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On February 27 2013 03:36 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 03:19 Alderan wrote:On February 27 2013 03:16 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:11 thrawn2112 wrote:
i might switch to double lynch if some of the adam voters will too Err, it's instant majority, so unless you won't be around to hammer Keir if he approaches the 8 votes needed to lynch, you can safely make that statement by unvoting. Mind explaining how unconcerned you seemed about the duel? You were around at the time, so give us your story. Did the duel come out of the blue? It did for me as I was reading it. You seem pretty calm: On February 26 2013 16:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
##Vote: Keirathi
adam mind explaining why you had to call for the duel right now? Mind explaining your thought process at the time? This tunneling on the idea of the double lynch is incredibly scummy. Let it go, there's no way we're double lynching today, stop dissuading people from placing votes... I like the idea of a scumhunt challenge, just wish it was actually happening. Interesting. Why is it scummy to want to double lynch?
Got off on a rant the first time I answered this question and accidentally closed the tab. Do you really need to explain to you why lynching twice on the first day is less effective than lynching once?
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On February 27 2013 04:05 Alderan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 03:36 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:19 Alderan wrote:On February 27 2013 03:16 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:11 thrawn2112 wrote:
i might switch to double lynch if some of the adam voters will too Err, it's instant majority, so unless you won't be around to hammer Keir if he approaches the 8 votes needed to lynch, you can safely make that statement by unvoting. Mind explaining how unconcerned you seemed about the duel? You were around at the time, so give us your story. Did the duel come out of the blue? It did for me as I was reading it. You seem pretty calm: On February 26 2013 16:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
##Vote: Keirathi
adam mind explaining why you had to call for the duel right now? Mind explaining your thought process at the time? This tunneling on the idea of the double lynch is incredibly scummy. Let it go, there's no way we're double lynching today, stop dissuading people from placing votes... I like the idea of a scumhunt challenge, just wish it was actually happening. Interesting. Why is it scummy to want to double lynch? Got off on a rant the first time I answered this question and accidentally closed the tab. Do you really need to explain to you why lynching twice on the first day is less effective than lynching once?
yes
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11589 Posts
The first lynch is the least informed lynch, and you want to make two of them.
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Let me get this straight, Hapa: you think it's entirely possible Keir is town, but think killing him is the lesser of two evils? If you were a pardoner, would you consider stopping this lynch?
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On February 27 2013 04:01 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 03:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:50 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 03:47 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:43 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 02:51 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:Oh damnit sniped by Oats. On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning? I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in. And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town. If you take Adam's meta, demeanor and bravery into account, how can you ignore his town meta? He has never done anything remotely like pulling a stunt like this. Not in CT, not in WLIIA and not in LIX. The other games I recall from him are Hero where he was scum and a couple of games where he was modkilled for inactivity. Please explain how meticulous Adam, who writes cautious cases deliberating different angles, suddenly throws caution to the wind and says "FUCK YOU, I'M PALMAR BITCHES". What part of Adam's town meta am I missing? But that's the thing - have you ever seen ANYTHING like this from scum Adam? No. It's at odds with his town mentality yes. However, it's even MORE at odds with his scum mentality. Why is Keir being a lurker, something Keir clearly knows is a stupid scumtell, still a scumtell? It is clearly at odds with both of his metas and you seem to think scum is more careful to not stand out like a sore thumb. Thing is, I don't think Kei is intentionally lurking or anything. A lot of his posts have suggested he's busy with work/whatever. His lurking doesn't seem intentional, thus the situation is very different from Adam's intentional DERP duel. So if Keir isn't intentionally lurking what do you find suspicious about his behaviour? Firstly, a major reason I'm voting Kei is because I'm pretty sure Adam is town. As for Kei himself, he hasn't given me any reason to think he's town at all. That and I didn't like his early interactions with Adam. His initial case made no sense to me, and Kei's constantly qualifying that he's not committing to his suspicions: Show nested quote +Nothing else. I'm not entirely convinced Adam is scum, but I wanted some comments on it. Show nested quote +I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my points about Adam and give some comments other than "lol bad". Tell me why. Maybe I'm just paranoid. I mean, at least he did take some kind of stance, and he's right, it was against the grain and I would normally give a few townie points for that. I'm just failing to see how, in this particular instance, his stance is beneficial to town, because I can't really predict any scenario in which he'll have to back it up. Show nested quote +AFAIK, i never said "Okay guys, Adam 100% scum lets lynch him". I saw something, and mentioned it to the thread to get some feedback.
