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On February 21 2012 08:57 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Encouraging is fine. Physically helping someone commit the crime is another matter.
You heard it here first.
TPB is physically helping people commit crimes.
The sheer amount of ignorance of the internet and how it works is astonishing in this thread, and really any thread about piracy or the internet. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't make an opinion on it. That doesn't mean "you can't disagree with me", if you agree with this -- I don't really mind. It's the people who clearly don't have a grasp on the internet, how it works, and technology as a whole and are making it abundantly clear.
Educate yourselves on the matter, and then make an opinion. Please.
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United States5162 Posts
On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:52 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:47 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Yes, because the very act of making a website that says you are opposed to a horrendous political law makes you a criminal. Duh. It pains me that blatant DNS censorship is going on and people are justifying it. No, not at all. There is a difference between speaking up for crime and facilitating it actually being done. Crime is relative country to country. The internet is a very grey area. This blocking has nothing to do with "the law", it has to do with corporations wanting to cling to the old ways before the internet and spilling hundreds of millions into the judiciary system to stop any attempt at breaking that cycle. Just look at SOPA, tens of millions of dollars were injected into it to get it pushed as far as possible before anyone noticed and the same shit goes on in other countries. Don't fool yourself and think it's because of "the law" or for any form of moral value. It's a man in a penthouse's greed. Plain and simple.
That's true. Old men are trying to protect their investments from a medium they don't understand. That doesn't actually change anything though. The fact that they should adapt with the times and adopt a itunes/steam model to actually provide a good service doesn't justify you in taking it anyways.
I oppose SOPA and all that jazz, but I do support people being able to control content they create. I think patent/copyright laws need to reverted back to what they were before the 70s/80s, but in general I think they're a good thing.
And quit making a sematics argument out of everything. It makes it really difficult to actually have a conversation.
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On February 21 2012 08:59 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:52 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:47 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Yes, because the very act of making a website that says you are opposed to a horrendous political law makes you a criminal. Duh. It pains me that blatant DNS censorship is going on and people are justifying it. No, not at all. There is a difference between speaking up for crime and facilitating it actually being done. Crime is relative country to country. The internet is a very grey area. This blocking has nothing to do with "the law", it has to do with corporations wanting to cling to the old ways before the internet and spilling hundreds of millions into the judiciary system to stop any attempt at breaking that cycle. Just look at SOPA, tens of millions of dollars were injected into it to get it pushed as far as possible before anyone noticed and the same shit goes on in other countries. Don't fool yourself and think it's because of "the law" or for any form of moral value. It's a man in a penthouse's greed. Plain and simple. That's true. Old men are trying to protect their investments from a medium they don't understand. That doesn't actually change anything though. The fact that they should adapt with the times and adopt a itunes/steam model to actually provide a good service doesn't justify you in taking it anyways. I oppose SOPA and all that jazz, but I do support people being able to control content they create. I think patent/copyright laws need to reverted back to what they were before the 70s/80s, but in general I think they're a good thing.
Yeah copyright laws are great -- but in their current state, it promotes nothing but greed and abuse.
Sometimes people are trying to solve the symptoms, not the underlying issue. Blocking the DNS for TPB is treating a symptom of the issue. Want to know what the fucking disease is that will stop it all together? Horrendously shit copyright laws and corporations being able to buy out legislation that supports them and people eating up horrendous and antiquated service from companies instead of saying "Hey, stop that."
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On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:52 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:47 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Yes, because the very act of making a website that says you are opposed to a horrendous political law makes you a criminal. Duh. It pains me that blatant DNS censorship is going on and people are justifying it. No, not at all. There is a difference between speaking up for crime and facilitating it actually being done. Crime is relative country to country. The internet is a very grey area. This blocking has nothing to do with "the law", it has to do with corporations wanting to cling to the old ways before the internet and spilling hundreds of millions into the judiciary system to stop any attempt at breaking that cycle. Just look at SOPA, tens of millions of dollars were injected into it to get it pushed as far as possible before anyone noticed and the same shit goes on in other countries. Don't fool yourself and think it's because of "the law" or for any form of moral value. It's a man in a penthouse's greed. Plain and simple. I'm generally actually pretty conservative as a person, however, the internet should not be regulated by any government at all for any reason. It's too far, too widespread, and too different to be restricted by government regulation.
If you make copyright law 100% invalid on the internet, then how do you propose that artists, and those that support them, get paid for their work?
