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@Prob @Wiggles and @WBG (and everyone else really)
You can say my filter is weak, but I don't think anything about it screams scummy. I was simply unable to participate in the game until recently. You could go so far to say that I looked a little Blue, but if scum were to have shot me I believe they would have been just shooting at a relatively experienced player that was basically guaranteed to not be protected. If you think my filter looks that much worse than WBG and you believe his claim I would like to know why? I understand he subbed into the game having much less time to post, but that still does not make a difference when push comes to shove about the overall content of both of our filters.
Also, you can say that lying to town is bad. I agree most of the time, but I haven't heard an answer to "how this lie can hurt town or push an anti-town agenda?".
Another point is why would I, as scum, claim, knowing that MZ and WBG were shot and still alive and likely to (I see no reason they wouldn't) claim. I would have been the obvious choice for lynch for lying according to you all, and even if I wasn't I would have been sacrificing myself to an actual vig shot / next day lynch that I don't think has any benefit as scum.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Not much substance to this post, but here are my thoughts for alternative candidates.
Hassybaby has not shared his opinion on a single player this game. I'd like to request a large post from him within the next 24 hours or he should be strongly considered as a vig target tommorrow night. Zealos has disappeared. As a lynch candidate, he needs to be extremely active today if he hopes to stay out of trouble. marvellosity's filter is far too safe for my liking.
GambitX32's two posts look as if he knew he would be expected to share his opinion, but had nothing to say, so he just made a few generic statements about a bunch of players. I don't see anything of value that his post adds to the thread.
I'm unwilling to trust Wiggles, but I'm unable to put together anything close to a valid case against him. With myself and Meapak being town, it doesn't bode well for him for him from a balance perspective, although VE could also serve as the scum leader.
S&B and Manason are still sketchy. I want a more developed case from each of them that adds something to the thread.
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On May 30 2012 14:30 Mattchew wrote:But my trap worked to perfection. I fail to see how I was scummier than WBG or MZ before the night post, so why are their claims taken at face value and mine not. I told the thread early on I would not be active, I have now been posting for almost 24 hours straight (no sleep or breaks) to get back involved in this game. Up until snb, ET was the only one to post suspicions about my shot claim + Show Spoiler [ET post about my shot] +On May 30 2012 08:32 EchelonTee wrote:
Mattchew the last KP, unless someone claims a medic protect. I'm curious why he got shot.
, however with both of them not knowing of WBG's claim there is a huge difference in the posts about my claimed hit. ET expressed curiosity as to why I was shot (because IMO he is honestly confused about scum shooting me) while SnB immediately looks for the vig that shot me. I think he was posting to find a vig to claim the shot because he knew it wasn't mafia's doing.
Ok Matt, I understand. The fact that you claimed your shot first and that he dismissed you as a possible scum shot is pretty bad. I thought you had claimed after the others but by my reading you were first. So in essence the question boils down to
"Why would someone believe that scum used all their kill point on Forumite and so Matt was shot by a vig; over Matt being shot by scum?"
Is that right?
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On May 30 2012 14:43 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Today we should be lynching kitaman, I'll write a nice little something up in a bit as to why.
Or you could save your time and focus your efforts elsewhere.
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On May 30 2012 14:52 Mattchew wrote:
@Prob @Wiggles and @WBG (and everyone else really)
You can say my filter is weak, but I don't think anything about it screams scummy. I was simply unable to participate in the game until recently. You could go so far to say that I looked a little Blue, but if scum were to have shot me I believe they would have been just shooting at a relatively experienced player that was basically guaranteed to not be protected. If you think my filter looks that much worse than WBG and you believe his claim I would like to know why? I understand he subbed into the game having much less time to post, but that still does not make a difference when push comes to shove about the overall content of both of our filters.
Also, you can say that lying to town is bad. I agree most of the time, but I haven't heard an answer to "how this lie can hurt town or push an anti-town agenda?".
Another point is why would I, as scum, claim, knowing that MZ and WBG were shot and still alive and likely to (I see no reason they wouldn't) claim. I would have been the obvious choice for lynch for lying according to you all, and even if I wasn't I would have been sacrificing myself to an actual vig shot / next day lynch that I don't think has any benefit as scum.
Don't misrepresent my words I never said anything about you being scum. I said that SnB might have responded like he did even if he is town. In otherwords your trap was stupid.
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On May 30 2012 14:55 kitaman27 wrote:
S&B and Manason are still sketchy. I want a more developed case from each of them that adds something to the thread.
What does this mean? Are they scum or dumb town?
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On May 30 2012 14:55 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:30 Mattchew wrote:But my trap worked to perfection. I fail to see how I was scummier than WBG or MZ before the night post, so why are their claims taken at face value and mine not. I told the thread early on I would not be active, I have now been posting for almost 24 hours straight (no sleep or breaks) to get back involved in this game. Up until snb, ET was the only one to post suspicions about my shot claim + Show Spoiler [ET post about my shot] +On May 30 2012 08:32 EchelonTee wrote:
Mattchew the last KP, unless someone claims a medic protect. I'm curious why he got shot.
