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On January 24 2014 03:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 03:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like what's the fucking point of me coming in and trying when people just think it's funny and make jokes and NOT talk about my contributions?
Yeah, this game can eat shit. ? Stop it dear. Do you think kita is actually suspicious or is it just the combinatrics thing you find weird? If not kita, who?
The only thing that stops me with regard to Kita is how early he was bringing attention to Sandroba. I think the Combinatrics thing is weird, but if he's scum with Sandro then that's a long, hard, sustained bus by Kita that I'm not sure I believe would have occurred.
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But the thing is, that's NOT where his vote lands, in spite of the early attention, and in spite of Kita being "totes serious, we should lynch today".
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^ with regard to Sandroba. I called his vote on Sand a joke and he was "not joking".
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On January 24 2014 03:49 Promethelax wrote:
Well Kita, why did you abandon your silly pairings?
Yes. I didn't put much time into it though since I decided to spend more time on individuals yesterday. I may see if it gives us anything today, but I want to get the vote analysis looked at first. More of a side thing at the moment..
@gonzaw. I'm not sure what democratic vote thing you are referring to. I intended the list to mostly be for personal use with the option for people to share opinions if they see fit.
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I'm going to go ahead and say this, because I feel like I have to. I would have switched to Sand if I were here when the stuff was going down. Like, I know that it doesn't mean anything, but I feel like people should at least consider that motivation coming from me as well - I think my posts leading up to lynch should indicate that I WAS looking at Sand more than I had been previously (read: tunnel Prome vs. mentioning other players). Whatever you THINK about my absence at lynch time, the fact is I simply wasn't here because I could not be. I cared about the lynch, I just wasn't here for the lynch.
Now, I'm reading. I MAY be able to respond to questions.
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Is there any reason we're ruling out a Foolishness/Sandroba/Promethelax scumteam?
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You mean besides the fact that they were the only candidates for a lynch, bussed the hell out of each other, yet seemed suspiciously calm about the whole thing?
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Not good ones. Like, Foolish was the most active of those three players. Chew on that for a minute.
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Well, post reasons then.
Is there any reason we should consider a Foolishness/Sandroba/Promethelax scumteam?
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The lynch could have easily been on Foolishness. He's right about that. There's no reason for a scumteam to save Foolishness if he's town.
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So imagine that inactive Prom and inactive sand ARE both scum. What does scumFoolish do? He busses one of them.
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Except then the lynch swings to the other one.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On January 24 2014 04:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and say this, because I feel like I have to. I would have switched to Sand if I were here when the stuff was going down.
What stuff going down are you referring to? Weren't you completely caught up to sandroba's re-enterence to the thread? If you are referring to the vote switch, does that mean that the only reason you didn't move your vote earlier was due to the fact that you didn't think he was an option, rather than you feeling Foolishness was a better lynch?
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If Foolish had been lynched then Prom would have looked better. Sand being lynched says nothing at all, but it wasn't scum motivated. Scum wanted Foolish or Prom to be the one that flipped.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 24 2014 01:49 gonzaw wrote:Anyways, nobody listened to me so I'll do it myself: kita makes that "joke-serious" post on sandro here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=12#223That alone doesn't really tell me much about kita though. Later, he keeps doing the "sandro is a good lynch vote him!" stuff, which could be odd if his sandro's buddy. But then he drops it so it's not really alignment indicative. Hmm, although it puts him in a more townie light. For example with this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=14#268http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=14#270Kita's vote on sandro do seem to have a purpose, which is consistent with his posts up there. It is a discussion starter, it does pressure the lurker, etc. I don't find it likely scum kita would start his "game" at the coast of sandro like that. Not strong evidence, but my gut says it makes sense as town kita. Also, in a wifomy way, I think this makes Hapa very likely town (more than he is now): Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 09:39 Hapahauli wrote:On January 21 2014 09:31 kitaman27 wrote:On January 21 2014 09:29 sandroba wrote:
I'm trying to figure that out too. My plan as of now is to wait for some scummer to give themselves away in their first post. Not much of a plan if you're going to warn people about what you're looking for. ##Vote Sandroba(Did you catch me?) Normally, even early-game troll votes have some pretense to find someone suspicious/mafia (even if stretched alot). This post doesn't follow. It doesn't call Sandroba scum in any joking/trolling way. You're just calling his actions dumb, then voting for them. Which is a pretty scummy thought process. How are you constructing Sandroba's post to be scummy as opposed to just stupid? If you are scum, and your scumbuddy makes an "awful" first post someone votes him for....do you really chainsaw defend him in such an OBVIOUS manner? Hapa keeps up with this too, going against kita. It feels genuine. Also this: Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 11:18 Hapahauli wrote:On January 21 2014 10:51 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 21 2014 10:46 kitaman27 wrote:On January 21 2014 10:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Welp, gonna go with my usual opener.
I think the only difference here is for the first time I'm actually relieved to roll town. I'd be pretty terrified to go up against this town as scum. I was kinda hoping to role mafia with the all vanilla setup. They probably have the advantage regardless of who is playing. Wanna vote sandroba with me? He may or may not be scummy. lol I'm really hoping you're not scum kita. Nah no reason to vote sandroba yet. Not only is there basically nothing to vote him for, I've seen what he's capable of as the game progresses (from PYP) and if he is town and plays this game anything like that, he'll start slow and then start bringing the pain to scum. I don't understand your reasoning here. What does him being a "slow-starter" have to do with not wanting to vote for him? For example, wouldn't it be arguably good to put pressure on him early to determine his alignment? He even plays devil's advocate when someone defends sandro. He didn't hesitate to do this kind of stuff. I just don't see him doing this being scumbuddies with sandro at all. Of course, there's the rest of his play, but this I think basically convinces me to never lynch Hapa in this game. So, this is our foundation so far
gonzaw
austin
HapaThese 3 are untouchables, remove them from any scumlist, or any "possible" scum list (at least until one of them does something utterly stupid or something). marvy marv is not untouchable yet. But to touch him, you have to do it softly and gently.
