EPTResponsibility Mafia! - Page 59
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6782 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
1. Meapak 2. RoL 3. kitaman Yet, when I look at the direct information and the possible scum teams and the reasoning behind their actions, I get the opposite result. 1. kitaman 2. Meapak 3. RoL The reasoning being Kita's hit has the weakest claim. If Kita had been shot instead of prphlz, Meapak's claim would have been 100% accepted. We would have never known kita had shot as well. However if meapak had been shot and kita alive, kita as town would probably be better off not claiming he used his shot to threaten mafia with unknown information, even if he was sure his shot had gone through and meapak's shot refunded. Kita as scum would be in such a weak position against prphlz and RoL, that he might as well claim a shot against anyone and claimed RB. If he had claimed the hit before results, he would be nearly confirmed in my eyes. With this, there is a lot of room for him to be scum. It looks desperate. That said, I still hold him as my top town read. The L lynch look way to spontaneous in scum shoes. Meapak's absence during the L lynch really get's me when you look at it from scum perspective. L/syllo: "Well we can't control the lynch as well without our 3rd member present, so we will have to push someone as best we can. Ah L is getting hammered, we can't afford to chance all the townies jumping on the same vote. Meapak/chez might not as well vote at all, and we just let L get lynched." With RoL as the third member, then prphlz is pretty on point, that they don't care who gets lynched, they are just trying to buy town points either way. Then on top of this, this requires RoL to have had a particular scenario play out that is practically out of the question unless you specifically force RoL as scum in your head. L looks much more like he is trying to get rid of a dangerously close to confirmed townie player rather then bussing a teammate who is in such a good position for scum that it would be hard if the RoL lynch got passed through and to pass it off as L brilliantly deciphering the correct scenario. It takes a very estranged mind (bum's) to really consider RoL as scum. Or maybe I'm fucking up with RoL's position. If he survives the night, I think that is a big topic that needs explaining. Or maybe you guys are fluent in "RoL's alignment"-ese. Fuck thinking my head hurts. My fingers are hitting the backspace more then all the other keys combined. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
Day 5 Nobody died gl hf. 47 hours 15 minutes to lynch. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6782 Posts
If you think that my lack of vote alone makes me scum then you need to broaden your sights a bit. Right now in your scenario, I'm scum and I claim to have shot syllo... to what end? If I'm scum then I already used my shot on prp, but I can't force syllo to die. My only option is to claim RB but wait, I already rb'd sheth. If I had called my shot after the day post and saw syllo had died it would have made a lot more sense because now I have syllo's death to back me up. But I claimed before the deadline. If I'm scum then how do I know that syllo will die, and furthermore, what is my backup if I already rb'd sheth. If syllo doesn't die then I'm forced to claim rb, but then sheth cc's me. Even if I get a mislynch on sheth, when he flips green I've still outed myself. Do you see where the problem is Bum? | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On January 03 2012 15:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Bum I didn't vote because I had no idea wtf was going on. I hadn't read the thread at all so for all I knew L could have been town. I was subbed in like 4 hours before the lynch ended and up until that point I hadn't opened the thread since I asked to be taken out of them game. If you think that my lack of vote alone makes me scum then you need to broaden your sights a bit. Right now in your scenario, I'm scum and I claim to have shot syllo... to what end? If I'm scum then I already used my shot on prp, but I can't force syllo to die. My only option is to claim RB but wait, I already rb'd sheth. If I had called my shot after the day post and saw syllo had died it would have made a lot more sense because now I have syllo's death to back me up. But I claimed before the deadline. If I'm scum then how do I know that syllo will die, and furthermore, what is my backup if I already rb'd sheth. If syllo doesn't die then I'm forced to claim rb, but then sheth cc's me. Even if I get a mislynch on sheth, when he flips green I've still outed myself. Do you see where the problem is Bum? No, chezinu not being present during a powerful lynch, which ended up with mafia giving a sigh and not fighting a lynch of one of their own, ergo they probably did not have all the manpower they wanted. It's not you with-holding your vote that makes you scum, it's that there was a missing vote and we still lynched scum. Unless RoL is scum, mafia was not planning for a bus. If both you and syllo were alive, and you counter-claimed sheth's RB, I think you would be in a pretty good position. It's a tad risky if people connect the dots, but sheth's lynch proved he had a much larger fanclub of people who wanted to lynch him. This makes sense to why you are scum. The only thing that stops me from reaching that conclusion is the situation in which you died and syllo lived. That would make syllo look awful. I can't figure out if it would be worth it, or if you are willing to take that risk, or just ignored that outcome as an impossibility for whatever reason. That claim could have been a better explained, but it also came at exactly enough time for me to think you'd be townier then most individuals. RoL and kita don't happen to be those 'most inidividuals'. On January 03 2012 16:42 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: ##Vote Bumatlarge  We do no-lynch, right? | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On January 03 2012 15:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Bum