Maybe my original post wasn't full fleshed out, but it made sense as I talked it out more, no? How does that make me scum? My point didn't change, I just explained it better.
And so what, I was being non-committal towards the read. I demonstrably do that as town on day 1. What makes me scum this time, but not the others?
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On February 27 2013 04:10 Acrofales wrote:
Let me get this straight, Hapa: you think it's entirely possible Keir is town, but think killing him is the lesser of two evils? If you were a pardoner, would you consider stopping this lynch?
Yes and yes. None of my top scumreads are on the block right now.
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On February 27 2013 04:10 yamato77 wrote:
The first lynch is the least informed lynch, and you want to make two of them.
This. Oh and night actions could be valuable tonight. Oh and having a vote count gives more information. Oh and lynching both doesn't force either of them to make good arguments that could be helpful.
Terrible play. Worse than Adam's duel imo.
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11589 Posts
I already have an idea of who I want to kill tomorrow, he he.
I'm going afk for a while. Hopefully by this time tomorrow there will be a clearer choice between the two, but right now my vote stays where placed, because Adam has yet to further justify his read on Keirathi as I requested.
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On February 27 2013 04:11 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 04:01 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 03:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:50 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 03:47 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:43 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 02:51 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:Oh damnit sniped by Oats. On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning? I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in. And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town. If you take Adam's meta, demeanor and bravery into account, how can you ignore his town meta? He has never done anything remotely like pulling a stunt like this. Not in CT, not in WLIIA and not in LIX. The other games I recall from him are Hero where he was scum and a couple of games where he was modkilled for inactivity. Please explain how meticulous Adam, who writes cautious cases deliberating different angles, suddenly throws caution to the wind and says "FUCK YOU, I'M PALMAR BITCHES". What part of Adam's town meta am I missing? But that's the thing - have you ever seen ANYTHING like this from scum Adam? No. It's at odds with his town mentality yes. However, it's even MORE at odds with his scum mentality. Why is Keir being a lurker, something Keir clearly knows is a stupid scumtell, still a scumtell? It is clearly at odds with both of his metas and you seem to think scum is more careful to not stand out like a sore thumb. Thing is, I don't think Kei is intentionally lurking or anything. A lot of his posts have suggested he's busy with work/whatever. His lurking doesn't seem intentional, thus the situation is very different from Adam's intentional DERP duel. So if Keir isn't intentionally lurking what do you find suspicious about his behaviour? Firstly, a major reason I'm voting Kei is because I'm pretty sure Adam is town. As for Kei himself, he hasn't given me any reason to think he's town at all. That and I didn't like his early interactions with Adam. His initial case made no sense to me, and Kei's constantly qualifying that he's not committing to his suspicions: Nothing else. I'm not entirely convinced Adam is scum, but I wanted some comments on it. I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my points about Adam and give some comments other than "lol bad". Tell me why. Maybe I'm just paranoid. I mean, at least he did take some kind of stance, and he's right, it was against the grain and I would normally give a few townie points for that. I'm just failing to see how, in this particular instance, his stance is beneficial to town, because I can't really predict any scenario in which he'll have to back it up. AFAIK, i never said "Okay guys, Adam 100% scum lets lynch him". I saw something, and mentioned it to the thread to get some feedback. Maybe my original post wasn't full fleshed out, but it made sense as I talked it out more, no? How does that make me scum? My point didn't change, I just explained it better. And so what, I was being non-committal towards the read. I demonstrably do that as town on day 1. What makes me scum this time, but not the others?
Thing is Kei, you've done barely anything this game. Does the above make you 100% scum? No, but it's a point against you.
At this point, I just need to see some activity/scum-hunting from you. If you're town, you have to prove it.
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On February 27 2013 04:16 Alderan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 04:10 yamato77 wrote:
The first lynch is the least informed lynch, and you want to make two of them. This. Oh and night actions could be valuable tonight. Oh and having a vote count gives more information. Oh and lynching both doesn't force either of them to make good arguments that could be helpful. Terrible play. Worse than Adam's duel imo.
Nights are valuable for scum. Expecting to rely on night actions is TERRIBLE play from town. Actually I'd argue threatening to lynch both of them makes for a FAR more effective hammer to force them both to start showing they're town.
If you say you're lynching Keirathi, you let Adam off the hook, and vice versa. I'm happy to say I'm lynching both of them unless they give me a reason to think they're town.
