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On February 26 2013 12:42 randombum wrote:
The main idea behind my plan is that the mayor is doomed anyways, might as well use it to try to lynch mafia.
Agreed. Until I see a better plan: I am going to vote for someone who is going to lynch my top scum read.
My top scum read is still formulating: but I am going to look specifically at players that came in at the start, chipped in a little to blend and then fucked off without actually contributing a thought.
Even if a mafia is present among the early contributors (its been like 20-30 pages in <4hrs) its going to be a crapshoot to identify scum out of that group (other than Prome and perhaps WoS who are under heat)
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From On February 26 2013 09:13 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 09:11 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 26 2013 09:09 Toadesstern wrote:okay actually screw that, I checked it. It's not pretty much exactly word for word, it IS word for word copy & paste. So it's not bullshit but supposed to be funny bullshit. Makes it decent and funny. From LIX: click me##unvote No shit Sherlock, thanks for admitting the humour in this. Vivax got it. Funny but my platform is still lynching you. Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 09:11 JungleJorge wrote:On February 26 2013 09:05 Wade Fell wrote:
Make me the mayor. I'm a smurf, but I'll offer you a platform that should definitely convince you that your vote is best used to elect me. My platform:
1) Lynching MilkSuckler. Fuck that guy.
2) I will use my vote aggressively to push town agenda throughout the game. I am not afraid to write cases and lay down my vote. I am a serious person.
Now before you flame me, let me turn you around with this question: do you believe milksuckler had that post prepared before the game started? of course he did. Everything about that screams "pre-prepared post" which is fine if he's town but he wrote that when he didn't know his alignment. He could quite easily be scum.
Don't trust him. Lynch Milksuckler.
##vote Wade Fell I believe you are right in both your assumptions, that milksuckler had that post prepared and that he could be scum. I also believe every other player may also be scum. Does milksuckler having a prepared post make him more likely scum? How so? If not why does he stand out to you as to being the best lynch? On February 26 2013 09:06 Wade Fell wrote:On February 26 2013 09:04 JungleJorge wrote:
Mayor seems pretty irrelevant. I suggest we do day one as if there was no mayor, and in the end people vote for the towniest looking out of those who want to lynch your main suspect. What do you guys think? This is literally a terrible idea Would you care to expand on that? I'm trying to decide between you trying to bring in some activity or trying to get into my invisible poster list. If you don't already understand why I said that based on my posts, there's nothing I can do to help you.
To
On February 26 2013 09:22 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 09:19 layabout wrote:lets kill wade for this: On February 26 2013 09:08 Wade Fell wrote:
I'm sorry there's a possibility you are a newer player, so I will explain thoroughly: The mayor has two votes, and the runner-up for mayor gains a power that's basically only useful to mafia. We can't just go voting townreads. We have to have people state clearly why they are voting who they are voting for, and potential mayoral candidates must clearly outline who they will use the lynch on and why. Anything less is bad.
Yes, ideally you vote in the towniest player as mayor, but someone can be townie and useless. Mayor determines today's lynch. The idea that Mayor is irrelevant is one you should cast out of your mind as soon as possible. On the basis that it promotes a mafia agenda. The most important thing about the election is to get town into the two roles. Do you disagree with the paragraphs overall, or are you just cherrypicking a single sentence? Because, after all, I'm calling for people to explain their votes and mayoral candidates to explain who they're lynching in addition to people voting townreads. I know you're a smart guy, layabout, so you're not misreading me here. You're intentionally misrepresenting my claims. Why are you doing so?
To omgus
On February 26 2013 09:28 Wade Fell wrote:
My new platform is killing Layabout
Read his posts
hes scum
I've read wade's posts and he's scum. You should read them too.
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How did I get puzzle pieces in there!
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On February 26 2013 12:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 12:35 randombum wrote:On February 26 2013 12:30 The Macho Man wrote:On February 26 2013 12:29 randombum wrote:
Well obviously lynching scum is good. But the idea is we can use it to gain a lot of information that simply elected a town mayor who is likely to die does not. why are we trying to get information instead of lynching scum? Why are you treating gathering information and lynching scum as mutually exclusive. This plan involves lynching the scum target and putting another in the spotlight. I could get it if you said something like "this plan would never work because...." or something like that, but to simply dismiss it because gathering information is bad? no one cares about or likes your plan so tell us who we should lynch or who you think the mayor should be. if you want to have a scum mayor, that's essentially the same question right?
Honestly, I'm not good enough to figure out mafia day one based purely off what people have posted. That's partly why I find a plan which is designed get as much information as possible so appealing.
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Milk Suckler: Issues with promethelax D1
- RNG implementation
- RNG discussion
- Constant buddying
- 180' stance shifts
- Misc
===============
RNG implementation
(1) Conjecture: I have PM correspondance with prome (pre-LX) that state explicitly he is against RNG as it is both anti-town and stupid play.