I don't see any reason why all five of the people on sandroba aren't exempt. Yes I know what I said about marvellosity yesterday and that I would lynch him, but as I pointed out in my previous post here it doesn't seem likely for mafia to hop aboard the sandroba bandwagon. Really the most likely scenario of this happening is the mafia bus of sandroba, and given by the votes and who was voting that would probably mean that I'm mafia as well.
I suggest reading my post I linked above again because based on the timestamps and who was voting and why I think it's clear that everyone on sandroba is town (as unlikely as that sounds in terms of raw numbers). Any of the people that switched had good reason to keep their vote on me. Moreso, as I pointed out, it is likely that Promethelax is town because mafia were sitting good with myself being the top lynch and second in line (Promethelax) also a town lynch.
The overall point here is that the sandroba bandwagon was not initiated by mafia nor exacerbated by mafia. Mafia were sitting pretty and never expected that sort of switch to happen in the last 10 minutes. Furthermore the votes on sandroba were so close (1 minute apart for the last two) that it's very unlikely Promethelax was like, "oh I can vote for my mafia scumbuddy to gain credibility cause he already has the most votes". No, things happened too fast for it to be planned out like that. No scum would have moved to him at the start, no scum would have moved to him during the middle, and no scum would move to him at the end.
Based on what happened, I suggest we look at WoS as well as VE. I like the arguments brought up against VE so far and I think a lot of the same thing can be applied to WoS as well. In particular lazily throwing his vote down on me. Here are his posts about me after I started posting in the second half of the day up to the point where he voted for me and left.
On January 23 2014 05:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
But I am in no way convinced about Prome by your earlier case, like, at all. Your return simply makes me want to lynch you less.
On January 23 2014 05:52 WaveofShadow wrote:
IF VE is scum I will have a big sad.
I'm quickly running out of time as I won't be here for lynch so I may have to sheep someone---my other strong townreads aren't here atm so it may be gonzaw.
Gonzaw assuming you now hold my vote as well and could place it where you wanted, which of the two you mentioned would you put it on?
On January 23 2014 05:58 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 05:54 gonzaw wrote:On January 23 2014 05:52 WaveofShadow wrote:
IF VE is scum I will have a big sad.
I'm quickly running out of time as I won't be here for lynch so I may have to sheep someone---my other strong townreads aren't here atm so it may be gonzaw.
Gonzaw assuming you now hold my vote as well and could place it where you wanted, which of the two you mentioned would you put it on? Foolishness. So not marv/sandroba then. I might still be able to get behind that. His answers were good enough...they fit for lack of a better term, and I'm not bothered by the same thing you are regarding his read of austin but it's the early play that doesn't make sense to me. I can't reconcile his using the barest effort he put in for the first 30 or so hours of the game to first toss a vote up on me and give what appeared to me to be 'not the greatest' reads... I want to re-look over his case on Prome because I already know I thought hsi case on me was pure bunk and I said so earlier---I'm a little too self-focused.
On January 23 2014 06:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright final post, I'm feeling better about dropping my vote here.
Call it a sheep of gonzaw or thread sentiment if you want, if not you can use my current line of questions/suspicion including my earlier problems with his first case on me.
This may be one of the most difficult games I've played in, and it's a good kind of difficult.
##Vote: Foolishness
Be back a little bit after deadline.
What is disturbing about this is his wishy-washy behavior about me. He says he doesn't agree with my case on Promethelax, and that's fine in itself, and he also says he wants to "lynch me less". Then before voting for me says that my answers were "good enough" and that they "fit for a lack of a better term", and that it's my "early play that doesn't make sense to me". If my answers are fitting and good enough why are you voting for me? Just cause you don't agree with me on a person being mafia does not make me mafia. I was actually really surprised when he dropped his vote on me, who tells someone that they have good answers but they are still lynching them?
What is also interesting is that he's entirely sheeping a read and admitting to it. Admitting to sheeping a read does not exempt you from sheeping a read. Does it seem like he has his own opinion on the matter? Does it seem like he has an idea of who to vote for? No. Look through his posts, he never really accuses anyone, and never says that he thinks person X would be a good lynch (as I said above, he never said that directly about me either). He dances around a lot of people, myself, marvellosity, Promethelax, etc.
Sure, he threw his vote down and knew he wasn't going to be here before the deadline, and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is that he had no opinion on who should be lynched before the vote. Also his vote started a landslide, since there were already 2 votes on me, and at the time the next closest persons had 1 vote. This is a critical vote because it started the pile up on me, and when people came back and saw this they started piling on (even though those people piling on are likely town cause they all jumped ship to sandroba).
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In this post, scumFoolish tries to make town believe that scum VE and scum WoS, rather than try and save sandroba somehow, just lazily plop our votes down on Foolish. Because THAT doesn't draw attention to people!
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 24 2014 04:46 gonzaw wrote:
Well, post reasons then.
Is there any reason we should consider a Foolishness/Sandroba/Promethelax scumteam?
If I'm mafia with sandroba that should clear Promethelax. The other mafia would likely to be kitaman or HolyFlare or just a random straggler who was already voting for me.
Promethelax has made a lot of sense in his most recent posting (not the drunk ones, though I actually can't tell for some of them lol). Also sandroba went after him.
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Especially when one of the people in question is EXPLICIT about not wanting to lynch Foolishness D1!
You're up Foolish. :D
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Who was sandroba voting for?
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EPT
