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Lolwut? Why all the vitriol? And your logic doesn't work at all. You assume that all of his finals appearances were just opportunities that were handed to him; he earned them, which is an achievement it itself. Also, at the end of 2011 MKP had lost three times in the GSL finals, so by your logic he had no future. He then immediately went on to win 2 MLGs... sounds like he had a future.
I've never seen anything from Symbol that leads me to believe he has the resilience of players like Marine King or Jangbi from broodwar. I didn't mean to sound vitriolic this is just a player that has disappointed me so many times and after watching Snute win a championship off if him it made this result so predictable. I predicted the finals would be one sided and Symbol would easily be overcome and have a non exciting match series. All of my predictions came true. I just have no faith left in symbol and the very act of watching his matches in a tournament feels like an exercise in futility since you already whats coming. I suppose you would call me cynical and tell me I don't know what his new HotS career will bring and he could even become a champion. You would even be right but I still wouldn't really believe it.
With all the other rising stars and Kespa's rise and their lack of experience in HotS I think we will see less of players like Symbol. That is just my sober assessment of what will come. I could totally be wrong though. God knows some of the things I thought about liquid hero a year ago would have made me look about as prophetic as Artosis.
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On March 11 2013 11:57 NicksonReyes wrote:Show nested quote +Symbol, having scouted Roro's infestation pit, knew that the Samsung Zerg was upgrading his pathogen glands and had infestors about to pop out. In a candidate for one of the best plays of the year, Symbol cleverly contaminated the infestation pit right before the upgrade finished, and so the infestors popped out without the extra energy. Soon after, Symbol went for a ling runby on Roro's fourth, killing it before it could be cancelled. Isn't Roro the one who contaminated Symbol's Infestation Pit?
Ya I'm pretty sure that was Roro who made that "play of the year."
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Roro is legitimately good, not to be compared with the likes of Sniper or Symbol. His GSL title is much deserved.
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On March 11 2013 12:07 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 09:40 Fischbacher wrote:
I honestly feel this final is being undersold.
Game one was pretty good, with the hilariously long Brood War and the great ling runby that essentially won RorO the game. Game two had a really awesome, nail-biting defence by RorO.
Certainly not the best GSL final, but it was in no way bad. I think recaps for SC2 reflects the fanbase, which are likely more casual and don't really care to read details. It was generally more geared towards hardcore fans before. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=271943#onehttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=186373#one (This set of battle reports in particular are some of the funniest I've ever read. Making some mundane games seem really funny when I rewatched the VODs)
I always feel like the BW write-ups where a lot better. Never really got into BW, but every time I read a battle report I just feel compelled to watch the games.
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The TL forum is being run by nazis. Nowhere else do you get banned for saying your opinion. If for example i say that ROOTCatz is a terrible player who hasn't done nearly anything playing the game i'll get warned or banned 
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 11 2013 12:29 UrsusRex wrote:Show nested quote +Lolwut? Why all the vitriol? And your logic doesn't work at all. You assume that all of his finals appearances were just opportunities that were handed to him; he earned them, which is an achievement it itself. Also, at the end of 2011 MKP had lost three times in the GSL finals, so by your logic he had no future. He then immediately went on to win 2 MLGs... sounds like he had a future. I've never seen anything from Symbol that leads me to believe he has the resilience of players like Marine King or Jangbi from broodwar. I didn't mean to sound vitriolic this is just a player that has disappointed me so many times and after watching Snute win a championship off if him it made this result so predictable. I predicted the finals would be one sided and Symbol would easily be overcome and have a non exciting match series. All of my predictions came true. I just have no faith left in symbol and the very act of watching his matches in a tournament feels like an exercise in futility since you already whats coming. I suppose you would call me cynical and tell me I don't know what his new HotS career will bring and he could even become a champion. You would even be right but I still wouldn't really believe it. With all the other rising stars and Kespa's rise and their lack of experience in HotS I think we will see less of players like Symbol. That is just my sober assessment of what will come. I could totally be wrong though. God knows some of the things I thought about liquid hero a year ago would have made me look about as prophetic as Artosis.
fair enough. I just feel that at some point his clutch team-league skills should make him come through in a finals. But I see your point.
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On March 11 2013 12:40 Nedved wrote:The TL forum is being run by nazis. Nowhere else do you get banned for saying your opinion. If for example i say that ROOTCatz is a terrible player who hasn't done nearly anything playing the game i'll get warned or banned
Saying your opinion won't get you banned. Martyring will.
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RorO has destroyed my anti team in BW, and fortunately I was smart enough to never put him on my anti team in SC2. He is legit now. Congrats to him, and it does make me very happy to see a current Kespa player win GSL.
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On March 11 2013 12:40 Nedved wrote:The TL forum is being run by nazis. Nowhere else do you get banned for saying your opinion. If for example i say that ROOTCatz is a terrible player who hasn't done nearly anything playing the game i'll get warned or banned
Godwin's law at page 4, not bad.