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On February 21 2012 09:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:52 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:47 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Yes, because the very act of making a website that says you are opposed to a horrendous political law makes you a criminal. Duh. It pains me that blatant DNS censorship is going on and people are justifying it. No, not at all. There is a difference between speaking up for crime and facilitating it actually being done. Crime is relative country to country. The internet is a very grey area. This blocking has nothing to do with "the law", it has to do with corporations wanting to cling to the old ways before the internet and spilling hundreds of millions into the judiciary system to stop any attempt at breaking that cycle. Just look at SOPA, tens of millions of dollars were injected into it to get it pushed as far as possible before anyone noticed and the same shit goes on in other countries. Don't fool yourself and think it's because of "the law" or for any form of moral value. It's a man in a penthouse's greed. Plain and simple. I'm generally actually pretty conservative as a person, however, the internet should not be regulated by any government at all for any reason. It's too far, too widespread, and too different to be restricted by government regulation. If you make copyright law 100% invalid on the internet, then how do you propose that artists, and those that support them, get paid for their work?
Way to misconstrue what I'm saying.
Copyright laws are necessary, however, what they do now only hurts and need to be revised. Copyright laws are not the same as legislating the internet. Nonetheless, they'd probably be paid the same damn way they are now. People paying music licenses to them, people paying for the music, or taking advertisements that directly pay the creators of the music. Much like how Spotify, Pandora, iTunes, and Grooveshark work.
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[B]On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:
I'm generally actually pretty conservative as a person, however, the internet should not be regulated by any government at all for any reason. It's too far, too widespread, and too different to be restricted by government regulation.
So you're fine with child pornography then? What about the selling of untested dodgy medicines?
Saying that you cant regulate the internet is a pretty silly thing to say, you just don't want this particular function of the internet regulated as you (and I) benefit from it.
How is it 'too widespread and too difficult'? This does not make sense to me as they clearly are going to regulate just the same.
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United States5162 Posts
On February 21 2012 09:01 Candadar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:59 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:52 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:47 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Yes, because the very act of making a website that says you are opposed to a horrendous political law makes you a criminal. Duh. It pains me that blatant DNS censorship is going on and people are justifying it. No, not at all. There is a difference between speaking up for crime and facilitating it actually being done. Crime is relative country to country. The internet is a very grey area. This blocking has nothing to do with "the law", it has to do with corporations wanting to cling to the old ways before the internet and spilling hundreds of millions into the judiciary system to stop any attempt at breaking that cycle. Just look at SOPA, tens of millions of dollars were injected into it to get it pushed as far as possible before anyone noticed and the same shit goes on in other countries. Don't fool yourself and think it's because of "the law" or for any form of moral value. It's a man in a penthouse's greed. Plain and simple. That's true. Old men are trying to protect their investments from a medium they don't understand. That doesn't actually change anything though. The fact that they should adapt with the times and adopt a itunes/steam model to actually provide a good service doesn't justify you in taking it anyways. I oppose SOPA and all that jazz, but I do support people being able to control content they create. I think patent/copyright laws need to reverted back to what they were before the 70s/80s, but in general I think they're a good thing. Yeah copyright laws are great -- but in their current state, it promotes nothing but greed and abuse. Sometimes people are trying to solve the symptoms, not the underlying issue. Blocking the DNS for TPB is treating a symptom of the issue. Want to know what the fucking disease is that will stop it all together? Horrendously shit copyright laws and corporations being able to buy out legislation that supports them and people eating up horrendous and antiquated service from companies instead of saying "Hey, stop that."
PirateBay doesn't help that, it only makes it worse. When PirateBay is gone and companies can't blame piracy any more maybe they'll actually change. Or piracy stays and they continue to fight it tooth and nail until they begrudgingly realize Steam is kicking ass while the more intrusive DRM gets left behind. I think the first scenario is better for everyone.
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On February 21 2012 09:05 froggynoddy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:
I'm generally actually pretty conservative as a person, however, the internet should not be regulated by any government at all for any reason. It's too far, too widespread, and too different to be restricted by government regulation. So you're fine with child pornography then?
what the fuck
"You're either with us or you love child pornography"
Is that what we're devolving to now?
I can't take this level of ignorance. Jesus Christ.
[b]User was temp banned for this post.