, however with both of them not knowing of WBG's claim there is a huge difference in the posts about my claimed hit. ET expressed curiosity as to why I was shot (because IMO he is honestly confused about scum shooting me) while SnB immediately looks for the vig that shot me. I think he was posting to find a vig to claim the shot because he knew it wasn't mafia's doing. Ok Matt, I understand. The fact that you claimed your shot first and that he dismissed you as a possible scum shot is pretty bad. I thought you had claimed after the others but by my reading you were first. So in essence the question boils down to "Why would someone believe that scum used all their kill point on Forumite and so Matt was shot by a vig; over Matt being shot by scum?" Is that right?
nope cause i think MZ claimed a hit sometime in there. Its why did he assume the doublestack of forum (or assume another unclaimed hit) and put me in the vig target only list... Maybe this is just me but if I were an observer of the situation I wouldn't care about who was hit by what until the claimed hits were greater than the mafia KP. This wasn't the case
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On May 30 2012 14:35 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:26 sToFu wrote:
I would tend to side w/ SnB on the issue of Mattchew. His "let me lie to town and spring a trap" strategy seems inherently flawed, and I do think that SnB's reasoning was solid in that Mattchew would be more likely to be a vig hit than a mafia hit, especially given some of the accusations pressed against him D1. I was hardly spoken of day 1 and how is my lying flawed. In what way could my lie hurt town unless I were to try and do what WBG is doing pushing for a liar lynch cause of an unclaimed extra shot (something I had no intention of doing) Plus, if you believe that MZ, WBG and forumite were the 3 scum kills, why (as scum) would I post that I was hit knowing that 2 others could easily claim and get me lynched for lying unless I had other purposes with the claim (as I did cause I am town)
People were calling you out for inactivity, contrary to your typical activity level. That was all I meant.
People above have demonstrated that even though SnB "fell for your trap", he actually didn't do anything scummy at all. As a policy, I think that lying to the town is, in general, something that shouldn't be done.
You ask how the lie could hurt town, and you provided a method with which it could hurt town. Simultaneously, a not lying has none of these concerns.
I am willing to let it go, on account of flawed judgment and attempts to apply pressure, but I disagree with the method.
As for motivations as a member of the mafia: it has caused considerable confusion without adding any substantial evidence to a viable case against SnB. The fact that we're arguing about the methods instead of legitimate topics indicates the misdirection that it caused.
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On May 30 2012 14:57 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:52 Mattchew wrote:
@Prob @Wiggles and @WBG (and everyone else really)
You can say my filter is weak, but I don't think anything about it screams scummy. I was simply unable to participate in the game until recently. You could go so far to say that I looked a little Blue, but if scum were to have shot me I believe they would have been just shooting at a relatively experienced player that was basically guaranteed to not be protected. If you think my filter looks that much worse than WBG and you believe his claim I would like to know why? I understand he subbed into the game having much less time to post, but that still does not make a difference when push comes to shove about the overall content of both of our filters.
Also, you can say that lying to town is bad. I agree most of the time, but I haven't heard an answer to "how this lie can hurt town or push an anti-town agenda?".
Another point is why would I, as scum, claim, knowing that MZ and WBG were shot and still alive and likely to (I see no reason they wouldn't) claim. I would have been the obvious choice for lynch for lying according to you all, and even if I wasn't I would have been sacrificing myself to an actual vig shot / next day lynch that I don't think has any benefit as scum. Don't misrepresent my words I never said anything about you being scum. I said that SnB might have responded like he did even if he is town. In otherwords your trap was stupid.
On May 30 2012 14:22 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:14 Mattchew wrote:
Btw i am reading along with prob's posts and they are awesome I <3 Prob (ps this could be our first game as town together?!) Could be, depends if you're town or not. You're not making much sense  If I get your thinking right, it goes like this - You're town and you claim a shot and only scum know that you were "not" shot by scum.
- SnB says you were shot by a vig
- Because he discounted the possibility of you being shot by scum, he knows you weren't shot by scum, and so is scum.
The problem is that this assumes you're town. In SnB's eyes, you looked like scum so of course any shot your way would come from a vig. I don't understand the basis of your trap and WBG is right to get pissed at you for lying about it. I suggest we all grow up, drop the issue and lynch based on posting rather than one's interpretation of a failed trap.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On May 30 2012 14:59 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:55 kitaman27 wrote:
S&B and Manason are still sketchy. I want a more developed case from each of them that adds something to the thread. What does this mean? Are they scum or dumb town?
They are both players that I see as more scummy than towny.
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On May 30 2012 15:01 sToFu wrote:
You ask how the lie could hurt town, and you provided a method with which it could hurt town.
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can you please elaborate on this... how did I provide a method where it hurt town?
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On May 30 2012 14:56 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:43 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Today we should be lynching kitaman, I'll write a nice little something up in a bit as to why. Or you could save your time and focus your efforts elsewhere.
