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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On October 15 2011 21:01 Arctocod wrote:
Hello, I am Arctocod.
Here are my observations.
With no disrespect to Greymist, he is not a veteran and has yet to show himself to be excellent at Mafia. I find it extremely weird that anyone is supporting him into office, because there's nothing more dangerous to the mafia than a very good player who cannot be killed.
This is something I'd expect experienced players to recognize. The fact that this is being ignored and a newbie is being voted into position is simply based on fear of what if either Radfield or Mig is scum.
Here is something interesting.
I think we can all agree that the trio of Syllogism, Mig and Sandroba is composed of some of the best players in this game. It is highly unlikely they'd support each other so openly if they were on the same scumteam, not to mention the possibility of those three friends getting mixed up in one team is very slim.
So this means that at least 1-2 of them are pushing the Mig candidacy with honest intentions. After having spoken extensively with all of them I am convinced Syllogism is town, and I think Mig is town. Sandroba is a bit more shady, but he is pushing something logical.
I do not mind people not agreeing about the conclusion that Mig is the best choice, I do however really not want a new player voted into office, that's directly pushing mafia agenda as the best way for mafia to deal with a strong town double voter is to make sure the position is badly manned.
I want to iterate this: The second best choice for any mafia family after putting one of their own into position, is to put a weak player into position.
I am especially surprised to see Foolishness cast his vote away like that. Someone who is as capable as he is at this game, someone who can tell scum from town with real ease, should definitely share his reads and explain to us why we should be voting the same way as he does.
I fully agree with Arcto here. I even agree with players that Greymist is possibly town. But the main benefit that the elected roles confer is NOT the powers, it is the protection.
Fact is, there is relatively little danger of having scum in the elected roles until the extreme late game(unless they get hero/vet, but that is unlikely). The main downside of voting in scum is that you lose the opportunity to protect a strong townie. NOT that you possibly confer a power onto scum.
As long as the elected roles(particularly pardoner) are not allowed to reach the endgame, the best play is to vote in strong townies. If they are confirmed town in the meantime, even better.
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in xlv wbg had aweful scumreads everyday :D
sorry but i have to agree with radfield there. you should slow it down a little. noone will listen to you if you spam like that. in this game, this playstyle of massive talking doesnt even confirm you as townie if you're right with your accusations. you could very well be a member of a opponent scumteam.
seriously, noone knows 100% sure that mig or rad are town. its a decision based on meta. i didn't vote mig because i think hes more likely town than rad. i vote him because i know him. at this point of the game given a 43% scumrate noone is confirmed by any mean!
we have no influence. All we can do and in my opinion we have to do is voting a mayor that is active and experienced.
if he's scum, we have to control him and we can control him. worst case is an inactive inexperienced and therefor a useless mayor.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I will be gone today from ~1:30 - 11:15 KST(about 45 min before the lynch).
Unfortunately this is the most important time to push my candidacy, but it can't be helped. I will try to answer PMs from work, and if it's slow I may be able to post in thread.
I should be back in plenty of time to discuss the lynch, and to adjust if necessary.
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You probably shouldn't talk about XLV since it's not finished yet.
On October 15 2011 16:33 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 16:15 Scamp wrote:
Oh sweet. In PMs he's town. Yes that's convincing.
Greymist what did WBG PM you about? Basically the mayoral race, current scumreads, the like In fact, your name came up once or twice, namely regarding this post: Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 11:49 Scamp wrote:
Jimbo is exactly right. Luckily there's not much time left so everyone's prolly sent in their picks already.
The reality is that there are 12 mafia and 16 townies. That is an absurdly ridiculous ratio. If I were mafia I'd take whatever kills as much as possible and just start massacring everything.
The only way the town can win is if the mafia shoot each other. If the mafia families suck then the town is screwed. (Actually, the last multiple-mafia-family game I was in ended in a tie thanks to late modkills and my medical prowess.)