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On February 21 2012 09:04 Candadar wrote:
Copyright laws are necessary, however, what they do now only hurts and need to be revised. Copyright laws are not the same as legislating the internet. Nonetheless, they'd probably be paid the same damn way they are now. People paying music licenses to them, people paying for the music, or taking advertisements that directly pay the creators of the music. Much like how Spotify, Pandora, iTunes, and Grooveshark work.
Explain yourself, what would you revise?
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On February 21 2012 09:06 Candadar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 09:05 froggynoddy wrote:[B]On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:
I'm generally actually pretty conservative as a person, however, the internet should not be regulated by any government at all for any reason. It's too far, too widespread, and too different to be restricted by government regulation. So you're fine with child pornography then? what the fuck "You're either with us or you love child pornography" Is that what we're devolving to now? I can't take this level of ignorance. Jesus Christ.
No just showing you that you are obviously fine with regulating the internet. So something else must be bothering you.
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On February 21 2012 08:59 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:52 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:47 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Yes, because the very act of making a website that says you are opposed to a horrendous political law makes you a criminal. Duh. It pains me that blatant DNS censorship is going on and people are justifying it. No, not at all. There is a difference between speaking up for crime and facilitating it actually being done. Crime is relative country to country. The internet is a very grey area. This blocking has nothing to do with "the law", it has to do with corporations wanting to cling to the old ways before the internet and spilling hundreds of millions into the judiciary system to stop any attempt at breaking that cycle. Just look at SOPA, tens of millions of dollars were injected into it to get it pushed as far as possible before anyone noticed and the same shit goes on in other countries. Don't fool yourself and think it's because of "the law" or for any form of moral value. It's a man in a penthouse's greed. Plain and simple. That's true. Old men are trying to protect their investments from a medium they don't understand. That doesn't actually change anything though. The fact that they should adapt with the times and adopt a itunes/steam model to actually provide a good service doesn't justify you in taking it anyways.I oppose SOPA and all that jazz, but I do support people being able to control content they create. I think patent/copyright laws need to reverted back to what they were before the 70s/80s, but in general I think they're a good thing.
I agree that it doesn't, but you need to look at the issue.
Ok so take TPB vs Megaupload.
MU was partially based out of the US and was in violation of US law. They get arrested and the site shut down. Personally it's still a bit grey to me as MU was a little more legit, but there's damming evidence so I'll side with MU being illegal for this discussion and say the take down was justified. So you have a site that was violating a US law and was taken down because of that violation. Makes perfect sense.
TPB is completely based out of Sweden and is not violating any Swedish laws (anymore). So this is not an issue of a website being taken off line for an illegal activity, but rather a country saying it values its copyright laws more than the ability to maintain an open Internet. We condemn other countries for blocking websites (China, NK as mentioned) because we consider those websites legal because they are legal in our own country. If someone is from Sweden they can say the exact same thing as we say about China and NK.
The two situations are NOT the same.
So it's not about TPB = illegal = take it down and we're done. It's about what it means to block web content because it conflicts with your nation's views/laws.
In my opinion countries should not filter/block websites and instead each country should maintain what it allows to be hosted in its own country and enforce those restrictions with their own laws.
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On February 21 2012 08:58 Candadar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:57 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Encouraging is fine. Physically helping someone commit the crime is another matter. You heard it here first. TPB is physically helping people commit crimes. The sheer amount of ignorance of the internet and how it works is astonishing in this thread, and really any thread about piracy or the internet. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't make an opinion on it. That doesn't mean "you can't disagree with me", if you agree with this -- I don't really mind. It's the people who clearly don't have a grasp on the internet, how it works, and technology as a whole and are making it abundantly clear. Educate yourselves on the matter, and then make an opinion. Please.
Computers are physical objects too. Software that runs on them makes physical things happen.
I mean really, the 'I know more about the internetz' argument is pretty lame.
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On February 21 2012 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:58 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:57 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Encouraging is fine. Physically helping someone commit the crime is another matter. You heard it here first. TPB is physically helping people commit crimes. The sheer amount of ignorance of the internet and how it works is astonishing in this thread, and really any thread about piracy or the internet. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't make an opinion on it. That doesn't mean "you can't disagree with me", if you agree with this -- I don't really mind. It's the people who clearly don't have a grasp on the internet, how it works, and technology as a whole and are making it abundantly clear. Educate yourselves on the matter, and then make an opinion. Please. Computers are physical objects too. Software that runs on them makes physical things happen. I mean really, the 'I know more about the internetz' argument is pretty lame.