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On March 11 2013 12:40 Nedved wrote:The TL forum is being run by nazis. Nowhere else do you get banned for saying your opinion. If for example i say that ROOTCatz is a terrible player who hasn't done nearly anything playing the game i'll get warned or banned
You would probably get banned, because you're martyring.
And the rule on TL is no caster/player-bashing, so if your opinion is being disrespectful towards casters/players, then you deservedly get banned. There haven't even been any bans in this thread.
EDIT: and just saying, you don't technically have any "rights" on TL, if the mods don't like you or the way you post, they'll ban you, because "We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. But, this is a private site. We are not funded by any governments. This means we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness."".
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On March 11 2013 08:34 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 08:26 ShowTheLights wrote:
-.-'
not sure what to say...
congrats to roro but blah what a bad finals to end WoL
I wonder if Roro will be as forgotten as jjajki or Sniper.
I'm sure there are a lot of Khan fans out there but other than them.. Please. People keep saying "Oh man I've already forgotten about Sniper" yet are all to happy to tell us how often they forget about him. Also you assume instantly Roro will tank? Why? What in his play indicated he wasn't of a champion calibre besides any bias you might have against his race? No-one forgets GSL champions. You are already in the history books for winning it. Congrats Roro! I look forward to more great play from him.
Once a champion forever a champion
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On March 11 2013 08:34 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 08:26 ShowTheLights wrote:
-.-'
not sure what to say...
congrats to roro but blah what a bad finals to end WoL
I wonder if Roro will be as forgotten as jjajki or Sniper.
I'm sure there are a lot of Khan fans out there but other than them.. Please. People keep saying "Oh man I've already forgotten about Sniper" yet are all to happy to tell us how often they forget about him. Also you assume instantly Roro will tank? Why? What in his play indicated he wasn't of a champion calibre besides any bias you might have against his race? No-one forgets GSL champions. You are already in the history books for winning it. Congrats Roro! I look forward to more great play from him.
I agree.
Also the only reason people "forgot" about Sniper is the fact that the GSL finals happened at the same time as (but before the finals of) IPL5 "and" the World Championship (which wasn't a big deal since it was a show match but still).
Not only that, the GSL finals lead to the 2012 Blizzard Cup almost immediately. It was really a packed two months.
Not only that, Sniper is infamous for taking out fan favorites (so he does have a decent amount of anti-fans which like to downplay his achievements).
This negativity ZvZ bandwagon is appalling. I said this before in another thread but the ZvTs with Symbol vs Innovation and RorO vs Taeja were all bad. Had those series been the finals, people would just whine Zerg imba or something.
(The RorO vs Symbol series was refreshing IMO unlike the ZvTs we've seen a dozen times with Z rolling over T... now one of the Zs can roll over each other. We've seen way more ZvTs in WoL than ZvZs. ZvZs have a lot of potential is IMO, way better than PvP or PvZ.)
I actually can't wait for HotS now because everyone will complain about Terran being IMBA again (at least during the days of T is IMBA, no one was excessively using the "lol ZvZ" [or in this example, T being imba] as an excuse to hate on any player). (At first I dislike HotS bringing T imbalance whine back but it's better than "Patchzerg" or "lets hate on a player because they play Zerg". Again at least with T imba whining, people aren't really hating on any players.)
If this ZvZ was Life vs DRG or something (which would be a good storyline honestly, since they did have the dreamhack finals together) there would probably almost be no one complaining.
The ZvZ negativity seems like an excuse to hate on the players (specifically non-fan favorite players). I said this before (in sort of a joking fun manner but now I'm srs) but RorO could potentially be the Rain of Zerg. If Innovation was the Rain of Terran, does that make RorO the Rain of Zerg... <speculation> <speculation>?!!!111
Also anyone is a "Rain" if:
1. They're not TBLS or any big name from BW.
2. They're KeSPA
3. They come out of no where (like Rain) and basically own up when they first (or in RorO's case, the second) time they appear in GSL or any major tournament. (Speaking of that, funny thing is a lot of people forgot that Innovation made it to the Ro4 in GSL Season 5. Again, it's another case of people forgetting GSL Season 5 mostly because of how "crowded" the tournaments were at the time, with IPL happening at the same time and IPL's finals happening a day after the GSL finals at the same place.)
RorO could be a candidate for the next Rain here... (Also I know Rain himself hasn't been in dominating form for a while but he's still has time to make a comeback.)
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On March 11 2013 08:59 poisui wrote:
OSL and GSL both belong to Kespa, as expected. =)
The way it's supposed to be :D!
Nice write up btw.
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On March 11 2013 13:26 Goldfish wrote:
I actually can't wait for HotS now because everyone will complain about Terran being IMBA again (at least during the days of T is IMBA, no one was excessively using the "lol ZvZ" [or in this example, T being imba] as an excuse to hate on any player). (At first I dislike HotS bringing T imbalance whine back but it's better than "Patchzerg" or "lets hate on a player because they play Zerg". Again at least with T imba whining, people aren't really hating on any players.)
Heh, you actually make a good point. And I also liked TvT better than ZvZ, so all in all, if imbalance there must be, let it be Terran  .
Also, while I may favour Protoss overall, I hope we never see a Protoss era. Adun have mercy.