I really hope the discussion caused mafia members to try to take investigative roles. I refuse to believe i am the only one who receives creeps from this post. instead of talking about what the town needs to do, you basically say "well, I guess we just sit back and pray we don't die boys, oh and this is how scum should play." How can a player who is supposed to play from a pro town perspective post something that is so anti-town in every way imaginable? I have yet to see such a defeatist attitude in any post in the thread to date. In fact all of your posts share a similar feel to them. In light of this do you have any original thoughts regarding the state of the game?
Actually, I think you're the only one who got the creeps from my post. Maybe WBG too, I dunno.
Why? Because you're quoting it and removing all the context. I was explaining how a lot of the plans about drafting roles were coming from people who had the wrong idea about the game.
I find it odd that you ask me for original ideas because you're the one running for mayor and you never have any.
But here, I'll throw you a bone. Why don't you look at the people who insisted on having people claim their numbers and then did nothing with the information at all?
On October 15 2011 16:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Scamp, let me ask you this:
why are you never in IRC?
I don't have IRC.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On October 16 2011 00:00 Scamp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 16:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Scamp, let me ask you this:
why are you never in IRC? I don't have IRC.
You can access it through a web browser:
http://webchat.quakenet.org/
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Kita, since your here. What are your thoughts on the game. Mayor? Lynch? etc
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
At this point, Mig probably has my vote. My conversation with him gave me strong strongest pro-town feeling out of all the candidates. The fact that so many people have said they have a town read on him, yet at the current moment wouldn't be elected is strange. All the Greymist votes came quite out of nowhere. I haven't talked with him in private yet and his posts in the thread give me a null read. I'd like if the people voting for him would explain their reasons. For somebody who claimed inventor in the thread, Meapak isn't campaigning very hard to get elected. I haven't really heard enough from Wiggles or Kenpachi to consider them. Jimbo has been showing signs of scumhunting, so I might consider him. I'd like to think you are town, but so far its been a lot of planning and promises, rather than actual scumhunting.
As for the lynch, just about every person I've spoken to has brought up chaoser. I tend to agree. He has put little effort into accusing people and is running a mayor campaign based on past performance, rather than trying to prove to us that he is town.
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Radfield, If you are going to quote part of the conversation, why not quote the whole thing?
Full conversation, in order. (Top to bottom)
Radfield
The main reason I think you are scummy, is that you built a case based on taking quotes out of context, and on seemingly deliberately focusing on what was literally said, as opposed to the intended meaning of the comments.
Reading your log with Sandro, I didn't feel like you thought he was scummy, but then you came out in the thread an made a big case against him, ignoring the obvious pro-town contributions he made earlier. He put a lot of effort into pushing through his plan and his plan is a good one.
You also painted me as scummy/suspicious based on a quote that we had already discussed. Whether you claim you did this inadvertently is irrelevant.
You also seemed to backtrack hard once sandro responded to you, going so far as to state your intention was not to paint sandro as scum, when it obviously was.
It's possible you are town, and it's possible you were just knee-jerking, but at this point i'm still leaning scum on you. Nothing personal, and i'm always willing to change my opinions given additional evidence
Jimbosilvers
First of all, many of the quote are not out of context. Your's was...sort of. We both knew what you meant by it, but I didn't want people to be mislead, and I felt that you summarized a common sentement in the town at that time. (Maybe I read the thread wrong, but it was worth pointing out anyways.)
The point of mentioning that was to PUBLICALLY make sure that everyone didn't think that analysis would be something we shouldn't look at. Read the part I quoted. It's not only possible, but it's likely that people will think that's what you are saying. It's certainly what I thought you were saying when I first read it.
My intention was never to say that you were scummy because of that, and as far as I know, nobody has called you scummy for it. It was baddly worded, but you clarified it in irc.
As far as my log with irc, of course I'm not going to tell him I think he is scummy. If I tell scum that they are scummy, they clam up. The whole point of irc is to get people more comfortable, and in a place where they can more easily make mistakes. If someone starts listing mafia members, you're not going to stop at the first one, and say YOU"RE SCUM!, you are going to keep listening. I kept him talking about the things he said, without trying to leading him into saying scummy things.
