EPTwhy did Spag protect jampi.
was it because jampi is teammate
or because he was trying to setup jampi as teammate
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIV - Page 38
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
why did Spag protect jampi. was it because jampi is teammate or because he was trying to setup jampi as teammate | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
we should change to Spag sort out yourself/jampi on Day3. the problem is.. Sylencia. jampi has 3 votes now.. so to vote spag needs 4 votes to over take. Thus.. i can vote spag now.. so can omni.. the question is whether sylencia will join in time to do the +1 vote to make it 4. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
your welcome to comment why it would be jampi over you. for now.. im going to bed. like is aid before.. i will wake up 2hrs before and see the vote status quo. Will add my vote where needed. Night. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
My case on Mocsta I think Mocsta is an active scum rather than a passive one. And what I mean by that is that instead of trying to stay in the shadows, he is come aggressively forth, being confident not to slip. His main motive isn't to stay hidden, it is to cause caos while appearing as the most contributing person. He does a very good job of missleading town. I will now explain how his posts are crafted to help his agenda. His posts can basicly be split into five categories:
Mocsta starts the game with policy talk. Some more policy talk. Later, he comments on the power of a vote. That's it for posts solely on policy talk. Mocsta has some other posts were he touches on lynching policy, but overall he seems to avoid the subject. Talking about policy is something easy for mafia to do, so by avoiding it his "contributions" seem more of a town nature. More so than that, it gives him the opportunity to attack others because they are talking about policy. + Show Spoiler [Summaries] + The post count summaries I want to direct the attention in these to how he states that the intent of these is not to establish himself as pro town. He has another post where he states that his intention is not to appear as pro town. These just clutter the thread and make us subconsciously believe that Mocsta has contributed more signifigately than it seems. Later he contradicts himself saying this If you haven't read this post, I suggest if you are town please do. He mentions in the orginal post that he would like if it had no impact on our reads, and then goes and claims that this is his best contribution. Why would he claim something as his best contribution if he did not intend do give it as an contribution? Because he is scum trying to appear as town.http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389091¤tpage=14#269 I know its a long read, but, if I could have only one contribution to town for this game.. I would be satisfied by having posted this. + Show Spoiler [Accusations] + I will group the small accusations and Mocstas to cases (TeMiL and OmniEulogy) separately. + Show Spoiler [Small accusations] + In the beginning, Mocsta accuses cDgCorazon for not answearing his own question. Lol, Mocsta accusing someone for not answearing his own questions. Isn't this what he has been doing all game long? He accuses Spaghetticus for asking about the scum QT access. And raises his suspicions on zarepath. Mocsta doesn't give any reasoning for this accusation. Mocsta calling out StriX for not answearing his questions properly. He associates StriX flipping town with me and OmniEulogy being suspicious. Making as association case before the flip, weren't we instructed not to do this at the end of NMM XXXIII? Then he claims that Spaghetticus repeately links Mocstas name with scum. Looking through Spags filter, this isn't true. Mocsta says that cDgCorazon doesn't fully read his post. He notes that Sylencia's reasoning is based on his case on TeMiL and that Spaghetticus just happily accepts it when it comes from the mouth of someone else (other than Mocsta). Others have already said that Syl took Mocsta reasoning and went further with it. Mocsta attacks OmniEulogy, stating that he (Omni) is trying get an emotional response and saying that Toadesstern is a wise coach obviously, while pressuring Omni more. Even though Omni makes a fair point Mocsta doesn't bother answearing it, instantly passing it as scum behavior. He then accuses Spaghetticus with a point OmniEulogy made. Aka not contributing Mocsta then attacks Spaghetticus for policy reasons. Then he just votes for the lurkiest player. Voting on someone without even reasoning? Mocsta accuses zarepath for not contributing. All of these are easy accusations to do. There is no deeper thought behind most of these. They help Mocsta establish a protown image while making others appear as more suspicious. + Show Spoiler [Cases] + Analysed separately for clarity + Show Spoiler [TeMiL] + Mocstas case on TeMiL At the start, it seems as though Mocsta tries to make it acceptable that he doesn't post any analysis at all. Later on he even said that he had a slight scumread on Omni even before making this post. Even in his opening post he quotes cakepie to say that policy lynching is not an substitute for active scumhunting. Yet he still wants to kill TeMiL because he is not contributing, even thought Mocsta later say that