Sure, knock yourself out Hopeless.
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Balla:
Obvious town. Major push on Jonny Day1, constant pressure on the thread in general. On February 07 2014 08:50 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:11 sidesprang wrote:
No, i've not played with him before. He said in his last game that he never had rolled scum I think. So will be hard to use meta on him I guess. Unless his game greatly differs from his previous ones. Sidesprang where did you go? Stuff started happening 5 minutes after this post and you have no opinions?
I don’t see this as scum-scum interaction. It is too ballsy to draw attention to a teammate when you can alert them via qt to get back in the thread asap.
Despite general apathy, balla continues to play right to the end of Day2 and actively seeks out more scum, ultimately securing a 2nd scum lynch with the help of Oats defending coag and generally beating the thread into submission.
I also like his vote-count analysis posts, especially because he isn’t hiding behind them as activity, he’s using them to springboard his broader ideas about the game and then focus in based on his conclusions.
Aquanim:
Was accused of defending Jonny day1 by Balla. Technically true, but I see aqua go on to pressure Jonny and subsequently find him to be scummy. He was initially on jayb, but then again most of the thread was at first. I don’t find anything scummy in the way that Day1 played out for aqua. Once he’s committed to his vote on Jonny he spends most of his time pushing Jonny’s lynch either by defending alternative candidates or trying to draw people to looking at Jonny’s scummy ways.
sidenote+ Show Spoiler + On February 08 2014 18:07 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 18:01 JonnyLaw wrote:On January 23 2014 05:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
This is not about VE, it's about you JL.
You have had Balla as top scumread all game but never tried to lynch him. On January 23 2014 05:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 23 2014 05:41 JonnyLaw wrote:
Activity is everything in how I read his play. Fuck, if he was active he'd make cases. If not, he's not making cases or doing anything. I don't get your point here. How many times did I say lynch Balla? You think I bussed him that hard since day 1? Even when kush could still be voted I wanted to vote balla.
I don't understand your obsession with a sentence.
So, calling him a scummy lurker for lack of activity. You didn't bus him hard. You soft bussed him. I already pointed out why his activity is closer to his scumgames than town games. Actually it pretty much matches his scumgames. So, why did you not really push your top scumread when your top townread told you his activity matches his scumgames? On January 23 2014 05:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 21 2014 23:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Like i just looked at his past games and: - town games - 19 and 23 pages of filter, a lot of oneliners, questions many people about his concerns, is clearly trying to find out what people think about what he thinks is important
- scum game - 7 pages of filter, more big irrelevant posts that are inclined to talk about what X thinks of Y and how it's right/wrong. no real pushing of his own ideas.
If i don't even think about the motivation behind Balla's posts in this game and just look at what he has said it looks exactly like he played mafia and nothing like his town play to me. Here, this dude is your fucking top scumread and you have nothing to say about this post JL. And i want to know why? Then I pushed jayb into oblivion last game. What do you say? Is what you're trying to say here that you don't want to push jayB because you were wrong about him in a previous game? I don't understand.
Coag:
Counter-wagon to sprang, was in all likelihood going to die and ended up being saved by Oats. Since they can’t be scum together, the simple answer is that coag was the scum mislynch for the day.
On February 12 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote:
Aquanim is defending sidesprang hard and making up illogical shit in the process. sidesprang Aquanim scum team
calling it now.
LoneMeow
This is more associative with flipped scum than with LM’s play, but Jonny had LoneMeow as scum for shifty reasons and LM was eager to point them out and pressure Jonny concerning why he was able to ignore LM’s filter yet call him scum for lurking.
Also the VCA from the Day2 lynch is quite appealing for a town-LoneMeow.
jaybrundage
Day1 sucked, Day2 was fantastic. Actually pushed sprang most of the day as a policy lynch (and called it as much) while trying to get coag to play. He later admits that he never really wanted to lynch sprang, just scare him a bit and then ends up voting him (three times lol) at the end of the day. I don’t see scum admitting they weren’t going to follow through on a policy lynch and then going through with it anyways.
Oatsmaster
Besides my initial read of Oats, he hard defended coag and lead the charge on sidesprang. If you don’t already think Oats is town, I’m not going to convince you.
Suki
Day1 case is in my filter.
Day2 she pushed coag all day and then meekly said On February 12 2014 00:25 suki wrote:
Hm...