It's not about me "knowing more about the internetz"
It's about people in this thread knowing absolutely nothing and then making opinions.
Like that. You just said software was a physical object because computers are physical objects.
I'll back off from the discussion so I don't blow a gasket, but holy fuck, please for the love of God -- you're making opinions without any knowledge of how anything works. It's not me being pretentious, it's me being honest. There's so much ignorance here (granted, on both sides) that it's detestable.
Also, Logo's post sums it up pretty nicely IMO.
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United States5162 Posts
On February 21 2012 09:09 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:59 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:52 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:47 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Yes, because the very act of making a website that says you are opposed to a horrendous political law makes you a criminal. Duh. It pains me that blatant DNS censorship is going on and people are justifying it. No, not at all. There is a difference between speaking up for crime and facilitating it actually being done. Crime is relative country to country. The internet is a very grey area. This blocking has nothing to do with "the law", it has to do with corporations wanting to cling to the old ways before the internet and spilling hundreds of millions into the judiciary system to stop any attempt at breaking that cycle. Just look at SOPA, tens of millions of dollars were injected into it to get it pushed as far as possible before anyone noticed and the same shit goes on in other countries. Don't fool yourself and think it's because of "the law" or for any form of moral value. It's a man in a penthouse's greed. Plain and simple. That's true. Old men are trying to protect their investments from a medium they don't understand. That doesn't actually change anything though. The fact that they should adapt with the times and adopt a itunes/steam model to actually provide a good service doesn't justify you in taking it anyways. I oppose SOPA and all that jazz, but I do support people being able to control content they create. I think patent/copyright laws need to reverted back to what they were before the 70s/80s, but in general I think they're a good thing. I agree that it doesn't, but you need to look at the issue. Ok so take TPB vs Megaupload. MU was partially based out of the US and was in violation of US law. They get arrested and the site shut down. Personally it's still a bit grey to me some of the issues in MU was a little more legit, but there's damming evidence so I'll side with MU being illegal for this discussion and the take down was justified. So you have a site that was violating a US law and was taken down because of that violation. Makes perfect sense. TPB is completely based out of Sweden and is not violating any Swedish laws (anymore). So this is not an issue of a website being taken off line for an illegal activity, but rather a country saying it values its copyright laws more than the ability to maintain an open Internet. We condemn other countries for blocking websites (China, NK as mentioned) because we consider those websites legal because they are legal in our own country. If someone is from Sweden they can say the exact same thing as we say about China and NK. The two situations are NOT the same. So it's not about TPB = illegal = take it down and we're done. It's about what it means to block web content because it conflicts with your nation's views/laws. In my opinion countries should not filter/block websites and instead each country should maintain what it allows to be hosted in its own country and enforce those restrictions with their own laws.
The situation isn't the same as China either because they aren't blocking speech. They are blocking the facilitation of illegal acts. Not illegal speech; illegal acts. Not even victimless crime acts - like homosexuality, ect - even though I'll admit it's more victimless then they'd like us to believe, but it does hurt the industry imo,
And while I'd like to think it's possible to allow the internet to stay open and free like all us believe it should be, when each country has a different idea what it's citizens should be allowed to access, it's pretty much inevitable that it will be divided by country borders like the real world is. I hope to be proven wrong on that.
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On February 21 2012 09:15 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 09:09 Logo wrote:On February 21 2012 08:59 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:52 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:47 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Yes, because the very act of making a website that says you are opposed to a horrendous political law makes you a criminal. Duh. It pains me that blatant DNS censorship is going on and people are justifying it. No, not at all. There is a difference between speaking up for crime and facilitating it actually being done. Crime is relative country to country. The internet is a very grey area. This blocking has nothing to do with "the law", it has to do with corporations wanting to cling to the old ways before the internet and spilling hundreds of millions into the judiciary system to stop any attempt at breaking that cycle. Just look at SOPA, tens of millions of dollars were injected into it to get it pushed as far as possible before anyone noticed and the same shit goes on in other countries. Don't fool yourself and think it's because of "the law" or for any form of moral value. It's a man in a penthouse's greed. Plain and simple. That's true. Old men are trying to protect their investments from a medium they don't understand. That doesn't actually change anything though. The fact that they should adapt with the times and adopt a itunes/steam model to actually provide a good service doesn't justify you in taking it anyways. I oppose SOPA and all that jazz, but I do support people being able to control content they create. I think patent/copyright laws need to reverted back to what they were before the 70s/80s, but in general I think they're a good thing. I agree that it doesn't, but you need to look at the issue. Ok so take TPB vs Megaupload. MU was partially based out of the US and was in violation of US law. They get arrested and the site shut down. Personally it's still a bit grey to me some of the issues in MU was a little more legit, but there's damming evidence so I'll side with MU being illegal for this discussion and the take down was justified. So you have a site that was violating a US law and was taken down because of that violation. Makes perfect sense. TPB is completely based out of Sweden and is not violating any Swedish laws (anymore). So this is not an issue of a website being taken off line for an illegal activity, but rather a country saying it values its copyright laws more than the ability to maintain an open Internet. We condemn other countries for blocking websites (China, NK as mentioned) because we consider those websites legal because they are legal in our own country. If someone is from Sweden they can say the exact same thing as we say about China and NK. The two situations are NOT the same. So it's not about TPB = illegal = take it down and we're done. It's about what it means to block web content because it conflicts with your nation's views/laws. In my opinion countries should not filter/block websites and instead each country should maintain what it allows to be hosted in its own country and enforce those restrictions with their own laws. The situation isn't the same as China either because they aren't blocking speech. They are blocking the facilitation of illegal acts.