As for information from votecounts, voting for a double lynch gives you that same info. It's simply an extra option on the page. It's why I made my vote explicit, to set it apart from those who simply have no opinion.
It IS the least informed lynch, I agree on that with you, which is why we want to gather as much information as possible about it, but as long as both Adam and Keir look terrible, why not kill both of them?
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Anyways, lunch over. I'll be back in a few hours.
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I think that people are being blinded by the unexpectedness of Adam's action (specifically Yamato and Corazon). Yes, it was rash. But it was rash for both town and scum.
Plus, look at town sentiment at the time the duel was called. At the time of his action it felt like people wanted to see Keir hang. Then, you have Keir essentially egging Adam on, by saying things like Adam would never have to prove that he was serious about dueling people.
None of this changes the fact that until Keir was called out for his terrible night 0 play, he was one of the scummiest. He had claimed he was going to catch up with the thread and all he came back with was essentially an echo of marv.
I'm sticking with my own read on this one. Adam looked like he was someone who could be egged on from his first statement and I think Keir took advantage of that.
That being said, I'm not laying my vote down right now. We need all the discussion time we can get so let's not be too quick to hit that majority.
Hold it against me though, if I come back and vote Adam without any reasoning.
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snarfs how do you feel about double lynching?
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On February 27 2013 04:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
snarfs how do you feel about double lynching?
I don't want to kill Adam right now so I'm opposed. In general though, I could see the benefits of knowing two people's alignments.
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On February 27 2013 04:30 Acrofales wrote:
It IS the least informed lynch, I agree on that with you, which is why we want to gather as much information as possible about it, but as long as both Adam and Keir look terrible, why not kill both of them?
Because they DON'T both look terrible. They both look suspicious, but the problem with this whole duel is the fact that nobody wanted Adam in it except for Adam, and only two people wanted Keirathi in it. This is not a town-sanctioned duel, and so the scummiest people aren't in it. If we're ever going to double-lynch, let's have it be when town has actually put its two scummiest reads up for lynch, not when bad town goes after lurker town (this seems very possible).
When people are saying that Adam looks scummier than Keirathi, it's still all relative -- I'm not convinced he's scum, let alone that they're BOTH scum.
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snarfs you should go ahead and vote. we can start stalling for time once there is 6 votes for 1 player but for now we need to know who you're voting for
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Actually, the more I think of it, the more opposed I am. Why would we kill two people when almost assuredly one is not scum. We just need to be better town than to resort to double lynch.
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11589 Posts
On February 27 2013 04:55 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 04:30 Acrofales wrote:
It IS the least informed lynch, I agree on that with you, which is why we want to gather as much information as possible about it, but as long as both Adam and Keir look terrible, why not kill both of them? Because they DON'T both look terrible. They both look suspicious, but the problem with this whole duel is the fact that nobody wanted Adam in it except for Adam, and only two people wanted Keirathi in it. This is not a town-sanctioned duel, and so the scummiest people aren't in it. If we're ever going to double-lynch, let's have it be when town has actually put its two scummiest reads up for lynch, not when bad town goes after lurker town (this seems very possible). When people are saying that Adam looks scummier than Keirathi, it's still all relative -- I'm not convinced he's scum, let alone that they're BOTH scum.
This is excellent analysis of the situation. Just wanted to point that out.
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Consider this a vote for Keirathi. I'm not going to be pressured into pushing us closer to a lynch when we need the time. I don't particularly trust everyone else to "stall for time".
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On February 27 2013 04:05 Alderan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 03:36 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:19 Alderan wrote:On February 27 2013 03:16 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:11 thrawn2112 wrote:
i might switch to double lynch if some of the adam voters will too Err, it's instant majority, so unless you won't be around to hammer Keir if he approaches the 8 votes needed to lynch, you can safely make that statement by unvoting. Mind explaining how unconcerned you seemed about the duel? You were around at the time, so give us your story. Did the duel come out of the blue? It did for me as I was reading it. You seem pretty calm: On February 26 2013 16:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
##Vote: Keirathi
adam mind explaining why you had to call for the duel right now? Mind explaining your thought process at the time? This tunneling on the idea of the double lynch is incredibly scummy. Let it go, there's no way we're double lynching today, stop dissuading people from placing votes... I like the idea of a scumhunt challenge, just wish it was actually happening. Interesting. Why is it scummy to want to double lynch? Got off on a rant the first time I answered this question and accidentally closed the tab. Do you really need to explain to you why lynching twice on the first day is less effective than lynching once?
No. You need to explain why it's scummy to want it.
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EPT