Call it a hunch, but I'm going to go with Hopeless. I think Oats is town and I he's convinced me that sidesprang is the better lynch for today. I also feel like trusting his meta read on Coag.
I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis.
##unvote
##vote Sidesprang
Her filter is about 2/3 Day/Night 1 and 1/3 Day/Night 2 (I know Night2 isnt over yet, but the disparity is there)
Based on general activity and the sudden and unexpected switch to sprang she's definitely my top choice for scum.
Suki was once again seen defending the scum-lynch by saying they are contributing and deserve another day to prove themselves
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On February 13 2014 02:52 Hopeless1der wrote:SukiDay1 case is in my filter. Day2 she pushed coag all day and then meekly said Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 00:25 suki wrote:
Hm...
Call it a hunch, but I'm going to go with Hopeless. I think Oats is town and I he's convinced me that sidesprang is the better lynch for today. I also feel like trusting his meta read on Coag.
I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis.
##unvote
##vote Sidesprang Her filter is about 2/3 Day/Night 1 and 1/3 Day/Night 2 (I know Night2 isnt over yet, but the disparity is there) Based on general activity and the sudden and unexpected switch to sprang she's definitely my top choice for scum. Suki was once again seen defending the scum-lynch by saying they are contributing and deserve another day to prove themselves
You think she didn't mean for sidesprang to get lynched but put her vote there because she was confident that coag was going to get lynched without her? It's possible but seems pretty ballsy.
That's the only way I see suki being scum.
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well the wagon didnt gather steam until suki+you voted for sprang.
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Exactly. She was actually a springboard for me pushing sprang. Super ballsy to do that. She could have just said "man I see what you guys are saying about sidesprang but coag is just not playing, I have to kill him ##vote coag". Instead she would have taken a huge risk to vote sidesprang because she made it what 3-5?
That's evening out the playing fields pretty bad, if I was scum in her position there's NO WAY i'm taking that risk, and I really don't think suki would take that risk either.
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Pretty Colors
On February 09 2014 06:28 Toadesstern wrote:
Votecount:
JonnyLaw ( 8 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24, Oatsmaster, LoneMeow, Hopeless1der, Sidesprang, Hopeless1der, Coagulation
suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, jaybrundage
Koshi ( 1 ) : jaybrundage, JonnyLaW
jaybrundage ( 1 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Coagulation
Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki
Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24
Coagulation ( 0 ) : jaybrundage, Hopeless1der
Sidesprang ( 0 ) : Oatsmaster
DAY1 VCA:
My weaker townreads/ (only) scumread are the following players:
Aqua LM Jay Suki
Things to note:- Suki vs JayB
- Did Aqua or LM appear to be bussing Jonny?
[B]On February 12 2014 06:55 Toadesstern wrote:
Votecount:
Sidesprang ( 7 ) : Oatsmaster, Jaybrundage, Coagulation, suki, Balla24, LoneMeow, Aquanim, jaybrundage
Coagulation ( 2 ) : Suki, Aquanim, LoneMeow, jaybrundage, Hopeless1der, sidesprang, Aquanim
Oatsmaster ( 0 ) : Balla24, Aquanim
- Did Aqua or LM appear to be bussing sidesprang?
- Suki 'needed to give jay some space'
- Did jay deliver re: above? Was his vote on sprang contrived or did it seem genuine?
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I am not at all sold about jaybrundage being town.
