EPTThis should be good. Rereading now.
TL Mafia LV - Page 63
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
This should be good. Rereading now. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
##Vote: Kitaman27 Would you believe me if I told you I wanted to see you vote him first to see if you were serious last night when we had our little archon moment? Because....that's what's going on here. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On May 28 2012 04:08 kitaman27 wrote: Hmm, mason would be a great claim for a lyncher. Doesn't matter if he's telling the truth on day two since he's already won by then. As much as I'd like to see a town role elected, we can't automatically assume toad is town. What's funny about the whole thing is that his alignment was not a factor to me. Obviously I want town to occupy the role, but my entire contention with Toad in the role was the fact that a mason who's not aware of his partner's alignment is automatically more prone to manipulation. Simply because only Toad reads it, if he's in contact with scum then they're 100% guaranteed to manipulate his use of whatever power he gains by being elected. The reason I hadn't voted for kitaman is because I wanted to see if MZ voted for him today. He expressed suspicion of him yesterday and I wanted to see if he meant it come dawn. Apparently he didn't, so I'm pushing this one alone. I'm going to make a full case, but I wanted to briefly address the points against me. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On May 28 2012 15:23 kitaman27 wrote: -_- lol I random voted Hyaach with the hope that he would post. I still feel its optimal to elect someone who didn't declare their candidacy in the first 24 hours, but Hyaach doesn't have nearly enough posts to warrent being elected. I'll have to decide tomorrow between the candidates. You mentioned earlier that I'm not interested in being elected, which is untrue. I would be perfectly content with being mayor. Odd or scummy? I'm not sure what is so strange to you. Toad role claims mason, which means he is either a lyncher or a mason. Therefore, we elect him as pardoner where he can do no harm and benefit town by denying the role that shortens the game by one cycle. Seems like a completely reasonable conclusion to me. Do you disagree that Toad should be elected? Humor us? Too tired to re-read the thread tonight. Tomorrow I'll have to give my thoughts about the lynch. First, his response to my first question was inadequate...for all we know, once the Lyncher achieves the Lyncher's objectives, the Lyncher leaves the game. I know it's not expressly written as such in the OP, but it makes sense that if a lynch can happen D1 then the Lyncher can win D1 and no one wants to play a game that can end before N1. It makes sense to assume that even given perfect Lyncher conditions, the game can still be played. But the point that I was trying to make (and the point that Kitaman fails STILL to explain) is why he's SO FOCUSED ON THE LYNCHER. He doesn't respond in this post except for ._. or whatever. Look at the red bolded statement. In context, it appears that he's trying to make it seem as if I'm trying to skirt around calling him scummy...yet this entire post he's responding to is about him and it's clear that I find him suspicious. That's the key here - it's not "skirting around calling someone scum" when it's clear that you're suspicious of them. My use of the word odd WAS meant to imply scummy, but the fact that he questions me about that makes it seem as though I intentionally avoided calling him scummy when in fact it wasn't necessary for me to do so. Subtle, yet effective. Now look at the blue italicized statement. Again, he asks a needless question for a specific purpose. I've gone on and on at this point that I absolutely do NOT want Toad elected to any position...but Kitaman specifically asks me this question "Do you disagree that Toad should be elected?" to A) make it appear that town consensus is that Toad should be elected (it was not) and B) make me out to be scummy for disagreeing. I know this, because if he were town and suspicious of me he would have read my posts and realized that I didn't want Toad elected, and would not have asked me this question. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
There's no case to be made. My read is based on gut based on his responses and his fixation with the Lyncher. ##Unvote Keep talkin though Kita, preferably about someone other than me. Not that I mind the attention, but I'm town and I want to lynch scum today. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