I'm not back peddling. The main purpose of that post was always to re-direct the town away from thinking that confirmed innocents will win us the game, and all the other points i put up there. The reason Sandro was more or less a focus of the study, was because he was one of the most obvious sources of this doctrine.
Can you point out specific places where I took Sandro out of context?
Radfield
It's come to my attention that you are almost certainly Kavdragon This makes sense, as it explains the fact that you are jumping around alot, and a bit too overeager in your case against sandro.
Do you still believe sandro to be the best lynch? Are you still running on a platform of lynching him?
"The reason Sandro was more or less a focus of the study, was because he was one of the most obvious sources of this doctrine. "
Do you, or do you not think Sandro is scum?
____________
I understand the desire to push town towards a mindset of analysis, scumhunting etc. That makes sense, particularly in light that several players were downplaying it's importance.
Also, it's not so much that you took Sandro out of context, but you completely glossed over the PURPOSE of his comments. You glossed over the ideas that he was trying to get across.
____________
What are your thoughts on Foolishness? Have you been in contact with him this game?
Jimbosilvers
I believe Sandro is Scum. That's the only reason why I would consider him for lynching. I am not the only person who thinks this.
If the town says I shouldn't lynch Sandro, and presents me with a better case, then sure, I'll do that, but only if I agree with it. It's not my platform, btw, It's just something I would do. I don't really think that people should elect someone on who they will lynch. People asked, I answered.
I don't think that a townie who is as skilled as Sandroba would make comments like he did. No matter how you look at his comments, he was saying that we woudn't need to scum hunt till the end. He was saying that blues will win us this game. He was saying that we should just try to find townies, and protect them.
All three of those are in direct conflict with what recognised "top" players say. I don't care if there are three mafias in this game. There were four parties in PYP3, and that game was won because of analysis. (Analysis that directed blues, sure, but it was still analysis that was the key) There were three parties in Insane 2, and that game was lost because the only people doing analysis were scum.
This setup is not world changing, and what he was suggesting WAS wrong. I think that you are letting him get away with too much. Aren't YOU suspicious of a player who makes those kinds of statements?
As an addendum to this, I would also like to say that we cannot allow people to get away with pushing anti-town statements. That's how Ace plays scum, and it's a ridiculously good way of playing it since, for whatever reason, people let players get away from it all the time. Look at PYP Insane. Ace blatently pushes for pro-mafia agendas, and because he does it so publicly, nobody even calls him on it. I think that it is strange that Radfield so quickly assumes that sandroba was pushing the right ideals, but stating it baddly. Seriously! Read the PM log! Radfield even backs off after I tell him to point out specific examples of things I took out of context, by saying "It's not so much that [i] took sandroba out of context, but you completely glossed over the PURPOSE of his comments"
I find it very strange that Radfield so quickly assumes that the purpose behind those comments was simply to say that defensive roles are better than normal. Yes, that follows from what he says, but that's not at all the only thing he said there.
Now, to adress something that Rad said in PM but I didn't respond to:
Reading your log with Sandro, I didn't feel like you thought he was scummy, but then you came out in the thread an made a big case against him, ignoring the obvious pro-town contributions he made earlier. He put a lot of effort into pushing through his plan and his plan is a good one.
Sandroba’s “pro-town” contributions should NOT give him town credit, because mafia have just as good reason to contribute at that stage. Remember, Effort = invested != town. Like many people have been saying this game, many pro-town things are no longer going to be town tells, because it makes sense for mafia to do them too. Radfield also contradicts himself, as he apparently is doing the same thing to me, forgetting my contrabutions to that discussion. (Heck, I was the first person to suggest that plan in the first place. Sandroba was simply the one who thought it was the right way to go the entire time. )
So radfield, can you explain to me why you think that Sandroba was innocent in his way of thinking, since Sandroba certainly didn't really defend himself in thread. The way I see it, Townies will be suspicious of something, and question it. Not take it for the best case scenario.(Speaking of which, is it just me, or has he's kinda disappeared since, no? Does anyone else find that suspicious?)
