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I think it's a bit of a logical leap to assume that since you don't have a read on annul, syllogism can't have a read on annul.
The first thing you do when townies die, is to re-read the game with the knowledge they're town. Town lost cosmic horror because after the most pro-town people were dead, town ignored everything we said. I didn't say a word about annul until syllo flipped. But if you read their exchange during the night, the fact that annul claims a shot and annul's generally worse posting than in XLVII, I think you'll come to the same conclusion as me.
Notice that in XLVII there was a fuckton of controversial stuff surrounding me as well, but in that game annul was one of the people who easily saw past the clusterfuck that was town, and managed to make sense of the situation. This game he seems to be pretty happy riding a fairly dumb train onto me.
##Vote annul
Regarding your analysis against Mattchew, I think there's not enough information from him on the table to accurately judge him at the moment. He did make the right call when he flat out refused to vote for me, that doesn't mean he's town though, because scum know my alignment.
I think killing off annul is going to clear up a lot of issues. Especially regarding my own alignment.
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On December 07 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 20:38 Radfield wrote:
Palmar, I don't think it all that heinously unlikely a town medic would target annul. However, 2 people claiming roleblock seems too high, which makes me think we might have a jailkeeper. But of course if we have a jailkeeper we don't have 2 medics.
More importantly, does Annul look like scum? I honestly can't tell. I can certainly see a lot of mafia motivation in his posts and actions(jumping on Palmar, casting suspicion on me multiple times, thinking Soap was red and then getting super upset when he died), but his tone looks genuine.
I actually agree here. If I were a medic I probably would have protected rad or annul. I was sitting there yesterday, looking at rads list and thoubt about our options. Syllo was kind of weird. Everyone said he's doing fine but I can't see a lot he did for town, so he was a nullread for me. Palmar was not going to be shot no matter what. He screwed day1 and still a lot of people think he's mafia (he calls them bad but players but still). Why would mafia want to hit that? What's left on rads list would be me, rad and annul. As I'm talking about what I would have done as medic I obviously am not able to protect myself. So it would be either rad or annul. Yeah a close one, I think rad's more important if he's town but some people attacked him and called him out. While palmar gets called out mostly by new players those guys who question his style are more experienced players. I think red, jackal and erandorr kinda-a-fosed him? So I'd either protected rad or hoped they let him live because there's some people attacking him. This goes out to V7: Annul claimed he got shot and protected. Did you get shot and protected? Dza... already claimed he protected you so if you got shot as well it would be some weird 3KP mafia + vigi which makes 4 KP (syllo, ss, annul, V7). Right now it looks like annul was the 3rd KP of mafia or shot by a vigi or he's a liar. Your answer to that question would at least give us some information V7.
Syllo was far more pro-town than anyone else on Rad's list. I think I said back on day 1 I was willing to sheep him because I had a strong town read on him.
As for the v7 thing, that doesn't even make sense. v7 would already have claimed it if he was hit. Trust me on this one, mafia does not have 3kp in this setup. They have 2kp and annul was shot by a vigilante, and I think that vigilante was mr. syllogism.
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On December 07 2011 22:47 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:On December 07 2011 20:38 Radfield wrote:
Palmar, I don't think it all that heinously unlikely a town medic would target annul. However, 2 people claiming roleblock seems too high, which makes me think we might have a jailkeeper. But of course if we have a jailkeeper we don't have 2 medics.
More importantly, does Annul look like scum? I honestly can't tell. I can certainly see a lot of mafia motivation in his posts and actions(jumping on Palmar, casting suspicion on me multiple times, thinking Soap was red and then getting super upset when he died), but his tone looks genuine.