##Vote: Gambit Because 2 posts isn't enough. Skirting activity requirements is a crime against town. Much of what Zealos and supersoft have said I disagree with, but there's no denying that simply not posting is anti-town. Also I mourn for the Archon...he had only just begun to live. ![[image loading]](http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1656708684/sad_zealot.png) | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 30 2012 14:37 Mattchew wrote: God hindsight is 20/20 in this thread... Obviously now that people know I wasn't actually hit its super easy to say "omg you weren't a scum target thats so obvi duhhh" but before all the other hit claims no one said this except ET and SnB. And ET did not discount that scum shot me, he just expressed interest in it man are you dumb? That was 90% of the reason I was calling you scum. Both SnB and I thought the hit claim you were claiming had to either be a lie or a vig hit. Obviously there was no way scum would shoot you. Lying about it makes no sense as town, because you get situations like these. Now let's move on. We lynch gambit man, since he still hasn't appeared and his first two posts are still the same shit they were the last time I read them. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On May 30 2012 09:51 Mattchew wrote: It could be true... It also could be shooting a solid vet before he has the chance to make reads... I think gambit needs to die that was the first thing that popped into my mind when i read wbgs logic. as scum i'd shoot wbg instantly... i am going to look at the facts later. got university right now | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad. We kill gambit man today. He ninja voted ET yesterday and he's said nothing. Eat shit and die, scum. ##vote Gambitx32 that guy is town. Don't want to lynch town sorry | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
Firstly, VE: </3 On strongandbig: I'm not seeing it. His filter reads to me as open, willing and earnest. He tried very hard to back down from an argument with BH in order to not shit up the thread (not helped by BH). I have almost no confidence that Matt's narrative that snb 'fell into his trap' is correct. On kita's case on VE: don't really see this either. VE is distinctly less argumentative than normal and this is promoting a good town atmosphere. Probulous agreed that the 2nd half of kita's case was more damning/suspicious, with VE having unfounded confidence in his reads at the time. Like, do you people read VE's games? This is a common occurrence, both as scum and town. Totally alignment unindicative. I'm picking out this post from among the detritus because it was shouted down/ignored by the vets posting at the time: + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2012 10:27 austinmcc wrote: The nonexistent kind? I'm not defending him. I bring up the vote because: You brought up the no-vote in your initial 2 posts when you mentioned him. To the extent that the no-vote factored into your read, the read was off, but you may have been more focused on the crappy posting, in which case the no-vote is entirely irrelevant. Again, I'm not trying to defend Gambit here, I'm trying to see your reasoning. Why him over
Plenty of valid questions/points. Particularly it points out this: On May 28 2012 08:19 phagga wrote: Not through the complete thread yet, will catch up later. I'm against a policy lynch, as I think everyone should get the chance to improve. I don't like how Toadesstern claimed, and feel against voting him therefore. He is either throwing away his blue role or fakeclaiming to get the major. Both is bad. I like Mr. Wiggles reasoning, he looks like a good candidate. The other interesting option is ET, but I will have to read through his filter again to feel more sure. Mr. Wiggles and ET, do you already have some candidates for your lynch? Especially to the bold: he will catch up on the thread later. This was 2.5 days ago. People are merrily lynching Gambit because of 2 bad posts and ignoring phagga who makes a similar non-post but with only ONE post AND a promise to catch up later that went unfulfilled. Overall I think phagga and Gambit make quite good lynches for today. But I am most confident in a Zealos lynch still. Everything he posts says scum to me, and I am confident in my ability to read him. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
That being said I'd still love to lynch kita. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On May 30 2012 18:35 wherebugsgo wrote: man are you dumb? That was 90% of the reason I was calling you scum. Both SnB and I thought the hit claim you were claiming had to either be a lie or a vig hit. Obviously there was no way scum would shoot you. Lying about it makes no sense as town, because you get situations like these. Now let's move on. We lynch gambit man, since he still hasn't appeared and his first two posts are still the same shit they were the last time I read them. Man are you dumb? You knew that you were the 3rd hit thus making me the 4th claimed hit from 3 scum kp... Snb DID NOT have this same info (from the thread atleast) and yet came to the same conclusion If lying makes no sense as town are you calling me scum? | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On May 30 2012 21:41 Toadesstern wrote: Hey Gambit could you do me a favor and tell me the name of the character you are? Just the name, no need for role or something like that. don't act so mysterous... | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I'm not acting mysterous. I think the guy is town for one huge town-tell he did. I just want to know his name on top of that. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