he is 100% town. This is certainly suspicious. Going after the easy target, he would not have to fabricate lies to make his case good. + Show Spoiler [OmniEulogy] + Mocstas case on OmniEulogy cDgCorazon giving his opinion on it I will not repeat what Corazon said, so you should read that too. (1) Why doesn't Mocsta consider Omnis case on StriX as scumhunting? Omni gives out valid points against StriX, but he ignore this as a contributing early and later attacks Omni based on the case even though he himself said it was one of Omnis key posts. Contradicting yourself in the same post. Feels scummy.Policy talk from all is typically meaningless fluff at the start. You say you will actively scum hunt.. but what have you contributed actively? A vote on zarepath.. because he votes no-lynch early game. that is not active scum hunting. That is prejudice. I can vote 100 people between now and deadline. its the vote at deadline that matters. First sign you need to step up your game.. the question is whether town or scum motivation. (7) It is interesting how Mocsta sees Omni retracting his vote as scum, when he himself retracts his stance on Omni with even worse reasoning. His opinion on Omni changes even before he has taken his time to read the thread properly? If he didn't read the thread just what on earth made Mocsta change his opinion? Knowing Omni is town would be one and only mafia 100% that someone is town.Interesting. The justification is quite weak to remove the vote.. He has contributed? big whoop, this is a piss poor attempt to move onto another target. You are admitting here your actual vote justification was weak, or even just sheeping. Again, how does that help town win? Starts off copy/pasting my comments. Goes back into policy lynch talking.. Omni just quoted Mocsta a bit, and he hasn't even said that he waited a big post from StriX. And there is no policy talk, Omni just says that StriX mentioning zarepaths no-lynch policy is not a big contribution. Omni is not doing the policy talking, he is attacking StriX for talking policy. It seems as though Mocsta didn't even read Omnis post properly, or that he is trying to come up with arguments for his case, even when none exist. How is this town minded at all? It isn't, it is telltale scum behavior. Then finishes off with more policy talk. I assumed he realised the justification for the vote was weak, so decided to spruce it up with some policy justification. Omni is not using policy lynching as an argument anywhere in his case. What Omni actually states is that StriX being suspicious of zarepath because of the no-lynch and then backtracking on it, saying that he (StriX) doesn't consider the no-lynch so scummy anymore, is, in fact, scummy behavior. Intentianally missunderstanding someone is scummyAll in all, your case is weak. You twist Omnis words to fit your reasonig, and post the case late causing confusion, even though you had your suspicions for a while. This is really scummy. These cases of yours reek of scum mentality. First going after the easy target with TeMiL and then going after Omni hoping for a last minute confusion bandwagon. + Show Spoiler [Leading others] + I will split up the analysis and go through the posts adressing everyone separately. + Show Spoiler [Leading a single person] + Asking zarepath to give his thoughs on Spaghetticus. Asking me to pressure StriX. Suggesting zarepath to make a case on Sylencia or Omni. Pressuring Cora/Spag to make a case against Omni. Asking zare to decide who is scummier, TeMiL or Omni. Asking Sylencia to comment on Spags post for him. Asking Omni to comment on Spags post. Asking Spag to work on the the theory Syl provided. This isn't contributin in any way. Asking Syl to give his though on my logic on the Omni case. Asking someone to defend you against the reasonings of others is not town behavior. Asking Spag to basicly give a townread on zare. Basicly asking zare to to make a case on Spag. This post contributes nothing for town. Asking Omni to give his evidence on me. Again, zero contribution. Asking Syl to give his thoughts on zare. Asking others to vote for Spag first. What? Why is Mocsta not voting on Spag immediately? Him and Omni voting on Spag would be enough to lynch him. Why wait? Asking zare to make a case on me. Mocsta is trying to make others think for him. Asking others to do something for you is scummy. + Show Spoiler [Leading everyone] + The first one The second one The third one After these he makes this post, stating even himself that his aim is to guide us. Mocsta creates discussions, making him seem more of an townie, but in reality he is leading everyones thoughts. He is making everyone think for him while his actual contributions remains at a minimum. + Show Spoiler [Reasonigs] + These will be split into to categories: posts where Mocsta defends himself and posts where he reasons without someone asking for it. + Show Spoiler [Defenses] + Mocsta makes his stance on Corazon clear. His is placing his vote on Cora to fabricate giving pressure. It is easy for him to back of stating that he should not pay attention to previous games, but this one. He defends his ask questions but do not answear them-policy. A beatiful way to avoid Syls question while making it seem that just asking questions is giving his thoughs on everything. And says he is not going to comment on the zare/Syl