(2) Track History: Both Nomination & NMM37 contained proponents of RNG. They were both scum. Though this does not guarantee Prome as scum; it does suggest scum are more willing to run with it than town.
(3) Implementation; There was zero discussion on how to guarantee randomness. Prome provides no controls to provide validity for random selection, which mimics the attitude Djodref espoused when bringing RNG to the fore - he was scum.
This is in complete contrast to pre-game NMM37 where several methods were discussed in detail.
TL;DR
Though the above are not direct scum tells independently. Combined they corroborate a mindset only compatible from scum.
RNG discussion
(1) Outcome: Mentions the RNG play didn't generate the discussion he wanted. Yet responds to people with "pro-town gems" like: "you should be able to see why. Assuming you don't suck". There is no effort in his filter to prompt further discourse; and when others critically query him, he immediately shuts them down with insults.
(2) The plan: Provides details of the RNG plan to unveil scum - because only scum would support RNG. Ironically scum proponent: Djodref, took a similar stance in Nomination mafia. This is a very convenient stance any RNG proponent can outline; without dispute. The real question is whether prome went out of his way to facilitate discussion and identify RNG supporters. The short answer is: no"
TL;DR
Prome identifies "pro-town" reasons to justify his support for RNG. Yet his filter suggests the contrary: i.e. he is actively shutting down any RNG discourse
Constant buddying
(1) Vivax: Goes out of his way to say how good his meta read on Vivax is, and how Marv caught him. Great.. is Marv even in this game? Is he Marv?
(2) WoS: Declares how super towny WoS is and how he should be pardoner; if prome is as pro-town as he says he can be, why isnt he running for pardoner (if mayor isnt getting traction)
(3) VE: Votes VE for mayor out of arguably very limited alignment indicative posts.
(4) Grush: Comments multiple times on STARSENSES. One comment would have been enough to carry point across. Instead dedicates half a page to this discussion which is ultimately pointless.
TL;DR
So far prome is tickling a lot of "town-proclaimed" nuts; with little justification. Maybe meta reads count, but a game 4hrs in is too early to give out hard meta reads.
180' stance shifts
(1) WoS; Starts off disliking WoS to weak justification. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399294¤tpage=23#445It was obvious WoS was pointing out something he was directly involved with last game. Yet prome chooses to nitpick and and hate on the guy who was so bad in NMM37 someone made a fake case about him.... He then proceeds to do a complete stance flip and declares him super townie and that he should be pardoner. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399294¤tpage=28#553Quite a migration. You can get reads wrong, but since when do you jump from leaning/probably scum to confirmed town without assistance from blues. Further, the post itself definitely was not enough to declare someone "confirmed"/supertownie. This is quite an overreaction from prome. (2) RNG: You can include RNG as a sudden shift as it lost momentum. The whole play read like a farce with zero commitment. TL;DRprome starts picking on easy prey but instead of even considering a "bad townie" mentality, he goes straight to "I'll lynch WoS"
Misc
(1) Pro-Town?: prome is a guy who prides himself on being pro-town and encouraging people to participate: yet has default to behavioural posts such as: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399294¤tpage=26#510"You could always share without being asked. Or are you scum?" As a townie this post serves to cock-block the recipient and promote a negative atmosphere (something town prome is vehemently against). As a scummer this post serves to look like scum hunting (by casting doubts on others AND mentioning the word scum AND diverting attention away from the speaker) I actually used this exact line in my last scum game to great effect. It gives off the added appearance of taking a stance.. but actually still sits in the middle. (2) Wade Fell read: his wade fell read is pretty meek. Granted its early game and not much content to produce detailed analysis. But if that is the case, why bother to provide the read in the first place? Its another contribution without contributing. (3) WoS reversal: prome went from hate to <3 on WoS here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399294¤tpage=28#553- Someone already debunked the activity (WoS was absent for a majority of Day1) - The post itself reads forced; even though it is a paragraph each line is essentially an independent point. - Further the post carries a large amount of sarcasm (e.g. /golfclap) something that WoS has not introduced anywhere else in his filter. How can prome say this guy is the towniest mudafarker out there based on this one post. TL;DRprome is not contributing. Many of this stances and statements are based on a quick-sand foundation.
Summary
Town prome is an advocate of establishing a pro-town atmosphere. So far his actions have actively hindered town discussion by throwing out statements based on fallacy and heavy assumptions.
His RNG behaviour is classic scum mentality; and I believe if a townie ever pushed for RNG it would be performed with a lot more transparency.
He is purporting being able to give meta reads on players as justification to keep them in the game; yet when can not provide deep analysis of the reads he chooses to elucidate.