I actually agree here. If I were a medic I probably would have protected rad or annul. I was sitting there yesterday, looking at rads list and thoubt about our options. Syllo was kind of weird. Everyone said he's doing fine but I can't see a lot he did for town, so he was a nullread for me. Palmar was not going to be shot no matter what. He screwed day1 and still a lot of people think he's mafia (he calls them bad but players but still). Why would mafia want to hit that? What's left on rads list would be me, rad and annul. As I'm talking about what I would have done as medic I obviously am not able to protect myself. So it would be either rad or annul. Yeah a close one, I think rad's more important if he's town but some people attacked him and called him out. While palmar gets called out mostly by new players those guys who question his style are more experienced players. I think red, jackal and erandorr kinda-a-fosed him? So I'd either protected rad or hoped they let him live because there's some people attacking him. This goes out to V7: Annul claimed he got shot and protected. Did you get shot and protected? Dza... already claimed he protected you so if you got shot as well it would be some weird 3KP mafia + vigi which makes 4 KP (syllo, ss, annul, V7). Right now it looks like annul was the 3rd KP of mafia or shot by a vigi or he's a liar. Your answer to that question would at least give us some information V7. Syllo was far more pro-town than anyone else on Rad's list. I think I said back on day 1 I was willing to sheep him because I had a strong town read on him. As for the v7 thing, that doesn't even make sense. v7 would already have claimed it if he was hit. Trust me on this one, mafia does not have 3kp in this setup. They have 2kp and annul was shot by a vigilante, and I think that vigilante was mr. syllogism.
Why do you think mafia got 2KP? The usual thing is (#mafia / 2) rounded up so I thought it's not that far-fetched to believe they got 3KP.
Also vigi's can't shoot n1 can they? Last game (the 80player thing) I was a vigi for the first time and it specifically said I can't shoot n1 and I had to wait until n2 to shoot the fuck out of Drazerk.
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On December 07 2011 22:53 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 22:47 Palmar wrote:On December 07 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:On December 07 2011 20:38 Radfield wrote:
Palmar, I don't think it all that heinously unlikely a town medic would target annul. However, 2 people claiming roleblock seems too high, which makes me think we might have a jailkeeper. But of course if we have a jailkeeper we don't have 2 medics.
More importantly, does Annul look like scum? I honestly can't tell. I can certainly see a lot of mafia motivation in his posts and actions(jumping on Palmar, casting suspicion on me multiple times, thinking Soap was red and then getting super upset when he died), but his tone looks genuine.
I actually agree here. If I were a medic I probably would have protected rad or annul. I was sitting there yesterday, looking at rads list and thoubt about our options. Syllo was kind of weird. Everyone said he's doing fine but I can't see a lot he did for town, so he was a nullread for me. Palmar was not going to be shot no matter what. He screwed day1 and still a lot of people think he's mafia (he calls them bad but players but still). Why would mafia want to hit that? What's left on rads list would be me, rad and annul. As I'm talking about what I would have done as medic I obviously am not able to protect myself. So it would be either rad or annul. Yeah a close one, I think rad's more important if he's town but some people attacked him and called him out. While palmar gets called out mostly by new players those guys who question his style are more experienced players. I think red, jackal and erandorr kinda-a-fosed him? So I'd either protected rad or hoped they let him live because there's some people attacking him. This goes out to V7: Annul claimed he got shot and protected. Did you get shot and protected? Dza... already claimed he protected you so if you got shot as well it would be some weird 3KP mafia + vigi which makes 4 KP (syllo, ss, annul, V7). Right now it looks like annul was the 3rd KP of mafia or shot by a vigi or he's a liar. Your answer to that question would at least give us some information V7. Syllo was far more pro-town than anyone else on Rad's list. I think I said back on day 1 I was willing to sheep him because I had a strong town read on him. As for the v7 thing, that doesn't even make sense. v7 would already have claimed it if he was hit. Trust me on this one, mafia does not have 3kp in this setup. They have 2kp and annul was shot by a vigilante, and I think that vigilante was mr. syllogism. Why do you think mafia got 2KP? The usual thing is (#mafia / 2) rounded up so I thought it's not that far-fetched to believe they got 3KP. Also vigi's can't shoot n1 can they? Last game (the 80player thing) I was a vigi for the first time and it specifically said I can't shoot n1 and I had to wait until n2 to shoot the fuck out of Drazerk.
The usual amount of mafia in a 25 player game is 5, which is probably why we have things like my double vote, as the mafia are 6 in this game.
And your last game was the exception, vigilantes can always shoot night 1 unless specified otherwise (and there is no limitation of any sort in syllo's role, except him only being able to fire one shot per night).
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(I placed my anon vote on annul, ZBot can process it now, so it should update faster if I decide to change it).