Part 1: jaybrundage and JonnyLaw
On February 08 2014 02:03 jaybrundage wrote:In regards to balla's case on jonny. The first point it just seemed like jonny noticed your percentage thing. Assuming you were going to continue using that stuff. Looks like he saw you using it and assumed the post wasn't so serious. More of a null tell I would think. On the second point. I did mention him in my post. Part of the reason of me changing my playstyle was because Jonny was tunneling me so hard last game. I think he recognizes that he was tunneling a townie tho and felt a bit bad for it and is more hesitant to call me scum. I would agree with you that Jonny calling me scummy. But not going after me was weird. That does seem off. And the quotes where jonny goes after people he thinks are making excuses. But not going after me. Does seem off. Guess we will see how he continues to play. + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 13:39 Balla24 wrote:Alright, moving on. What do you guys think about JonnyLaw? I'm very weary on him. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:25 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote:
@jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
@suki, that implies that you think jaybrundage is town, even though I am clearly 2.5% less likely to be scum than he is. I appreciate the effort you put into that post man. It's funny but you're trying to force it into being more distracting than Koshi's post last game. What the fuck? The post he quotes here is completely irrelevant to my probability mafia post. This was literally the first time I was not being trolly in this game. I know the things I was referring to were trolly and joky, but I wanted to start the game at that point, and they were interesting enough initial thoughts to question their motives behind it. Why does he think i'm forcing anything and distracting anything. That was literally the start of the first discussion of the game yet he doesn't even really read it. He even moves into quoting one of my more trolly posts afterwards ("I declare myself king") and calls it funny, even though it was way more distracting than anything else I did. Moving on: Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:40 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote:
@jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. Overall you had a good game. You had one comment early that tripped my scum radar. I think along the lines of "in newer games people need motivation to post." Then you proceeded to try and take over the town. I felt like you were scum trying to take over the town. Bah, you should have been scum. There were plenty moments where jonny talks about something irrelevant and not helpful to the game with the facade that it is "getting the game started" and "not talking about policy". This post here could have literally happened in post-game and pre-game, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. There is absolutely NO relevance to jay's alignment in this game. In fact, all it does is help jay if he's scum. There's more moments like this, specifically the Aqua stuff. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:33 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:58 Balla24 wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote:
@jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. You're making so many excuses for no reason. Why would you tryharding last game have anything to do with this game or how tough it's going to be? In fact, what are you trying to say when you say you "tryharded the shit out of last game"? What, are you implying you're not going to tryhard the shit out of this game, why not? Scumhunting is scumhunting. Sure there's not much to talk about on day1 but that's where you make stuff to talk about and then scumhunt from there. There has been no effort to do that. Instead, all you have done is called my first post "icky", which was 100% totally intended to do just that, get people to start talking and scumhunting from the get go which should be pretty obvious to everybody, but for some reason you decided it was icky and then make excuses for what I can only assume is going to be bad scumhunting on day 1. On February 07 2014 07:32 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote:
@jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
@suki, that implies that you think jaybrundage is town, even though I am clearly 2.5% less likely to be scum than he is. That first post. Ugh I'm still feeling icky from it. Your first post was obviously pre-written. It's not "icky" but it's not alignment indicative. You'd post the same thing as scum or town. The sections you highlighted in his posts make me feel wary. They're scummy sure. Does that make him scum? On February 07 2014 08:01 Balla24 wrote:On February 07 2014 07:51 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:47 Koshi wrote:
Mine is very real. Super real.
you feel off. I feel off. What a non committal post. After you say your vote is real. You make a terrible comment like that. I think what you mean to say. Is that you think I'm scum. BUT your scum so you know that not to be true and your waffling like crazy. Because even when you say the vote is real. Your very next line shows you have no conviction about it. Koshi is scum. I caught one :D In fact, this post is so very scummy. If you are town, your reaction to these "fake votes" would be completely different. You would be confused and curious as to what they find scummy about what you said, or you would just think that it's totally trolly and ignore it. Here you find it is scummy? What cause he thinks you feel off? Your response should have been "what feels off about me then oh wise one koshi" and not "you're scum". I actually agree with Jay here. I don't give a shit about votes an hour into the game. Here he says that he finds Jay's excuse-making and self-doubt "weary" but doesn't think it makes him scum (or at least that's what I gather from him asking "does that make him scum?" after literally saying "it's scummy sure", which is really weird in itself). This is in direct contrast to what I know of town jonny. The guy LOVES to pick at this stuff. + Show Spoiler [Quotes from jonny town games] +On January 20 2014 11:40 JonnyLaw wrote:
Ve's full of shit.
He was this active last game. Making excuses for his posting now.
##vote visceral eyes
On January 06 2014 15:21 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 15:13 theDragoon wrote:
@Balla24
About the random accusation thing, a bunch of people started ##voting random people. It's my first time playing this so I'm assuming doing that in the thread that early in the game just seems really random to me when there isn't much information to go on. I assume that by ##voting that they are serious with those accusations, so excuse me if doing that randomly in the thread is something that's very common and isn't meant to be taken 100% serious.