Though reads are subject to change Day1 (rapidly); prome has chosen meaningless points to base his stance shifts on. There is a distinct lack of conviction behind the thought process.
Lynch: Promethelax
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On February 26 2013 13:19 randombum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 12:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 26 2013 12:35 randombum wrote:On February 26 2013 12:30 The Macho Man wrote:On February 26 2013 12:29 randombum wrote:
Well obviously lynching scum is good. But the idea is we can use it to gain a lot of information that simply elected a town mayor who is likely to die does not. why are we trying to get information instead of lynching scum? Why are you treating gathering information and lynching scum as mutually exclusive. This plan involves lynching the scum target and putting another in the spotlight. I could get it if you said something like "this plan would never work because...." or something like that, but to simply dismiss it because gathering information is bad? no one cares about or likes your plan so tell us who we should lynch or who you think the mayor should be. if you want to have a scum mayor, that's essentially the same question right? Honestly, I'm not good enough to figure out mafia day one based purely off what people have posted. That's partly why I find a plan which is designed get as much information as possible so appealing.
Electing someone mayor that you think is scum doesn't give you any information. Making that decision depends on the fact that you can figure out mafia on day one since you would need to do that anyway to elect a scum mayor. You're not making sense to me.
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On February 26 2013 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 13:19 randombum wrote:On February 26 2013 12:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 26 2013 12:35 randombum wrote:On February 26 2013 12:30 The Macho Man wrote:On February 26 2013 12:29 randombum wrote:
Well obviously lynching scum is good. But the idea is we can use it to gain a lot of information that simply elected a town mayor who is likely to die does not. why are we trying to get information instead of lynching scum? Why are you treating gathering information and lynching scum as mutually exclusive. This plan involves lynching the scum target and putting another in the spotlight. I could get it if you said something like "this plan would never work because...." or something like that, but to simply dismiss it because gathering information is bad? no one cares about or likes your plan so tell us who we should lynch or who you think the mayor should be. if you want to have a scum mayor, that's essentially the same question right? Honestly, I'm not good enough to figure out mafia day one based purely off what people have posted. That's partly why I find a plan which is designed get as much information as possible so appealing. Electing someone mayor that you think is scum doesn't give you any information. Making that decision depends on the fact that you can figure out mafia on day one since you would need to do that anyway to elect a scum mayor. You're not making sense to me.
And people thought my hypothetical scum-geript-mayor-gambit idea was ludicrous. A lynch for randombum is a vote from me.
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On February 26 2013 12:48 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 12:42 randombum wrote:
The main idea behind my plan is that the mayor is doomed anyways, might as well use it to try to lynch mafia. Agreed. Until I see a better plan: I am going to vote for someone who is going to lynch my top scum read. My top scum read is still formulating: but I am going to look specifically at players that came in at the start, chipped in a little to blend and then fucked off without actually contributing a thought. Even if a mafia is present among the early contributors (its been like 20-30 pages in <4hrs) its going to be a crapshoot to identify scum out of that group (other than Prome and perhaps WoS who are under heat)
Who cares, just make a case if you're going to make a case. Why are you coming in here to announce that you're not confident? Do you want a way out if you can't contribute anything good? Do you have a scumread that I didn't come up with, or anything to contribute? I can't believe that you could write off 20-30 pages of discussion as a crapshoot. Day 1 is harder than Day 2 and it's expected that town will mislynch Day 1, we all know that. There's no sense in pointing it out as an excuse to not try.
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For the record I am not against the concept of a Prome or Vivax lynch so if randombum isn't on the table for one of today's candidates I can wait til D2 to vote him.
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@Chez sanity is making a come-back today?
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On February 26 2013 14:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 12:48 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 26 2013 12:42 randombum wrote:
The main idea behind my plan is that the mayor is doomed anyways, might as well use it to try to lynch mafia. Agreed. Until I see a better plan: I am going to vote for someone who is going to lynch my top scum read. My top scum read is still formulating: but I am going to look specifically at players that came in at the start, chipped in a little to blend and then fucked off without actually contributing a thought. Even if a mafia is present among the early contributors (its been like 20-30 pages in <4hrs) its going to be a crapshoot to identify scum out of that group (other than Prome and perhaps WoS who are under heat) Who cares, just make a case if you're going to make a case. Why are you coming in here to announce that you're not confident? Do you want a way out if you can't contribute anything good? Do you have a scumread that I didn't come up with, or anything to contribute? I can't believe that you could write off 20-30 pages of discussion as a crapshoot. Day 1 is harder than Day 2 and it's expected that town will mislynch Day 1, we all know that. There's no sense in pointing it out as an excuse to not try.
You are misinterpreting the post.
I don't have a problem discussing this further with you: but your tone is over the top and comes across more as a drill sergeant spitting in my face.