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On December 07 2011 22:57 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 22:53 Toadesstern wrote:On December 07 2011 22:47 Palmar wrote:On December 07 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:On December 07 2011 20:38 Radfield wrote:
Palmar, I don't think it all that heinously unlikely a town medic would target annul. However, 2 people claiming roleblock seems too high, which makes me think we might have a jailkeeper. But of course if we have a jailkeeper we don't have 2 medics.
More importantly, does Annul look like scum? I honestly can't tell. I can certainly see a lot of mafia motivation in his posts and actions(jumping on Palmar, casting suspicion on me multiple times, thinking Soap was red and then getting super upset when he died), but his tone looks genuine.
I actually agree here. If I were a medic I probably would have protected rad or annul. I was sitting there yesterday, looking at rads list and thoubt about our options. Syllo was kind of weird. Everyone said he's doing fine but I can't see a lot he did for town, so he was a nullread for me. Palmar was not going to be shot no matter what. He screwed day1 and still a lot of people think he's mafia (he calls them bad but players but still). Why would mafia want to hit that? What's left on rads list would be me, rad and annul. As I'm talking about what I would have done as medic I obviously am not able to protect myself. So it would be either rad or annul. Yeah a close one, I think rad's more important if he's town but some people attacked him and called him out. While palmar gets called out mostly by new players those guys who question his style are more experienced players. I think red, jackal and erandorr kinda-a-fosed him? So I'd either protected rad or hoped they let him live because there's some people attacking him. This goes out to V7: Annul claimed he got shot and protected. Did you get shot and protected? Dza... already claimed he protected you so if you got shot as well it would be some weird 3KP mafia + vigi which makes 4 KP (syllo, ss, annul, V7). Right now it looks like annul was the 3rd KP of mafia or shot by a vigi or he's a liar. Your answer to that question would at least give us some information V7. Syllo was far more pro-town than anyone else on Rad's list. I think I said back on day 1 I was willing to sheep him because I had a strong town read on him. As for the v7 thing, that doesn't even make sense. v7 would already have claimed it if he was hit. Trust me on this one, mafia does not have 3kp in this setup. They have 2kp and annul was shot by a vigilante, and I think that vigilante was mr. syllogism. Why do you think mafia got 2KP? The usual thing is (#mafia / 2) rounded up so I thought it's not that far-fetched to believe they got 3KP. Also vigi's can't shoot n1 can they? Last game (the 80player thing) I was a vigi for the first time and it specifically said I can't shoot n1 and I had to wait until n2 to shoot the fuck out of Drazerk. The usual amount of mafia in a 25 player game is 5, which is probably why we have things like my double vote, as the mafia are 6 in this game. [...]
Do mafias have 2 KP like you said in those 25v5 setups or 3KP? That's the important question.
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On December 07 2011 23:01 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 22:57 Palmar wrote:On December 07 2011 22:53 Toadesstern wrote:On December 07 2011 22:47 Palmar wrote:On December 07 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:On December 07 2011 20:38 Radfield wrote:
Palmar, I don't think it all that heinously unlikely a town medic would target annul. However, 2 people claiming roleblock seems too high, which makes me think we might have a jailkeeper. But of course if we have a jailkeeper we don't have 2 medics.
More importantly, does Annul look like scum? I honestly can't tell. I can certainly see a lot of mafia motivation in his posts and actions(jumping on Palmar, casting suspicion on me multiple times, thinking Soap was red and then getting super upset when he died), but his tone looks genuine.