Also, on Day_Walker he seems to have good intentions.Calling out TheChyz as the only possible scum on the list seems like a bandwagon hop to me but TheChyz has been suspicious so it's something I agree with. His read on me I find is a bit unnecessary and does not really prove that I am a townie. I'm sure everyone playing this game is not afraid to disagree and standing up for yourself is something everyone does. He might just be including me on the list because I've posted a bit but his reasoning behind me as a townie really has no foundation. You're not saying anything with authority. You're hesitant and making excuses throughout that post. What are your opinions so far? I don't care how other people feel about you or if it's your first game. That doesn't matter. On January 06 2014 15:30 JonnyLaw wrote:I'll be on tomorrow at a more reasonable time. At this point we have three players who've posted nothing. Fine, we have 30+ hours till day ends. I hate this post and generally everything in Asuna's filter. Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 14:16 Asuna wrote:On January 06 2014 08:38 Balla24 wrote:
Thread is dying fast... need backup ASAP.
I also am not too fond of Asuna's entry, but there's nothing really scummy about it. I just feel you have opportunities to enlighten me about yourself and your opinions but you are hiding behind one liners for some reason. I'm just concise with my answers. I was asked pretty direct and narrowish questions so I gave pretty direct and narrowish answers. Also keeping track of everything in forum mafia is surprisingly different, so hopefully I didn't miss anything I'm supposed to be replying to from the last couple of pages. Basically I've played a bit of mafia, am probably terrible at reading people, but TheChyz does seem a bit fishy for the reasons Day_Walker said. Might be too early to tell though. Excuses, bandwagoning and self doubt in one line. I'm down to lynch Asuna or OWB at this point. Dragoon and Chyz read more as if they're trying but misguided. On December 03 2013 07:24 JonnyLaw wrote:Rean - Votes yorick, claims vt and roleplays liftlift. Could be scum lurking. Austin talks about champ abilities and not wanting town to role claim. I'm not certain role claiming is the best policy either. Maybe I'm missing something but these two are lurking harder than gtrs. Mocsta is making a lot of excuses. Busy, in mylo etc... I generally agree with Roffles and Mocsta about gtrs. + Show Spoiler +On December 02 2013 15:08 Roffles wrote:
I think gtrsrs just doesn't give a fuck anymore because he didn't get his champ of choice and is stuck as a vanilla townie.
To me it all makes sense cause I know he probably just picked a champ he likes playing in the actual game (Khazix) and seemed cool in terms of skills here (he announced he was doing this too), but wasn't able to grab him and now just starts screwing around cause he's got nothing better to do.
MZ wants gtrs lynched and then spends the rest of his posts defending himself. If this is a popular sentiment and he was a proponent of it early why is he getting so much flak? Are mocsta and MZ arguing for some personal reasons? Why did you want me to read these filters. The first two say nothing and the second two are just arguing. Rayn thinks MZ's contradicting himself but the first couple days I thought Rayn posted okay for the most part. I'm more confused about them at this point than anything. tldr Rean and Austin are useless right now because they're doing nothing. Mocsta's making excuses without them being asked. Could be scummy. MZ's spending all his time on defense. This is the opposite of how soniv approached aggression directed his way. That's why I liked soniv for town earlier. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 09:13 JonnyLaw wrote:
Koshi went to sleep. Are you reading this thread Balla? Then this. This is just blatantly not reading the thread. I was asked by jaybrundage to make a "town case" on koshi, so I did so. I even quoted what I was responding to. Yet he tells me I'M not reading the thread. This ticks me off ^_^.
On February 08 2014 11:10 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 09:57 Aquanim wrote:
@JayB: So far as I can see, Jonny hasn't pushed any reads so far and I don't think he's trying to learn more about other players through his posts. Why do you think Alakaslam is a better lynch than him? Your right jonny's lack of thread presence is troubling. I didn't think he was that scummy with his early game posts. But not pushing anyone or having any real reads means he could very well be scum.
On February 10 2014 05:05 jaybrundage wrote:In response to + Show Spoiler +On February 10 2014 03:17 Balla24 wrote:
There's a big problem here in that out of Jaybrundage/Suki, both had very similar non logical progressions on Jonny. Both wanted to see "more" from him, both saw him as scummy later in the day but didn't switch to him.
I feel that Suki's progression makes more sense. She was pushing jaybrundage hard because she thought he was scum.