conversation. How is this town oriented? Mocsta defends his vote on TeMiL. He defends his coming voteswitch. He defends presenting his case late. Mocsta defends his read on Omni. Then he defends his townread on StriX. Mocsta townread is based on giving dispensation to StriX, not on his actions. What? Mocsta can't give us a single action of StriXs with town motives and still considers him town? This is just an excuse for what he said earlier. And he defends his lack of analysis. Another post defending the Omni case. And yet another post defending the Omni case. Mocstas hint to changing his opinion on Omni just seems as a hindsight way of avoiding responsibility. And nowhere do I state that I am any good at analysing. It seems he is missinterpretetting this post in which I state that random accusations will lead us next to nowhere. Mocsta defending his vote on me while reasoning not to lynch TeMiL. Notice how he is still not giving his reasonings but letting others figure them out? This is not town play. And he does not address the case of a misslynch, which was the orginal point of Syl: not bringing us to a point were TeMiLs vote decides the game. He finally addresses Sylencias point of TeMiL being maybe scum while defending not lynching TeMiL. Still doesn't address if he is in the event of a misslynch okay with TeMiLs vote deciding the game. Because he is scum and this would actually benefit him. Mocsta defends himself against me pointing out his bad logic on his Omni case. Why the heck doesn't he bother to write down what is wrong with my reasoning? If there actually was something wrong with it, why not point it out? It is because he is trying to undermine my credibility in fear of the actual case. He defends not lynching TeMiL. He just theorises about random lynching while providing nothing new. Another post defending not lynching TeMiL. Again not giving his thoughs on whether he thinks it is okay to have TeMiLs vote decide the game. Mocsta defending not lynching TeMiL and his vote on me. In what basicly is a summary post. Mocsta defending his statement that town is winning. How can anyone think that town is winning? If we don't lynch scum now, it's LYLO the next day. Mocsta defending his various arguments. Then he defends Omni, without actually telling us why he considers him town. Notica also how he treats his case on Omni as two players misscommuncating. Even though most of Mocstas points do not stem from a dialog. After D1 until my vote on him, Mocsta is very defensive, not contributing much of anything else than his defenses. + Show Spoiler [Orginal reasonings] + Mocsta reason in advance his voteswitch. Mocsta giving his general musings. Basicly a summary post, where he states that Spag is his top read. If Spag is his top read why not vote for him? Or atleast provide a case? This is classic scummy behavior. Mocsta theorising associations. He has stated many times before that he doesn't want to make association cases. Yet what does he do now? As we can see he doesn't reason much if something isn't asked from him. Not giving information is scummy. + Show Spoiler [Very suspicios points not mentioned] + TL;DR: He is leading others while his contributions remain subpar. Not giving information is a huge scumtell and not voting for your top scum read while constantly changing it without reasonings is really scummy. If Mocsta doesn't flip scum, I'm utterly confused. On January 07 2013 14:31 jampidampi wrote: ##Vote: Mocsta I leave you with StriXs final post before his lynching: On January 05 2013 09:38 StriX wrote: Seems the fire is burning full flame. You're very good at baiting me into responding. I now believe the mafia pair to be Omni + Mocsta. Mocsta until this point has been baiting jampidampi into me and is using this vote to clear himself. Mocsta also very cleverly uses this out of character last minute post case on OmniEulogy to clear himself after my flip. It becomes even more suspicious when I mention IF mocsta doesn't die as if I am the one who chooses (mia cupla). Be very careful of the leading nature of Mocsta's Question time. OmniEulogy is very good at rehashing made points. That is all. | ||
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
As I will not be here during the deadline this may very well be my last post. If that is the case, I hope you have good time with the rest of the game and really hope you lynch scum on D3. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
I do have a few problems with your case "Mocsta is trying to make others think for him. Asking others to do something for you is scummy." On January 05 2013 19:27 jampidampi wrote: @Mocsta Do you still think Omni is scum? If you do, please pressure him more. On January 04 2013 22:26 jampidampi wrote: @StriX I have yet to see an action of yours that doesn't fall into the category of arguably scum or town. That is to say every action of yours could have scum or town motives behind them. In my mind you are the scummiest player so the vote stays. but in his case you say "Overall, he has no contributions to speak of and some of his plays are scummy." Overall I think I would find your case more compelling if it weren't riddled with lies or hypocrisy. If what you say, and what I fear is true, and Mocsta is scum, this case has not convinced me. The only thing that might save you today from my vote is if Mocsta believes his read on Spag is strong enough to justify changing the vote. Otherwise my vote will be staying on you. One other thing that might save you is if you can claim JK and prove that you were the one who RB'd me. (I assume it was town as mafia RB just does NOT make sense on me.) | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