I actually agree here. If I were a medic I probably would have protected rad or annul. I was sitting there yesterday, looking at rads list and thoubt about our options. Syllo was kind of weird. Everyone said he's doing fine but I can't see a lot he did for town, so he was a nullread for me. Palmar was not going to be shot no matter what. He screwed day1 and still a lot of people think he's mafia (he calls them bad but players but still). Why would mafia want to hit that? What's left on rads list would be me, rad and annul. As I'm talking about what I would have done as medic I obviously am not able to protect myself. So it would be either rad or annul. Yeah a close one, I think rad's more important if he's town but some people attacked him and called him out. While palmar gets called out mostly by new players those guys who question his style are more experienced players. I think red, jackal and erandorr kinda-a-fosed him? So I'd either protected rad or hoped they let him live because there's some people attacking him. This goes out to V7: Annul claimed he got shot and protected. Did you get shot and protected? Dza... already claimed he protected you so if you got shot as well it would be some weird 3KP mafia + vigi which makes 4 KP (syllo, ss, annul, V7). Right now it looks like annul was the 3rd KP of mafia or shot by a vigi or he's a liar. Your answer to that question would at least give us some information V7. Syllo was far more pro-town than anyone else on Rad's list. I think I said back on day 1 I was willing to sheep him because I had a strong town read on him. As for the v7 thing, that doesn't even make sense. v7 would already have claimed it if he was hit. Trust me on this one, mafia does not have 3kp in this setup. They have 2kp and annul was shot by a vigilante, and I think that vigilante was mr. syllogism. Why do you think mafia got 2KP? The usual thing is (#mafia / 2) rounded up so I thought it's not that far-fetched to believe they got 3KP. Also vigi's can't shoot n1 can they? Last game (the 80player thing) I was a vigi for the first time and it specifically said I can't shoot n1 and I had to wait until n2 to shoot the fuck out of Drazerk. The usual amount of mafia in a 25 player game is 5, which is probably why we have things like my double vote, as the mafia are 6 in this game. [...] Do mafias have 2 KP like you said in those 25v5 setups or 3KP? That's the important question.
in 20 vs 5 mafia usually has 3 kp until 1 mafia is dead, although it's not a rule. in 19 v 6, I have a hard time mafia KP rule applies because it means we'd have to kill 2 mafia to get it down to 2 kp.
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On December 07 2011 23:03 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 23:01 Toadesstern wrote:On December 07 2011 22:57 Palmar wrote:On December 07 2011 22:53 Toadesstern wrote:On December 07 2011 22:47 Palmar wrote:On December 07 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:On December 07 2011 20:38 Radfield wrote:
Palmar, I don't think it all that heinously unlikely a town medic would target annul. However, 2 people claiming roleblock seems too high, which makes me think we might have a jailkeeper. But of course if we have a jailkeeper we don't have 2 medics.
More importantly, does Annul look like scum? I honestly can't tell. I can certainly see a lot of mafia motivation in his posts and actions(jumping on Palmar, casting suspicion on me multiple times, thinking Soap was red and then getting super upset when he died), but his tone looks genuine.
I actually agree here. If I were a medic I probably would have protected rad or annul. I was sitting there yesterday, looking at rads list and thoubt about our options. Syllo was kind of weird. Everyone said he's doing fine but I can't see a lot he did for town, so he was a nullread for me. Palmar was not going to be shot no matter what. He screwed day1 and still a lot of people think he's mafia (he calls them bad but players but still). Why would mafia want to hit that? What's left on rads list would be me, rad and annul. As I'm talking about what I would have done as medic I obviously am not able to protect myself. So it would be either rad or annul. Yeah a close one, I think rad's more important if he's town but some people attacked him and called him out. While palmar gets called out mostly by new players those guys who question his style are more experienced players. I think red, jackal and erandorr kinda-a-fosed him? So I'd either protected rad or hoped they let him live because there's some people attacking him. This goes out to V7: Annul claimed he got shot and protected. Did you get shot and protected? Dza... already claimed he protected you so if you got shot as well it would be some weird 3KP mafia + vigi which makes 4 KP (syllo, ss, annul, V7). Right now it looks like annul was the 3rd KP of mafia or shot by a vigi or he's a liar. Your answer to that question would at least give us some information V7. Syllo was far more pro-town than anyone else on Rad's list. I think I said back on day 1 I was willing to sheep him because I had a strong town read on him. As for the v7 thing, that doesn't even make sense. v7 would already have claimed it if he was hit. Trust me on this one, mafia does not have 3kp in this setup. They have 2kp and annul was shot by a vigilante, and I think that vigilante was mr. syllogism. Why do you think mafia got 2KP? The usual thing is (#mafia / 2) rounded up so I thought it's not that far-fetched to believe they got 3KP. Also vigi's can't shoot n1 can they? Last game (the 80player thing) I was a vigi for the first time and it specifically said I can't shoot n1 and I had to wait until n2 to shoot the fuck out of Drazerk. The usual amount of mafia in a 25 player game is 5, which is probably why we have things like my double vote, as the mafia are 6 in this game. [...] Do mafias have 2 KP like you said in those 25v5 setups or 3KP? That's the important question. in 20 vs 5 mafia usually has 3 kp until 1 mafia is dead, although it's not a rule. in 19 v 6, I have a hard time mafia KP rule applies because it means we'd have to kill 2 mafia to get it down to 2 kp.