MZ took a hit wherebugsgo took a hit both of them were saved. Forumite took a hit aswell. Vigs who shot one of them must claim now. On May 30 2012 09:11 Mattchew wrote: Hey guys... I wasn't shot... But strongandbig fell into my trap cause he knew this (Aka his team didn't shoot me)... If the trap failed it would have made scum believe there was a vig shot already used or an sk or something (Aka giving them fake game info) so it seemed like a win-win this is so strange. Might be scum panicking after he saw that no townplayer died. _________ i need to figure some things out. "Regarding Sines: I understand that from what you and BH have said, you have a lot of emotion and reason for frustration. But as BH has admitted, grush appears to be trying to be more useful. It is highly dangerous to suggest that lynching someone for past instance and who at this point hasn't proven scummy is better than letting them live --- this kind of lynch you are pushing would hurt us; we should lynch scummy behavior not past bad behavior. Until a player starts aggressively spamming scummy distraction/nonsense, do not suggest they are more harmful alive than dead. Ironically, I believe so far Sines has been more harmful than grush." yeah that carefully accusing/lynchpushing is scummy... However he's a lynch not providing much information about other players. I want to have a second look into wiggles and zealos. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
Here's the reason I wanted toad to say something about this claimed anti manipulation power. When you're dealing with a nonstandard power, and when you're dealing with greymist, role does not always equal alignment. Since I have trouble imagining how this power would work, I have trouble believing it. It still feels to me like toad was lying to get elected mayor. That said, I understand that revealing how it works could make it less useful if toad at some point masons a scum or someone he thinks is scummy. So what about this: toad, when you get a mason buddy who you're like 100% sure is town, could you explain this thing to them and they could tell the thread whether they believe you? Also, toad, why did you claim when you did? If the answer is just "to become mayor," then why did you want to be mayor so badly? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On May 30 2012 23:02 strongandbig wrote: @probulous: Here's the reason I wanted toad to say something about this claimed anti manipulation power. When you're dealing with a nonstandard power, and when you're dealing with greymist, role does not always equal alignment. Since I have trouble imagining how this power would work, I have trouble believing it. It still feels to me like toad was lying to get elected mayor. That said, I understand that revealing how it works could make it less useful if toad at some point masons a scum or someone he thinks is scummy. So what about this: toad, when you get a mason buddy who you're like 100% sure is town, could you explain this thing to them and they could tell the thread whether they believe you? Also, toad, why did you claim when you did? If the answer is just "to become mayor," then why did you want to be mayor so badly? I already explained it to MZ and I told him to not tell you. Don't know if he has read it yet. And yeah it was only to be mayor because I was really certain that I can lynch into mafia d1 ezpz, but you didn't trust me. Shame on you. Now we've got wiggles who lynched into that sin-guy. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On May 30 2012 23:02 strongandbig wrote: @probulous: Here's the reason I wanted toad to say something about this claimed anti manipulation power. When you're dealing with a nonstandard power, and when you're dealing with greymist, role does not always equal alignment. Since I have trouble imagining how this power would work, I have trouble believing it. It still feels to me like toad was lying to get elected mayor. That said, I understand that revealing how it works could make it less useful if toad at some point masons a scum or someone he thinks is scummy. So what about this: toad, when you get a mason buddy who you're like 100% sure is town, could you explain this thing to them and they could tell the thread whether they believe you? Also, toad, why did you claim when you did? If the answer is just "to become mayor," then why did you want to be mayor so badly? a. the roles are in the OP and are all alignment assigned b. how is toad lying if MZ confirmed him? are they both scum? c. I would bet that he claimed to become mayor because he is town. I don't see why he needs further explanation, it is a role of power that decides day 1's lynch | ||
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