Fucking hell.
Legal is relative
You think they're "blocking speech" in China? They're blocking what's ILLEGAL over there and against THEIR law.
I promised myself I would stop posting. Last time I promise :|
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United States5162 Posts
On February 21 2012 09:18 Candadar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 09:15 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 09:09 Logo wrote:On February 21 2012 08:59 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:52 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:47 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Yes, because the very act of making a website that says you are opposed to a horrendous political law makes you a criminal. Duh. It pains me that blatant DNS censorship is going on and people are justifying it. No, not at all. There is a difference between speaking up for crime and facilitating it actually being done. Crime is relative country to country. The internet is a very grey area. This blocking has nothing to do with "the law", it has to do with corporations wanting to cling to the old ways before the internet and spilling hundreds of millions into the judiciary system to stop any attempt at breaking that cycle. Just look at SOPA, tens of millions of dollars were injected into it to get it pushed as far as possible before anyone noticed and the same shit goes on in other countries. Don't fool yourself and think it's because of "the law" or for any form of moral value. It's a man in a penthouse's greed. Plain and simple. That's true. Old men are trying to protect their investments from a medium they don't understand. That doesn't actually change anything though. The fact that they should adapt with the times and adopt a itunes/steam model to actually provide a good service doesn't justify you in taking it anyways. I oppose SOPA and all that jazz, but I do support people being able to control content they create. I think patent/copyright laws need to reverted back to what they were before the 70s/80s, but in general I think they're a good thing. I agree that it doesn't, but you need to look at the issue. Ok so take TPB vs Megaupload. MU was partially based out of the US and was in violation of US law. They get arrested and the site shut down. Personally it's still a bit grey to me some of the issues in MU was a little more legit, but there's damming evidence so I'll side with MU being illegal for this discussion and the take down was justified. So you have a site that was violating a US law and was taken down because of that violation. Makes perfect sense. TPB is completely based out of Sweden and is not violating any Swedish laws (anymore). So this is not an issue of a website being taken off line for an illegal activity, but rather a country saying it values its copyright laws more than the ability to maintain an open Internet. We condemn other countries for blocking websites (China, NK as mentioned) because we consider those websites legal because they are legal in our own country. If someone is from Sweden they can say the exact same thing as we say about China and NK. The two situations are NOT the same. So it's not about TPB = illegal = take it down and we're done. It's about what it means to block web content because it conflicts with your nation's views/laws. In my opinion countries should not filter/block websites and instead each country should maintain what it allows to be hosted in its own country and enforce those restrictions with their own laws. The situation isn't the same as China either because they aren't blocking speech. They are blocking the facilitation of illegal acts. Not illegal speech; illegal acts. Not even victimless crime acts - like homosexuality, ect - even though I'll admit it's more victimless then they'd like us to believe, but it does hurt the industry imo, And while I'd like to think it's possible to allow the internet to stay open and free like all us believe it should be, when each country has a different idea what it's citizens should be allowed to access, it's pretty much inevitable that it will be divided by country borders like the real world is. I hope to be proven wrong on that. Fucking hell. Legal is relativeYou think they're "blocking speech" in China? They're blocking what's ILLEGAL over there and against THEIR law. I promised myself I would stop posting. Last time I promise :|
Holy shit that's why I had a whole thing about illegal acts vs illegal speech, with even some victimless crime thrown in. There is a difference. Please do stop posting, because you don't actually address anything and instead make blanket statements that I fucking talked about in the post you responded to.