O right, I took those 25for townies for some reason. Yeah obviosuly 20v5 is easier than 19vs6 because it's one townie more and one mafia more. So yeah my bad that makes much more sense now.
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kingjames, keep in mind that when palmar started his whole lie that there was a small wag,on forming on me for voting corrupt. I said my notes are bad and then he lied to push the issue. He was never in danger of being labeled the start of a wagon. What he did was lie in the optertunistic fashion possible and then trolled till the days end to avoid getting lynched. A town player would have just voted for me as that would have most certainly placed me in the running for being lynched.
He is a lair, he is purposefully unhelpful, and he is scum.
His play during the night was a calculated move to transition to a non troll state to avoid a policy lynch situation today.
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I recieved no notice of any action vs me last night.
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Ok next thing came to my mind: How likely is it that there's two different medic roles in this game?
Drazerk claimed he's a RB-immun-Medic that has to claim n1 as far as I recall. At least that's the reason he claimed I think.
He said he protected V7 and yet we have, according to annul a successful save that's not V7. So that means we got a 2nd medic in this game if both claims are correct. The 2nd medic however does not seem to have to claim like Drazerk did.
On top of that I still think mafia would like to get something like V7's role out of this game. A dayvig that's able to also do other stuff is pretty awesome. Radfield already mentioned the Chances of a Mafia visit on V7 are like 99%. Do you really think mafia let's a claimed blue role that has already proven that he's not bullshitting alive?
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On December 07 2011 23:07 vaderseven wrote:
kingjames, keep in mind that when palmar started his whole lie that there was a small wag,on forming on me for voting corrupt. I said my notes are bad and then he lied to push the issue. He was never in danger of being labeled the start of a wagon. What he did was lie in the optertunistic fashion possible and then trolled till the days end to avoid getting lynched. A town player would have just voted for me as that would have most certainly placed me in the running for being lynched.
He is a lair, he is purposefully unhelpful, and he is scum.
His play during the night was a calculated move to transition to a non troll state to avoid a policy lynch situation today.
Two issues with this post. One is that simply voting you and moving on is actually very anti-town. All I wanted was to get you to post your notes, as has been pointed out multiple times. I didn't want you lynched, I wanted to know your alignment and check if you were lying about the notes.
The second is that you call my transition to normal play a calculated move, I wonder what I could have done in order to get you to start believing I'm town? Or are you just that far tunneled in because you're projecting your anger at yourself for being rash yesterday onto me, that you're clinging to the desperate hope I'm scum so you can have some justification, if only to call me bad.
I assume that if I kept trolling, you'd have said I was scum too, and when I stopped trolling, I'm also scum. What are the requirements for you to actually give the game a second read?
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You should know better than this redFF. this makes me more sure
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On December 07 2011 23:15 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok next thing came to my mind: How likely is it that there's two different medic roles in this game?
Drazerk claimed he's a RB-immun-Medic that has to claim n1 as far as I recall. At least that's the reason he claimed I think.
He said he protected V7 and yet we have, according to annul a successful save that's not V7. So that means we got a 2nd medic in this game if both claims are correct. The 2nd medic however does not seem to have to claim like Drazerk did.
On top of that I still think mafia would like to get something like V7's role out of this game. A dayvig that's able to also do other stuff is pretty awesome. Radfield already mentioned the Chances of a Mafia visit on V7 are like 99%. Do you really think mafia let's a claimed blue role that has already proven that he's not bullshitting alive?
Drazerk's claim may as well be bollocks. If you think I troll mafia games, you should read Drazerk's history of playing. It doesn't even tell us anything about his alignment if he's lying. However, after what has happened I'm more willing to believe he's not scum, although trying to tell his alignment is kinda.... meh.
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On December 07 2011 23:21 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 23:15 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok next thing came to my mind: How likely is it that there's two different medic roles in this game?
