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Jaedong vs Bisu Stats - Page 4
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
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Mobius
Canada1268 Posts
On September 15 2009 22:22 KinosJourney2 wrote: I think you have confused Bisu with Stork, Bisus best MU is PvZ. Uhh, Storks best MU is pvt no doubt... Bisu's best mu is PvZ, but since its zerg era, zerg favoured maps, with the zerg>protoss imbalancement, his PvP had highest win rate. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 16 2009 01:41 keV. wrote: Jaedong is a better series player. In a Bo1 I would say 50/50. In a BoX (where X > 1) JD 100%. I would argue that it would be more accurate to say Jaedong is a better Bo5 players. They're probably closely matched for games 1-3, but I feel like games 4 and 5 are where Jaedong always has the mental edge over his opponent (and conversely, where Bisu breaks down in the sets he loses). | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
On September 16 2009 01:48 TheYango wrote: I would argue that it would be more accurate to say Jaedong is a better Bo5 players. They're probably closely matched for games 1-3, but I feel like games 4 and 5 are where Jaedong always has the mental edge over his opponent (and conversely, where Bisu breaks down in the sets he loses). That seems fair. Agreed. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On September 16 2009 01:40 TheYango wrote: Nice way to choose a time duration that neatly encompasses all of Jaedong's titles and cuts out all of Bisu's. Oov won an OSL in the midst of Savior's reign. Clearly oov was still the dominant player of that time...? | ||
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Boundz(DarKo)
5311 Posts
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ForTheSwarm
United States556 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 16 2009 01:58 Mindcrime wrote: Oov won an OSL in the midst of Savior's reign. Clearly oov was still the dominant player of that time...? Never implied anything about who was dominant. Just pointing out that it's an extremely arbitrarily chosen time frame. If you want an indication of long-term performance, Bisu's other titles deserve to be in there. If you're looking at recent performance, two years is definitely too long to look at. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On September 16 2009 02:02 TheYango wrote: Never implied anything about who was dominant. Just pointing out that it's an extremely arbitrarily chosen time frame. If you want an indication of long-term performance, Bisu's other titles deserve to be in there. If you're looking at recent performance, two years is definitely too long to look at. So how long of a time period should we be looking at to judge recent performance? The last individual league season? The last two? Those actually make Bisu look worse than the time period I originally chose. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Also, if you just watch Bisu's games, it's clear he hasn't been playing as good as he used to. Maybe his PvP is amazing right now, but his PvT has always left something to be desired, and his PvZ just doesn't have the harass it used to (and neither does his PvT, come to think of it). Bisu just isn't as entertaining. I'm not a Jaedong fanboy by any means. I really like Bisu. But I know the difference between what I'm seeing and what I want to see. Although mind you, I hardly ever watch proleague (save the finals and a game here and there between players I like) so I'm missing a whole arena of games. My judgments are based on individual league performance. | ||
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Mah Buckit!
Finland474 Posts
RACISM FTW! | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32282 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9964/kanyedong.png) | ||
DivinO
United States4796 Posts
Meh, they're both good players. | ||
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Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
And you know what they say about statistics: It's like a thong: shows alot but not the important parts | ||
Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
I don't know if I'll ever get tired of this. | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
On September 16 2009 02:45 IntoTheWow wrote: ... Perfect. | ||
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Macavenger
United States1132 Posts
On September 15 2009 22:37 motbob wrote: Since we are looking at historical records, what Bisu's best MU is currently is pretty irrelevant. ...on another note, I've always thought that Jaedong's worst MU is ZvP, despite his stats. Just look at who has knocked him out in MSLs, OSLs, and GSLs in BoX matches: MBC Survivor 10th: 0-2 to  free[gm]2007 1st OGN Dual Tournament: 1-2 to Much2007 OGN StarChallege Season 1: 1-3 to Rock2008 Bacchus OSL: 1-2 to  Flash2008 Arena MSL: 0-3 to fOrGG (insert that famous map stats picture here  )2008 ClubDay MSL: 1-2 to free[gm]Gom Classic Season 2: 1-2 to TempestGom Classic Season 3: 0-3 to  EffOrt2009 Avalon MSL: 1-2 to Calm...he keeps losing to random Protosses. When he loses to other races in a BoX, their always top-tier. But Tempest? Rock? You're missing significant context here. Those first three losses you list are all very early in Jaedong's career, before his first OSL win against Stork. Prior to the EVER '07 finals, ZvP most definitely was Jaedong's worst matchup - in fact, you could say he was pretty much godawful at it. He was known at the time for absolutely fearsome ZvT, and IIRC his ZvZ was considered promising but the 70% win rate likely a fluke (turns out it was, just not in the direction people thought at the time). Stork was generally considered the favorite in those finals despite his weak PvZ because Jaedong had never really shown any ZvP capability. After the first game's failed all-in most people thought the series was going to be a terrible slaughter because Jaedong was clearly unprepared and outclassed. Hot Bid's Heir Apparent Final Edit from the end of 2007 does a good job explaining the situation at the time. We pretty much watched Jaedong learn ZvP during that match. So since Jaedong really became the Jaedong we know today, he's been knocked out of leagues twice by each race. That really says nothing, even if you consider counting the times he's been knocked out of leagues as a good metric for measuring matchups, which I would probably dispute. Honestly I think trying to come up with a weakest matchup for Jaedong is a pretty fruitless exercise to begin with. All three of his matchups are top 3 in the world at worst, and while his ZvZ is somewhat more dominant than the other two, I don't think there's much to choose between them. As for Bisu, his PvP didn't really evolve to its current state until a year ago or so. Back around the time I'm describing here, he was known and feared for his PvZ after killing Savior, and his other 2 matchups were S-class but nothing special beyond that. That's why you'll see a lot of people saying PvZ is Bisu's best matchup, even if it isn't strictly true right now - historically, over his entire career, it has been his best. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On September 16 2009 02:45 IntoTheWow wrote: ... lol okay this one was funny :p | ||
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