Jay's doesn't really follow. It was clear that Jonny was going to get lynched, and he doesn't really share his opinions, he OMGUS vs suki and then his thread presence during the lynch was non-existent. There was no thoughts on the lynch DURING the lynch which I find really surprising for jay. He kind of accepted it and stuck on a useless suki vote, didn't try to push it on anybody else etc etc. He wasn't doing anything even though he should have been doing something, as though it was a lost cause.
I really do feel like we have a scum within suki/jay though, so if we lynch within them we have 50% chance on either. Whereas out of the jonny voters I think we are getting more to a 25% chance or so to hit the scum.
Although if I'm wrong about this. There's actually 2 scum in the jonny vote and therefore we have closer to a 50% chance of hitting scum in there. I can't decide whether I'd like to lynch within the jonny voters or within jay/suki. Yea I was a bit of a mess later on in day 1. I didn't feel convicted with jonny being scum. I had an early town read on him. I thought you and Koshi were scum and when jonny was agreeing with my thinking it made me think he was town. I was using the heuristic that people who think similarly to me were more likely to be the same alignment as me. However I was wrong with ya'll being scum and similarly with Jonny being town. So yea my reads were all pretty bad early day 1. I began to see jonny as nuller as the day went on. But I never felt that he was sure scum or anything. Then when I got too the thread in the near end of the day. I felt scared to contribute as I didn't want to attract unwanted attention by saying the wrong thing and getting mislynched. I had had a pretty shitty day 1 so I was being pretty cautious. This is a bit of a scummy mind set but I didn't really have much conviction on jonny. I was still pretty null on him. I felt going to the thread and waffling would look bad. So in the end when I commented I didn't mention him at all. As I had nothing of use to add. Instead I commented on other people of interest. I could of moved my vote to jonny. But it felt like it was an empty action. What would be the point of it. He was getting lynched and I had nothing to add or much of opinion that was worth voicing. Alot of this hesitancy stemmed from my bad day 1 and at that point in the game. I was fine with my strong town reads: Balla, Aqua having the reins to the lynch wagon. My biggest concern after my botched start was not to get mislynched tho as opposed to trying to lead a lynch. I tried with who I thought was scum at the beginning. But after that went badly I just wanted to make sure town didn't get a mislynch on me. So that should explain my end of the day play I believe. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I might not be back respond till after the night is over tho.
The first post is kinda-sorta soft defense of JonnyLaw but carefully avoids saying whether he thinks JonnyLaw is scum or not.
The second is a really weak agreement that JonnyLaw "could be scum".
And then there's the huge "excuses and apologies" post where he states that he never had JonnyLaw as scum - how does this work with the previous? And what's the point of stating that you "could of moved your vote" if you honestly didn't think he was scummy, you'd have voted him just because everyone else was voting him? The post is just overall terrible with statements like "My biggest concern after my botched start was not to get mislynched" - as town you find scum and lynch scum, not care about appearances.
Part 2: jaybrundage and sidesprang
On February 10 2014 14:18 jaybrundage wrote:
So guis we should totes lynch Sidesprang. I looked over Oat's filter briefly leaning town atm. It's not based on anything particularly just feels. It's hard to get a good read on Oats as his post's are mostly one liners.
So I shall join you Oats on Sidesprang.
@Sidesprang. I am gonna policy lynch your ass. There also is a decent chance your scum. So yea. Give me some reason to keep you alive.
On February 10 2014 16:09 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 16:04 LoneMeow wrote:On February 10 2014 15:30 LoneMeow wrote:
Between you and suki I'd prefer lynching suki right now, I'll get to the reasons when I finish reading things. Right, so suki's thought process about JonnyLaw is just plain scummy. Note that at some points she claims JonnyLaw is her second lynch choice, yet she doesn't seem interested in pressuring him at all or trying to figure out his alignment. Then there's the "second chance" thing. You don't give second chances to players you think are scum. I find your stance somewhat easier to see coming from a badly tunneled town. suki, your stance on JonnyLaw before the lynch is really vague. Did you, or did you not, think he was scum? I agree whole heartily. If Coag is just useless townie (unlikely) who else do you think you would plug as scum.
On February 10 2014 16:11 jaybrundage wrote:
Bleh I wanted to vote Coag after I saw his terrible reasoning for his 99% crap. But I also wanna pressure sidesprang T_T
Oh well
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED SIDESPRANG!!!