That aside, the post was more so highlighting I intended to vote a mayor who will lynch my top scum read as opposed to all this pardoner bullshit.
The extra stuff was added there because I felt it was useful: not everyone has 10k posts under their name Dr.
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On February 26 2013 14:01 ObviousOne wrote:
For the record I am not against the concept of a Prome or Vivax lynch so if randombum isn't on the table for one of today's candidates I can wait til D2 to vote him.
How about some feedback on what I wrote.
You agree or disagree.
Do you think I am grasping at straws, or is the logic valid?
Critique me and prove that your shadowing of VE paid off.
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On February 26 2013 14:11 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 14:01 ObviousOne wrote:
For the record I am not against the concept of a Prome or Vivax lynch so if randombum isn't on the table for one of today's candidates I can wait til D2 to vote him. How about some feedback on what I wrote. You agree or disagree. Do you think I am grasping at straws, or is the logic valid? Critique me and prove that your shadowing of VE paid off.
Can I do it when I wake up or do I have to do it now?
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Answering for you, I'll do it tomorrow.
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Why are you asking me for permission. I am not your mayor.
Your actions are YOUR responsibility.
But mine (and others) to judge 
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I figure anything I try to write just before bed will come out better after sleep.
FWIW I wasn't seriously asking for your permission. That shit was me asking me lol.
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I agree with many of your points sir.
I'm trying to decide if the cessation of the RNG discussion (BY Prom) can be interpreted as town-motivated. If, as he claims, the discussion didn't go the direction he'd hoped, I can see a town Prom trying to steer it back away.
The problem is that he never really explained in what way the discussion didn't work out the way he'd wanted, so I can't be sure.
What I really didn't like was his suggestion that we put grush/WoS into office simply because from his perspective they're "obviously town" or whatever.\ Like he's just assuming that the optimal play is to fill the positions with most likely townies rather than considering the relative strength of the roles...which is okay I guess but he hasn't made that objective explicit in his posting. For that reason it seems scum-motivated to me.
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On February 26 2013 14:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
What I really didn't like was his suggestion that we put grush/WoS into office simply because from his perspective they're "obviously town" or whatever.\ Like he's just assuming that the optimal play is to fill the positions with most likely townies rather than considering the relative strength of the roles...which is okay I guess but he hasn't made that objective explicit in his posting. For that reason it seems scum-motivated to me.
Noted, I agree - you can not attribute wanting to put in "confirmed town" into the role as scummy - as not enough information (conveniently) to ascertain motive.
However, we can query whether his "confirmed town" reads carry conviction and due diligence.
For example: He clearly said WoS >> Vivax. Why is Vivax even close to a (implied) town read based on what has been presented?
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That's not the question you should be asking, the question you should be asking is what the intention of having a discussion over RNG anyway and how could it possibly be helpful to town?
On February 26 2013 14:10 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 14:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 26 2013 12:48 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 26 2013 12:42 randombum wrote:
The main idea behind my plan is that the mayor is doomed anyways, might as well use it to try to lynch mafia. Agreed. Until I see a better plan: I am going to vote for someone who is going to lynch my top scum read. My top scum read is still formulating: but I am going to look specifically at players that came in at the start, chipped in a little to blend and then fucked off without actually contributing a thought. Even if a mafia is present among the early contributors (its been like 20-30 pages in <4hrs) its going to be a crapshoot to identify scum out of that group (other than Prome and perhaps WoS who are under heat) Who cares, just make a case if you're going to make a case. Why are you coming in here to announce that you're not confident? Do you want a way out if you can't contribute anything good? Do you have a scumread that I didn't come up with, or anything to contribute? I can't believe that you could write off 20-30 pages of discussion as a crapshoot. Day 1 is harder than Day 2 and it's expected that town will mislynch Day 1, we all know that. There's no sense in pointing it out as an excuse to not try. You are misinterpreting the post. I don't have a problem discussing this further with you: but your tone is over the top and comes across more as a drill sergeant spitting in my face. That aside, the post was more so highlighting I intended to vote a mayor who will lynch my top scum read as opposed to all this pardoner bullshit. The extra stuff was added there because I felt it was useful: not everyone has 10k posts under their name Dr.
Probably, sorry for being too aggressive but what is the point of making an announcement like that? It makes you sound unsure, Day 1 is difficult for everybody but letting that idea hang over your head is bad for town. The fact that Prom is not responding at all to any pressure on him is really troubling to me. The only reason I can think of is either supreme arrogance or mafia stalling/hoping that my case would blow over.
If you were town and a vet came out attacking you would you ignore it to instead talk about how grush57 is a townie because of an extremely specific meta read? How on earth is that helpful or more worth arguing over than your own innocence? Why no OMGUS?
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EPT