Drazerk claimed he's a RB-immun-Medic that has to claim n1 as far as I recall. At least that's the reason he claimed I think.
He said he protected V7 and yet we have, according to annul a successful save that's not V7. So that means we got a 2nd medic in this game if both claims are correct. The 2nd medic however does not seem to have to claim like Drazerk did.
On top of that I still think mafia would like to get something like V7's role out of this game. A dayvig that's able to also do other stuff is pretty awesome. Radfield already mentioned the Chances of a Mafia visit on V7 are like 99%. Do you really think mafia let's a claimed blue role that has already proven that he's not bullshitting alive? Drazerk's claim may as well be bollocks. If you think I troll mafia games, you should read Drazerk's history of playing. It doesn't even tell us anything about his alignment if he's lying. However, after what has happened I'm more willing to believe he's not scum, although trying to tell his alignment is kinda.... meh.
To be honest I thought he's either a VET or a VT trying to catch some bullets if he's town. At least that's what I thought from the very beginning. Someone already pointed it out: If a single person is able to see something, mafia is probably able to see it as well so while I did not say a thing yesterday to see if it works I don't have a problem with telling you what I think about him now.
If he's not town he's strange :p
So sum it up: I'm not believing a word Drazerk said.
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Yes, and because of how this day seems to be playing out, his alignment and his role is irrelevant for now. The focus of the discussion should be me and annul.
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So far I think Palmar's case is just bad. As someone said, VisceraEyes is too focused on Palmar when there isn't what to focus on. After the bullshit that was the beginning of day1, Palmar has only been more and more townie. In fact, one could argue that was actually a playstyle to make him a lesser target for night 1(although I don't think he'd be a target at all)
Moreover, I don't like the idea of lynching annul. I'd rather want to pull your eyes to another case... a new one.
redFF
Right off the bat, it's clear that he won't follow any advices regarding his playstyle. When town was told to worry about establishing innocence, redFF goes straight into an aggressive instance voting on Palmar before all the bullshit.
Every single post of his is a bad post. filter. One-line, simple, double-posting(to generate volume on the filter), mostly zero content. Reminds me of someone on another game.
His "tunneling" of Corrupt ceased very soon, he didn't push him any more than after the huge post Corrupt made, despite "still being suspicious of him". It just goes with my idea that Corrupt is also scum.
+ Show Spoiler [Possibly forced, ignore if you want] +This specific quote strikes me: if corrupt is scum zepirdd could be his buddy http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291212¤tpage=13#247Which is funny, because I know I'm not scum and I think Corrupt is scum; how is it that Corrupt being scum makes me his buddy fails to me; unless he is the scum busing Corrupt. Of course, this would only matter if Corrupt in in fact scum, and although I do believe in that, I don't think it's worth to make a case just now
He goes on of how much we need a lynch of some sort, and then goes with this
anyone not on a large wagon is anti town
Exactly how much is that true? I don't disagree that it was good to lynch Hier, but how is not being on a wagon anti-town and not anti-scum? What bugs me the most is how much thought he puts into his posts: none. He doesn't expand on that thought and doesn't explain why a no-lynch would be bad in his opinion, not even to echo somebody's else opinion.
Later, he goes back to Palmar, not because he "thinks he is scummy", but because "he is fucking around and is detrimental to town. plus we need a lynch."; Inconsistency to fit what looked like the easiest wagon at the time.
And of course he switches to Hier in order to achieve that lynch, that was soooo useful for town.
Corrupt then tries a mildly bad case on him during the night, that is just answered with an all-caps post. Nobody picks it, and they move on - Corrupt doesn't continue with it, everything is gone and people just ignore both.
Day 2 had his best posts all game long: appealing to new players the same way he says Palmar did. He even tells how Palmar has done no scumhunting and is trying to fuck up any pro-town atmosphere "we" try to create, when in fact his own posts aren't creating any town atmosphere and even warranted a couple of mod warnings.
redFF is scum
If you don't think so, at least take your time to take a close look at his actions, and ask yourself whether those actions are good for town or not.
My vote goes to him, obviously.
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Can we lease stop wifoming the night kills? It accomplishes nothing.