I didn't vote because I had no idea wtf was going on. I hadn't read the thread at all so for all I knew L could have been town. I was subbed in like 4 hours before the lynch ended and up until that point I hadn't opened the thread since I asked to be taken out of them game. If you think that my lack of vote alone makes me scum then you need to broaden your sights a bit. Right now in your scenario, I'm scum and I claim to have shot syllo... to what end? If I'm scum then I already used my shot on prp, but I can't force syllo to die. My only option is to claim RB but wait, I already rb'd sheth. If I had called my shot after the day post and saw syllo had died it would have made a lot more sense because now I have syllo's death to back me up. But I claimed before the deadline. If I'm scum then how do I know that syllo will die, and furthermore, what is my backup if I already rb'd sheth. If syllo doesn't die then I'm forced to claim rb, but then sheth cc's me. Even if I get a mislynch on sheth, when he flips green I've still outed myself. Do you see where the problem is Bum? Much simpler, you could of been scum and killed prp and claimed the syllo hit knowing that even if you were CC'd it wouldn't mean anything since hits can overlap and you both lose it. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On December 23 2011 17:25 Chezinu wrote: Hey guys, I was role blocked last night. This game is doomed. I won't be posting anymore anytime soon.  Oh I agreed with L on his position that this game is broken. This is dumb, this game is dumb. About the seventh time I've read chezinu's filter. FUCK HELL CHEZINU | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On January 03 2012 04:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: crap didn't mean to hit enter, did you talk to Chezinu at all before taking his role over? The reason I asked this is because if you read Chezinu's filter carefully enough you will see it. On December 21 2011 00:07 Chezinu wrote: Well, this game is all about people's ability to respond....response ability.. I'm totally dead for saying responsibility so many times. He hints at what his role is here, his role is trigger by saying a certain phrase too many times according to meapak. So either they are town and the role is legit, or Chezinu was setting up this fakeclaim, went inactive then had the mental capacity to PM Meapak and give him an out and a fakeclaim out of a really bad situation. At the same time the mafia could of told him of this fake claim they were working up, but by the time meapak subbed in they were all dead iirc, so no one could of told him what happened and that Chezinu worked up a fake claim, unless they talked about it all in a quick topic and meapak read it all. Notice which scenario is much simpler? It involves both of them being honest about their role, which means I doubt they are scum, and considering Chezinu's filter, that's the best I could come up with. Then I look at Kitaman, he started the lynch on L, but that's not really the important part. Look at the mafias position going into that, it was a 5v3 situation and they needed one last mislynch, L was reaming into me hard trying to force my mislynch it doesn't REMOTELY look like he was setting himself up to get bussed, he was pushing for the end game right there. Instead Kita pushes his lynch and it gets flipped on L. I read him yesterday, but it would require an impeccable scum game from Kita for this read to be wrong and all the things he did be setting up the illusion of being town. With those two reads I had the process of elimination and that leaves bumatlarge, I could only hope his filter didn't disagree with me, and it didn't. But I have work, so the rest of that comes later. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
bumatlarge I had the strongest town read on bum going into today, mainly because he seems to be the player that cares the most. He was the only other person around at the deadline during the BC no-lynch and he was the most help at moving the votes from RoL to L on day three. My biggest concern with bum is that he has been buddying up with multiple players, chez at the beginning of the game and myself the last few days. He seems to share the same motivations as myself however, so I'm still leaning town. RebirthOfLeGenD On December 23 2011 14:42 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: That would also explain why GM released all his reads. If you believe my analysis of this, then congrats. I am now confirmed town by GM's death, or at the very least, confirmed not mafia. If only he said specifically how his role worked, oh well. On December 23 2011 14:39 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: He's apologizing in case he dies. I am guessing he has some sort of conscience where if he doesn't target a mafia then he dies. This post reads like a last will and testament because GM knew he was going to die. This could also explain why I didn't die or get notified of getting hit at all. His hit is only successful if its on a mafia, or he dies instead. This would also fit nicely with the theme of the game too. On December 23 2011 15:16 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: More likely, the mafia was going to let GM kill himself/whoever else since it wasn't them, and as a result GM hit me and killed himself because I am town aligned. I'm always weary of a player who says they are "confirmed town". On three different occasions, RoL attempts to explain that surviving GM's hit makes him town. LSB mentions that the suicide vig kills both targets if they are incorrect and GM makes no effort to correct him. If GM's role was really different, I'm almost certain that he would mention so, rather than leave us in the dark wondering why he is dead, but his target isn't. GM being roleblocked and shot or RoL being somehow protected are the only two scenarios that I think are likely. From a balance perspective, if everyone one of us are vigs, I think it is extremely likely that every scum must have had a role as well. I would be really surprised if the scum team didn't have 1-2 vig