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On February 21 2012 09:15 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 09:09 Logo wrote:On February 21 2012 08:59 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:52 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:47 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Yes, because the very act of making a website that says you are opposed to a horrendous political law makes you a criminal. Duh. It pains me that blatant DNS censorship is going on and people are justifying it. No, not at all. There is a difference between speaking up for crime and facilitating it actually being done. Crime is relative country to country. The internet is a very grey area. This blocking has nothing to do with "the law", it has to do with corporations wanting to cling to the old ways before the internet and spilling hundreds of millions into the judiciary system to stop any attempt at breaking that cycle. Just look at SOPA, tens of millions of dollars were injected into it to get it pushed as far as possible before anyone noticed and the same shit goes on in other countries. Don't fool yourself and think it's because of "the law" or for any form of moral value. It's a man in a penthouse's greed. Plain and simple. That's true. Old men are trying to protect their investments from a medium they don't understand. That doesn't actually change anything though. The fact that they should adapt with the times and adopt a itunes/steam model to actually provide a good service doesn't justify you in taking it anyways. I oppose SOPA and all that jazz, but I do support people being able to control content they create. I think patent/copyright laws need to reverted back to what they were before the 70s/80s, but in general I think they're a good thing. I agree that it doesn't, but you need to look at the issue. Ok so take TPB vs Megaupload. MU was partially based out of the US and was in violation of US law. They get arrested and the site shut down. Personally it's still a bit grey to me some of the issues in MU was a little more legit, but there's damming evidence so I'll side with MU being illegal for this discussion and the take down was justified. So you have a site that was violating a US law and was taken down because of that violation. Makes perfect sense. TPB is completely based out of Sweden and is not violating any Swedish laws (anymore). So this is not an issue of a website being taken off line for an illegal activity, but rather a country saying it values its copyright laws more than the ability to maintain an open Internet. We condemn other countries for blocking websites (China, NK as mentioned) because we consider those websites legal because they are legal in our own country. If someone is from Sweden they can say the exact same thing as we say about China and NK. The two situations are NOT the same. So it's not about TPB = illegal = take it down and we're done. It's about what it means to block web content because it conflicts with your nation's views/laws. In my opinion countries should not filter/block websites and instead each country should maintain what it allows to be hosted in its own country and enforce those restrictions with their own laws. The situation isn't the same as China either because they aren't blocking speech. They are blocking the facilitation of illegal acts. Not illegal speech; illegal acts. Not even victimless crime acts - like homosexuality, ect - even though I'll admit it's more victimless then they'd like us to believe, but it does hurt the industry imo, And while I'd like to think it's possible to allow the internet to stay open and free like all us believe it should be, when each country has a different idea what it's citizens should be allowed to access, it's pretty much inevitable that it will be divided by country borders like the real world is. I hope to be proven wrong on that.
They are blocking speech; it's a website. It sends you bits that make words. It also happens to send you bits that you can use to ask for bits from someone else that if you get those bits you've violated copyright law (in the US that would be a civil issue, dunno about UK). Accessing TPB or anything hosted by TPB isn't illegal. You are about as close to illegal content on TPB's homepage as you would be here on TL if I posted a link to a MegaUpload download.
Or better yet you're about as close to illegal content on TPB as you are on Google.
I suggest reading up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_URI_scheme if you aren't familiar with them.