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I legitimately enjoyed watching this series. Normally ZvZ is a bore for me, but there was something about these games. Maybe it was the whole "end of WoL" thing, but I honestly loved seeing the amount of things that were going on in, for example, game 1, or watching the Nydus play on Whirlwind. Regardless, I enjoyed watching the games and think that this series was a good note to end Wings of Liberty on.
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On March 11 2013 13:36 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 13:26 Goldfish wrote:
I actually can't wait for HotS now because everyone will complain about Terran being IMBA again (at least during the days of T is IMBA, no one was excessively using the "lol ZvZ" [or in this example, T being imba] as an excuse to hate on any player). (At first I dislike HotS bringing T imbalance whine back but it's better than "Patchzerg" or "lets hate on a player because they play Zerg". Again at least with T imba whining, people aren't really hating on any players.) Heh, you actually make a good point. And I also liked TvT better than ZvZ, so all in all, if imbalance there must be, let it be Terran . Also, while I may favour Protoss overall, I hope we never see a Protoss era. Adun have mercy.
Is TvT really better? Because I remember a ton of complaints about TvT being a borefest back in the GomTvT days. I personally find marine/tank TvT to be similar to roach/infestor ZvZ in terms of watchability.
To me, all matchups are boring when you've seen enough of them, and interesting if you're watching for the first time in a while. ZvZ overload may have been short, but it's way too oversaturated due to the number of foreign zergs on the scene. There were never more than a couple of Ts or Ps in the foreign scene at any given time. But it's filled with zergs in the past year or so.
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Now I may be a Zerg player, but I found this final a fantastic show of great macro (G1), great response play (G2,5), great tactical play (G4,3), and a great demonstration about how the slightest of mistakes can kill you (G6)
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On March 11 2013 13:59 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 13:36 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On March 11 2013 13:26 Goldfish wrote:
I actually can't wait for HotS now because everyone will complain about Terran being IMBA again (at least during the days of T is IMBA, no one was excessively using the "lol ZvZ" [or in this example, T being imba] as an excuse to hate on any player). (At first I dislike HotS bringing T imbalance whine back but it's better than "Patchzerg" or "lets hate on a player because they play Zerg". Again at least with T imba whining, people aren't really hating on any players.) Heh, you actually make a good point. And I also liked TvT better than ZvZ, so all in all, if imbalance there must be, let it be Terran . Also, while I may favour Protoss overall, I hope we never see a Protoss era. Adun have mercy. Is TvT really better? Because I remember a ton of complaints about TvT being a borefest back in the GomTvT days. I personally find marine/tank TvT to be similar to roach/infestor ZvZ in terms of watchability. To me, all matchups are boring when you've seen enough of them, and interesting if you're watching for the first time in a while. ZvZ overload may have been short, but it's way too oversaturated due to the number of foreign zergs on the scene. There were never more than a couple of Ts or Ps in the foreign scene at any given time. But it's filled with zergs in the past year or so.
People will complain about everything. Not "anything". "everything".
Everyone's threshold for matchups or playstyles is different. I for example struggle to enjoy PvP because I can't get past the horror of it's 4gate, collosus wars or die state for the majority of WoL, yet I know a lot of people have been enjoying it a lot since then and we started getting a lot more interesting plays there. But my PvP threshold wasn't from quantity but quality. For all the ZvZ complaining I'm still nowhere near a quantity threshold. For every ZvZ I've still seen about 5x more TvZs.
P.S. I just finished watching the finals. They were pretty dam good ZvZ games. I don't think any of them were recommended "No". And that's even without fan favourite bias for a change.
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On March 11 2013 13:59 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 13:36 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On March 11 2013 13:26 Goldfish wrote:
I actually can't wait for HotS now because everyone will complain about Terran being IMBA again (at least during the days of T is IMBA, no one was excessively using the "lol ZvZ" [or in this example, T being imba] as an excuse to hate on any player). (At first I dislike HotS bringing T imbalance whine back but it's better than "Patchzerg" or "lets hate on a player because they play Zerg". Again at least with T imba whining, people aren't really hating on any players.) Heh, you actually make a good point. And I also liked TvT better than ZvZ, so all in all, if imbalance there must be, let it be Terran . Also, while I may favour Protoss overall, I hope we never see a Protoss era. Adun have mercy. Is TvT really better? Because I remember a ton of complaints about TvT being a borefest back in the GomTvT days. I personally find marine/tank TvT to be similar to roach/infestor ZvZ in terms of watchability.
TvT is isn't good. It's interesting. It's boring, but you learn a lot, and can see some interesting positional plays. It's just way too long. HotS should fix that a little, I hope.
I agree on protoss. At least ZvZ is exciting and not decided only by build order choice.
I don't think mirror matchups are the problem, really. TvP is my least favourite matchup :D
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The victory by a veritable "new kid on the block" shows that just because you're the bully on the block does not mean that it will remain your territory. All that aside, I actually hoped that Symbol would take the win. After that 3-0 deficit of Symbol I lost all hope of him coming back, but at least he showed some courage by making an honourable last stand.
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EPT