Actually I agree. If there's one thing I hate doing it's forcing a case and as I began to write that's what I realized I was doing. My initial concerns were piqued by your obsession with the lyncher and your rather laissez faire attitude towards who got elected. However after rereading your filter you came across much better than I had remembered. Aside from that my only problem was that you hadn't offered any reads then I f5'd and your recent post showed up.
So you're off the hook for now, time to find a better target.
Actually gonna take a look at VE because he didn't look too good when I was reading your filter... obviously need to read his to get the full story.
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Maju - Your suspicion of me is completely legitimate. I can't say much about my slip-up in my reads post other than that I slipped up, and that the post, at least to me, reads like one that was written up very quickly and posted without any proofreading. As for the scum/lyncher argument, I thought that scum indicated anyone who was not allied with the town. I'm more used to saying something along the lines of "mafia member" or "mafian", but I'm trying to fit into the slang of TL. Is this a bad, suspicious excuse that I'm probably going to be called out on? Yes. Is it also the truth? Yes.
As for trying to cast suspicion on others
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336250¤tpage=62#1229
Good god Matt calm down. That point of that post was that SnB might have thought you weren't town. No need to get your panties in a knot.
On May 30 2012 14:59 Mattchew wrote:nope cause i think MZ claimed a hit sometime in there. Its why did he assume the doublestack of forum (or assume another unclaimed hit) and put me in the vig target only list... Maybe this is just me but if I were an observer of the situation I wouldn't care about who was hit by what until the claimed hits were greater than the mafia KP. This wasn't the case Ok here is the order of events
- Matt claims shot
- Meapak claim hit
- SnB questions Matt's claim
So at that point there were two shots claimed plus a kill, totalling three which accounts for all scum KP. So yeah, odd he would assume vig shot when there was plenty of scum KP available.
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On May 30 2012 15:09 Probulous wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336250¤tpage=62#1229Good god Matt calm down. That point of that post was that SnB might have thought you weren't town. No need to get your panties in a knot. Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:59 Mattchew wrote:nope cause i think MZ claimed a hit sometime in there. Its why did he assume the doublestack of forum (or assume another unclaimed hit) and put me in the vig target only list... Maybe this is just me but if I were an observer of the situation I wouldn't care about who was hit by what until the claimed hits were greater than the mafia KP. This wasn't the case Ok here is the order of events - Matt claims shot
- Meapak claim hit
- SnB questions Matt's claim
So at that point there were two shots claimed plus a kill, totalling three which accounts for all scum KP. So yeah, odd he would assume vig shot when there was plenty of scum KP available.
I am calm, you said I was misrepresenting your words when I wasn't. And to have a meta scum read on me is illogical, i post equally if not more as scum, so me lurking after giving a reason for it is the most forced scum read one could have.
and I think you are catching on. I saw you had a post about snb before as well
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Dear stronandbig
RE: You're attempts to ruin my lovely town
It is regrettable that I have to bring this up but some of your posting has been somewhat lacklustre. This post in particular worries me.
On May 30 2012 13:51 strongandbig wrote:
Also Also - Toad! great to hear that you actually could Mason someone. Let me ask you a question: can you explain a little bit about what your "anti-manipulation power" is? I guess it's okay if you don't want to so you can use it later in secret or w/e but if it was a lie it'd be fine to admit it imo now that we know the rest of your claim is true, as long as you explain it. It's just that something outlandish like a "power that keeps you from being manipulated by the person you're masoning with" doesn't really make sense to me, since that would require the host to jump into your PM convos somehow, and it's the main thing still making me doubt your claim.
Please can you explain to me what information you intended to gain from this question? I fear you aim to ruin our atmosphere and I have a lovely picnic planned for the weekend.
Lots of lynching love
Probulous
PS: As a little motivation here's a vote that isn't moving until you answer
##Vote: strongandbig
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
sToFu has been playing pretty appologetic thus far.
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ok bed time. be back in like 12 hours
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On May 30 2012 15:09 sToFu wrote:
Maju - Your suspicion of me is completely legitimate. I can't say much about my slip-up in my reads post other than that I slipped up, and that the post, at least to me, reads like one that was written up very quickly and posted without any proofreading. As for the scum/lyncher argument, I thought that scum indicated anyone who was not allied with the town. I'm more used to saying something along the lines of "mafia member" or "mafian", but I'm trying to fit into the slang of TL. Is this a bad, suspicious excuse that I'm probably going to be called out on? Yes. Is it also the truth? Yes.
As for trying to cast suspicion on others
...Got cut off.
In essence, if I were a member of the mafia, I would want to cast suspicion on someone not already widely suspected a lyncher. Either way, there are much more effective ways of casting suspicion than the quickly noted suspicions of a newbie.
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On May 30 2012 15:21 kitaman27 wrote:
sToFu has been playing pretty appologetic thus far.
this is also his first game and he's fairly young.
I'd cut him some slack for now.
Also the VE related post will take a while to construct simply because it'll be fairly lengthy and I think he's outed at least one other scum. Expect it tomorrow some time.
Yes you may consider the above statement me calling VE scum.
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EPT