I was deliberately excluding Zare, not Jamp. I would happily vote for Jamp but not Zare. My vote will remain on TeMiL for survival reasons. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
was expecting more activity and potentially vote changes. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On January 08 2013 06:20 Spaghetticus wrote: I was deliberately excluding Zare, not Jamp. I would happily vote for Jamp but not Zare. With his final words; Spag leaves us with WIFOM. Now he says he was deliberately excluding zarepath; yet when he left prior.. he writes this.. On January 08 2013 01:59 Spaghetticus wrote: I am going to bed. My preferred candidates are Omni, Zare, and TeMiL, and I will settle for any of them. I'll try and get up in three hours so I can influence the lynch if it is not going the way I intend. I have certain changes to my plan if particular events happen. There is no way a townie would act this way when under the gun; (i.e. confuse/complicate matters further) Therefore Spag is now/was a firmer mafia than the remaining null players. I suggest to use zarepath vote and bandwagon Spag. ##unvote ##vote: Spaghetticus | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On January 08 2013 06:04 OmniEulogy wrote: He is playing the type of scum game I would attempt. At the same time he is playing the town game I would have liked to if I wasn't so passive-aggressive. I wouldn't try to copy my playstyle. The feedback Im getting in PMs is constantly slamming me.. (This game and last.) Perhaps its a style that only works in smaller environments. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
Town still has a chance with my death, but you are going to have to have to heed my words, and take the risks, as now town is truly behind. I am cop. I checked Zarepath, and he was clean. My posturing around his lynch was just that. I did not want to have to explain why I was not voting for this incredibly scummy town. Mocsta and Sylencia \were/ clean. That Mocsta tried to switch wagon on to me as soon as someone else decided it was a good idea makes me wonder. Really at this point I think the best play is to admit that if he’s scum, he’s simply a better player and let him win. If he is not scum then all the suspicion is damaging town, and we sort of need to stick to our scummier players. You will not catch Mocsta if he is scum, take the risk and assume he’s town, YOU NEED TO TAKE RISKS. Edit before post: the fact that Mocsta has not realised that taking votes off of Jampi and putting them on me means he’s not trying too hard to change the vote from Jamp. Either he’s incredibly confident he can finish me tomorrow, he wants me around to soak up an NK so his continued existence is not so conspicuous, or he is town with a fairly even read between me and Jamp. I want to believe the third option for the reasons above (any attempt to land a Mocstawhale will be unsuccesful, and letting the better man win if he’s scum). That leaves four out of seven players confirmed town (including myself). After this lynch, so long as I don’t die and I can convince you, at worst it will be four confirmed town vs two scum, which is an easy win. - Spag - Zarepath - Mocsta - Sylencia - OmniEulogy - TeMiL - JampiDampi On top of this, Omni waiting for backup before continuing further gives a town read. If he were scum he’d know he could lead the charge on me without repercussion, and probably seal my fate. This means Jamp and TiMeL as scum team, which actually makes a lot of sense considering how much of our hunting has stuck. The two lurkiest players are scum letting us mob ourselves to death. This still puts Omni in third most scummy position, but killing the other two before him is important. I'll add that because I am cop, this narrows down the possible starting scenarios to either:- one goon + one roleblocker vs Jailkeeper and five VT or two goons vs one cop and six VT In the latter scenario Omni is lying, so if a JK claims we can rule out the possibility of him lying and jail the remaining person, having ruled out the biggest negative read on Omni. You need to do serious endgame turn math before playing this hand though, as you don't want to die before setting the gambit in motion. This game is close, so your actions will be vital. Hope that Syl and Mocsta are town and stop playing around the possibility of them being scum, otherwise town stand zero chance. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
Nobody can counter claim cop without actually being scum. If anyone does, lynch me and then them. This over-rides any other read I've made, as I'm confident it won't come to fruition. That would be some bold scum that. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
##vote:JampiDampi | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
jampidampi (3): OmniEulogy, Sylencia, Spaghetticus Mocsta (1): jampidampi Spaghetticus (2): zarepath, Mocsta Not voting (1): TeMiL jampidampi is set to by lynched! The deadline is in ~1.5 hours. | ||
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