roles. Otherwise, any town vig that successfully shoots immediately becomes confirmed town and mafia can do nothing to stop it. With 15 vig's, I would also be surprised if mafia didn't have a medic or busdriver or some other disruptive role. Town just has too much firepower for a single roleblocker to make the setup balanced. We already know that L somehow survived a shot on night two from Foolishness. The only reason I'd be willing to consider RoL telling the truth about not receiving a hit is that L appeared so focused on pushing RoL on day three. At LYLO, it is much easier to push for the mislynch than to set oneself up for the late game, knowing that there are tons of potential vig shots left to worry about. It is possible that the reason there was no mafia resistance on day three was that both lynch candidates were scum. If that were the case, mafia would have to settle for the bus and make their play at the next LYLO. The one other concern I have about RoL is that it really seems like he isn't paying close attention to what is going on. On day one, he votes for Chez as a placeholder and never returns to vote. On day two, he speculates about GM's role, only to be later informed that GM already has role claimed. On day four, he votes for a Sheth lynch, without even being aware that myself and Meapak had claimed to shoot syllo. RoL, I'd like to hear a case on bum from you, rather than you imply he is scum based on eliminating myself and meapak as possible scum. Meapak Unfortunately, we only have a couple of things to go by since chezinu was gone for such a long time. I still don't understand why chezinu would fake-claim roleblock. Did he indicate his reasoning to you Meapak? The only reason I can think of would be if the scum team really did roleblock GM and he wanted to set up a RoL mislynch or if he wanted make the scum team have to worry about a town roleblocker. The acronym vig is a strange role to claim, but with so many other better fake claims it is strange that would be the best he could come up with if he was lying. Compared to the spam vig, BM vig, liar vig, or suicide vig, an acronym vig doesn't really fit in the the responsibility theme of the game. Meapak claimed to shoot syllo based on his use of the word scummy, which isn't even an acronym. Chez's possible breadcrumb strengthens the roleclaim, however, like I mentioned with RoL, I don't think being a vig necessarily confirms you as town. The biggest thing holding me back from voting Meapak is that I'm not sure I see the motivation for calling his shot, hoping that someone else would also claim the same shot. Meapak is the person I'd like to ask some real time questions to in particular. What time works best for you? I'll be awake up to around 1am EST. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6782 Posts
On January 04 2012 00:06 bumatlarge wrote: Oh, if both you and syllo were alive and scum, and you managed a mislynch on sheth, you would win. 3-2 after night with no vig shots then 2-2, since now it's confirmed to me that there is still a roleblocker. But here's the thing, if syllo and I are both scum, when sheth flips we're both confirmed scum basically you and kita blast us, we can only kill one of you and town wins with two people left. Sure we could hope that town wouldn't be smart enough to shoot us but with the caliber of people left in this game that's not a gamble I think any of us still alive would take. Let's walk through it again. I make my claim (as scum) and syllo lives (remember I have no way of controling syllo's death at this point since I've already shot prplhz). I HAVE to claim rb'd. But the problem is I already rb'd sheth so I KNOW there will be a counter claim. As expected Sheth claims rb'd. Yes I can mislynch sheth but when he flips town I'm basically confirmed as scum along with syllo. The following night Bum and Kita shoot us and it's game over. Now let's look at my actions from a town perspective. When is the optimal time for a townie to claim? Right before the day post. Unlike scum they're not concerned about whether their target lives or dies because if their target doesn't die then they can legitimately claim rb'd and do so without the pressure of lying. I can't keep stating this enough. As scum, it's stupid for me to claim before the day post because I have no control over the outcome. Meanwhile as town I have nothing to fear because regardless of what happens I can tell the truth whereas a scum is basically outing themselves in a situation where they don't have full control over the procedings. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6782 Posts
In terms of real time questioning I'm around right now, I have something at 5pm PST until 9:30pm PST but if you're still awake after that we could talk then as well. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 04 2012 05:31 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: In terms of real time questioning I'm around right now, I have something at 5pm PST until 9:30pm PST but if you're still awake after that we could talk then as well. Alright, that works, just let me know when you're around later tonight. Also, would it be possible for you to post your current reads by then? | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6782 Posts
Also this may not matter much any more but fuck you bum, I hate you so much you're terrible at this game you should seriously go and jump off a building so we never have to play with you again. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
KITAMAN, YOU SHALL BE PURGED. NO MERE ROLEBLOCK CAN STOP MY WRATH. And guys, no lynch right? I mean, this might just a test in order to see if scum can increase his chances, but it might be that he cannot kill anyone? Then we get two lynches? I mean it's really stretching, but there is no reason not to wait. Ver is a cruel dude sometimes, but he isn't bill murray (Cue 2nd no-lynch gives mafia 2 KP). We still have a lot of cycles to go through. Meh, maybe to give scum time to figure out what he isn't doing  Can we opt to end the day early? | ||
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