The bottom line is that, gasp, every single night the scum will attempt to hit, you guessed it, town. Seeing as they know who the scum are its really not hard for them to choose a correct target. Any other speculation on thier choices is wifon to the largest degree.
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I'm going to repeat what I said and highlight the important part because people have been telling me I'm to much of a wall-of-text guy so probably sometimes the important stuff is not noticed:
On December 07 2011 23:15 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok next thing came to my mind: How likely is it that there's two different medic roles in this game?
Drazerk claimed he's a RB-immun-Medic that has to claim n1 as far as I recall. At least that's the reason he claimed I think.
He said he protected V7 and yet we have, according to annul a successful save that's not V7. So that means we got a 2nd medic in this game if both claims are correct. The 2nd medic however does not seem to have to claim like Drazerk did.
On top of that I still think mafia would like to get something like V7's role out of this game. A dayvig that's able to also do other stuff is pretty awesome. Radfield already mentioned the Chances of a Mafia visit on V7 are like 99%. Do you really think mafia let's a claimed blue role that has already proven that he's not bullshitting alive?
I don't think so in general. Now let's think of some possible solutions to that problem:
#1 V7 is Mafia - I don't think so. If you seriously want me to give more details on this, look up my filter and search for V7 or V7's (real) name and what I said about him
#2 Drazerk is Mafia - If Drazerk is mafia they can't "just" kill V7 because everyone would see that Drazerks claim was a lie because V7's dead would prove there was no protection on him although we told Drazerk to do so. Therefore they need V7 alive or Drazerk is dead as well.
Actually I can't think of something else that's makeing sense atm.
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On December 07 2011 23:40 Zephirdd wrote:Right off the bat, it's clear that he won't follow any advices regarding his playstyle. When town was told to worry about establishing innocence, redFF goes straight into an aggressive instance voting on Palmar before all the bullshit. Every single post of his is a bad post. filter. One-line, simple, double-posting(to generate volume on the filter), mostly zero content. Reminds me of someone on another game.
Not a scumtell. Being aggressive and independent is if anything more likely to be something townies do. While his case on me was terribly forced because there was no content to analyse, it doesn't automatically make him scum. Not to mention, the game you're pointing to, Serejai was town.
His "tunneling" of Corrupt ceased very soon, he didn't push him any more than after the huge post Corrupt made, despite "still being suspicious of him". It just goes with my idea that Corrupt is also scum.
You can't determine anything about anyone from the actions of others, if you allow yourself that, then you're opening up a new arsenal of weapons for scum. Analyze each one of them individually, but not together.
He goes on of how much we need a lynch of some sort, and then goes with this Exactly how much is that true? I don't disagree that it was good to lynch Hier, but how is not being on a wagon anti-town and not anti-scum? What bugs me the most is how much thought he puts into his posts: none. He doesn't expand on that thought and doesn't explain why a no-lynch would be bad in his opinion, not even to echo somebody's else opinion.
Putting no thought into your posts concludes the person is trolling, dumb, or an asshole. None of these can be directly associated with that person being scum.
Later, he goes back to Palmar, not because he "thinks he is scummy", but because "he is fucking around and is detrimental to town. plus we need a lynch."; Inconsistency to fit what looked like the easiest wagon at the time.
And of course he switches to Hier in order to achieve that lynch, that was soooo useful for town.
Some people hold the belief that a lynch must always be achieved very highly. Many of those people do it as town too.
Corrupt then tries a mildly bad case on him during the night, that is just answered with an all-caps post. Nobody picks it, and they move on - Corrupt doesn't continue with it, everything is gone and people just ignore both.
Stop creating links you cannot know exist.
Day 2 had his best posts all game long: appealing to new players the same way he says Palmar did. He even tells how Palmar has done no scumhunting and is trying to fuck up any pro-town atmosphere "we" try to create, when in fact his own posts aren't creating any town atmosphere and even warranted a couple of mod warnings.
Grats, you've successfully proven redFF is a moron. That doesn't make him scum.
redFF is scum
If you don't think so, at least take your time to take a close look at his actions, and ask yourself whether those actions are good for town or not.
My vote goes to him, obviously.
Now go put your vote on annul.
I'm not ruling out the possibility of redFF being scum, there just isn't any concrete evidence for it at the moment, so I think you'd do much more good voting for annul.
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EPT