On February 11 2014 08:24 jaybrundage wrote:In response to + Show Spoiler +On February 11 2014 02:02 suki wrote:Jay's questions directed at Coag: Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 14:28 jaybrundage wrote:
Let's talk I want you to start posting we can't get a read of you if you lurk.
Why do you think I'm scum? What do you think of Oats, Suki, Hopeless, Sidesprang.
I have nothing to read you with. Please fix this. Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 15:26 jaybrundage wrote:Hei lonemeow. Lets chat. What do you think of Oats, Hopeless1der and Sidesprang? What is your opinion of me and Suki right now? Is balla too townie to be townie. Should we kill him for the lulz + Show Spoiler + Hi Jay, I notice you're asking about four players specifically. Can you please let me know why these four (I have an idea just want to let you answer it)? Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 14:18 jaybrundage wrote:
So guis we should totes lynch Sidesprang. I looked over Oat's filter briefly leaning town atm. It's not based on anything particularly just feels. It's hard to get a good read on Oats as his post's are mostly one liners.
So I shall join you Oats on Sidesprang.
@Sidesprang. I am gonna policy lynch your ass. There also is a decent chance your scum. So yea. Give me some reason to keep you alive. You voted sidesprang as a 'policy lynch'. First off, why was it a policy lynch? Second, what are your thoughts on him right now? What are your own thoughts on Oats, Hopeless and LoneMeow? Welp as you may have guessed I am not as sure on the alignment of the players I am asking about. I might be leaning on them a certain way in regards to their alignment but not very sure on any of them. So I want other people's thoughts so I can get a better read on them. I think Oats is likely town. Similar style of last game. Doesn't seem to be bothered by the pressure that Aqua and Balla were putting on him. Seems reasonable carefree. Hopeless1der is a player I am not sure on again. A common trait in the people I mentioned. Leaning town because he is playing so differently from last scum game. He seems to be thinking about the game. Doesn't post alot which makes it trickier to read him. Lonemeow is someone I feel that is posting very similar to his last game as town. So stands to reason he is town again this game. Seems to be reading up on the game. Posting his questions and little reads. I wanted to push Sidesprang as a policy lynch because he has the smallest filter atm. I want him to post more he doesn't put enough content in the thread. I have a hard time reading him just because of that. However Coag's terrible play is just screaming for a lynch. So I couldn't proceed with my original play of pressuring Sidesprang. I had no intention to actually try to get people to lynch him. I just wanted him to realize that he can be policy lynch material because of his lurker tendencies this game. My scum reads should be well known. I believe Suki that you are similar to Hopeless1der in that you will be the best scum on the team and therefore the hardest to lynch. You play can read either good town Or good scum and that what makes it difficult. Your play if you are scum is also comparable to scum marv. You don't do overtly scummy things that make you an easy lynch. You play using reasoning and meta and all that good stuff.
On February 11 2014 11:55 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 23:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
Coag is totally an angry lynch by people who are angry. dont do it!! Can you expand on this Oats. I think Coag is a coin flip basically with more of a chance to land on scum. Maybe like 70-30. Who would you propose we vote instead do you still like sidesprang for a lynch. What about Suki?
On February 12 2014 06:54 jaybrundage wrote:
I also think Oats is pretty townie sticking his neck out like that. But he had a town read and defended so that looks pretty good on him. I'm not sure about Sidesprang being scum or not. Difficult to read him.
Here the first post implies that jaybrundage thinks there's a good chance that sidesprang is scum. So why policy lynch? Why not lynch him for being scum?
The next post pretty much states that he also thinks Coagulation is scum.
"I wanted to pressure sidesprang" - that just makes no sense, it's not like you can't pressure him even without voting him at that very moment, and you could very well have voted him at that time, as there was plenty of time until lynch to switch if necessary.
The last few posts imply that he never actually thought that sidesprang was scum after all. Followed by:
On February 12 2014 06:52 jaybrundage wrote:
Sidesprang not being in the thread when hes about to be lynched doesn't look so great.
Coag could be town reading up on him. I do find it odd that he asked for a vig shot and then got angry when people were gonna lynch him.
##Unvote
##Vote Sidesprang
Lets hope for the best.
Now why would you vote the person you never actually wanted people to lynch if the best you can say about the other choice is "could be town"?
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Jay, could you please explain your views on me from the start of N1 where you made the case saying I was most likely scum, to the end of Day 2?
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EPT