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United States5162 Posts
On February 21 2012 09:20 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 09:15 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 09:09 Logo wrote:On February 21 2012 08:59 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:54 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:52 Myles wrote:On February 21 2012 08:47 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Yes, because the very act of making a website that says you are opposed to a horrendous political law makes you a criminal. Duh. It pains me that blatant DNS censorship is going on and people are justifying it. No, not at all. There is a difference between speaking up for crime and facilitating it actually being done. Crime is relative country to country. The internet is a very grey area. This blocking has nothing to do with "the law", it has to do with corporations wanting to cling to the old ways before the internet and spilling hundreds of millions into the judiciary system to stop any attempt at breaking that cycle. Just look at SOPA, tens of millions of dollars were injected into it to get it pushed as far as possible before anyone noticed and the same shit goes on in other countries. Don't fool yourself and think it's because of "the law" or for any form of moral value. It's a man in a penthouse's greed. Plain and simple. That's true. Old men are trying to protect their investments from a medium they don't understand. That doesn't actually change anything though. The fact that they should adapt with the times and adopt a itunes/steam model to actually provide a good service doesn't justify you in taking it anyways. I oppose SOPA and all that jazz, but I do support people being able to control content they create. I think patent/copyright laws need to reverted back to what they were before the 70s/80s, but in general I think they're a good thing. I agree that it doesn't, but you need to look at the issue. Ok so take TPB vs Megaupload. MU was partially based out of the US and was in violation of US law. They get arrested and the site shut down. Personally it's still a bit grey to me some of the issues in MU was a little more legit, but there's damming evidence so I'll side with MU being illegal for this discussion and the take down was justified. So you have a site that was violating a US law and was taken down because of that violation. Makes perfect sense. TPB is completely based out of Sweden and is not violating any Swedish laws (anymore). So this is not an issue of a website being taken off line for an illegal activity, but rather a country saying it values its copyright laws more than the ability to maintain an open Internet. We condemn other countries for blocking websites (China, NK as mentioned) because we consider those websites legal because they are legal in our own country. If someone is from Sweden they can say the exact same thing as we say about China and NK. The two situations are NOT the same. So it's not about TPB = illegal = take it down and we're done. It's about what it means to block web content because it conflicts with your nation's views/laws. In my opinion countries should not filter/block websites and instead each country should maintain what it allows to be hosted in its own country and enforce those restrictions with their own laws. The situation isn't the same as China either because they aren't blocking speech. They are blocking the facilitation of illegal acts. Not illegal speech; illegal acts. Not even victimless crime acts - like homosexuality, ect - even though I'll admit it's more victimless then they'd like us to believe, but it does hurt the industry imo, And while I'd like to think it's possible to allow the internet to stay open and free like all us believe it should be, when each country has a different idea what it's citizens should be allowed to access, it's pretty much inevitable that it will be divided by country borders like the real world is. I hope to be proven wrong on that. They are blocking speech; it's a website. It sends you bits that make words. It also happens to send you bits that you can use to ask for bits from someone else that if you get those bits you've violated copyright law (in the US that would be a civil issue, dunno about UK). Accessing TPB or anything hosted by TPB isn't illegal.
This is a valid point. Thank you! I'll edit this in a second because that last post really fucking pissed me off.
TPB itself facilitates the crime, that's there liability. It's similar to when a neighborhood was blocked off when I was in high school because it was known that kids were going there right after school to get drugs. They couldn't stop the drug deals themselves so they just stopped non-residents from going there.
And another thing is plausible deniability and good faith. Google, whether it really cares about piracy or not, at least acts like they're trying. PirateBay flaunts the fact that they are only there to help pirates.
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On February 21 2012 09:11 Candadar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On February 21 2012 08:58 Candadar wrote:On February 21 2012 08:57 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On February 21 2012 08:44 archonOOid wrote:
so if i put up a website encourage speeding it will then be banned? doesn't make sense. does not compute. Encouraging is fine. Physically helping someone commit the crime is another matter. You heard it here first. TPB is physically helping people commit crimes. The sheer amount of ignorance of the internet and how it works is astonishing in this thread, and really any thread about piracy or the internet. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't make an opinion on it. That doesn't mean "you can't disagree with me", if you agree with this -- I don't really mind. It's the people who clearly don't have a grasp on the internet, how it works, and technology as a whole and are making it abundantly clear. Educate yourselves on the matter, and then make an opinion. Please. Computers are physical objects too. Software that runs on them makes physical things happen. I mean really, the 'I know more about the internetz' argument is pretty lame. It's not about me "knowing more about the internetz" It's about people in this thread knowing absolutely nothing and then making opinions. Like that. You just said software was a physical object because computers are physical objects. I'll back off from the discussion so I don't blow a gasket, but holy fuck, please for the love of God -- you're making opinions without any knowledge of how anything works. It's not me being pretentious, it's me being honest. There's so much ignorance here (granted, on both sides) that it's detestable. Also, Logo's post sums it up pretty nicely IMO.
**rolls eyes**
I said it makes physical things happen.
Like directions. If I direct you to a guy on the street who is selling something illegal I'm physically facilitating the process of an illegal sale.
I'd rather not argue semantics all day tho. Do you have any other complaints about what I said? Other than my word choice?
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magnets, how do they work?
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EPT