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Sorry that I have not been active in the thread as of yet.
I want Mig as Mayor for several reasons. For one I know how good of a scumhunter he is. Having someone as strong as him in that position can only benefit us if Mig is town. And I am convinced of that based on all our conversations.
He is also not known for being a good scumplayer and for one I just do not think he would put himself in the spotlight as scum. The only real issue I can see there is that Scum in this game can actually legitimatly Scumhunt, and thus make it easier for Mig to fit if he where Mafia. That being said, for me there is no way that he would do something that agressive, especially since he is very open on Skype. He really would be transparent, in my opinion and from a personal point of view, I am jus far better at judgin him than Radfield, for example, who I think would be able to pull this of as Scum.
I also like the point Arcto made. Syllo/Mig/Sandro would never play like this if they where on a Scumteam and I too have talked to all of them so much that I am very certain that Mig/Syllo are town and pretty certain that Sandro is, too.
Sooo Mig for mayor , yay!
As for a Day1 Lynch I really do like Chaoser. I pretty much just agree with Mig on that one and just would like to add that after playing XLIV with him(on a mafia team), it seems very likely to me that he is scum. I also really dislike his pulling out of the mayoral campaign so early.
So Chaoser for Day1 lynch, also yay!
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The problem I have with Mig is that he keeps saying that he transparent, but he isn't active in the thread. If you have to go to irc to get a good idea of what someone is saying, or their opinions, they are not going to be a good mayor. Anyone who wants to be mayor needs to be active in the thread, not just pms.
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Oh, and one more important note: Just because mafia can play seemingly pro-town doesn't mean that they will. The fact that there are three mafia teams doesn't mean that scum tells are no longer scum tells.
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On October 16 2011 01:32 JimboSilvers wrote:
Oh, and one more important note: Just because mafia can play seemingly pro-town doesn't mean that they will. The fact that there are three mafia teams doesn't mean that scum tells are no longer scum tells.
No, it mostly means that town-tells are no longer town-tells. (this is very generalized approach, but I hope you catch my drift).
I think Mig/Radfield combination would be excellent.
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On October 15 2011 17:18 syllogism wrote:
This greymist wagon is absolutely scum influenced. I can not believe people like Foolishness would push to elect a new player, especially in this setup. Greymist may still be town, but the intend is clearly to prevent the threat of townie mig being elected.
have you ever identified mig as scum? because all that happens every pm game you 2 play is you work together from the very start.
in kurumi's tf2 mafia with like 5 vets, you claimed to mig day 1. for no other reason that you thought he was town.
I assume you've claimed to mig this game as well. All i want to know is why you think he is town. please.
On October 15 2011 10:45 hiro protagonist wrote:
cool, Im voting for Radfield.
My dream picks are Rad/mig for Mayor/pardoner right now. Both have put a good amount of effort into the thread or PMs. Both are good scumhunters (Well I dont know about Rad, Im going of reputation. but Mig is for sure).
My only hang up about Mig is that prior to getting his role, he showed no interest into becoming Mayor. I might be overly paranoid, but I dont think any scum would have been gunning for the Mayor slot until they got there role.
this makes me feel better about Jimbo, but I still dont want someone with a #3 pick in office.
Hiro is our lynch today everybody. He doesn't want a powerful role in office(#3 pick). I'm not sure why, maybe because that person could be scum with a powerful role? But then we could just lynch this person right? I just don't understand where he's coming from with that and it just looks like he doesn't want a powerful pick in office because it will be harder to night kill.
I can't trust mig because i have seen nothing that convinces me he is town. Mig is, as far as i can tell, syllogism's mafia hero, so syllo instantly thinks he is town every game.
this leaves us with radfield, jimbo and greymist as viable candidates.
I've established jimbo isn't on the same scumteam as hiro but i'm not sure how town he is.
Radfield is weird. He is obviously an excellent scumhunter(go read the last day of the last pyp for this.), but his posts have an off feeling to them.
cool, Im voting for Radfield.
this vote by hiro also comes off as odd. He also said he wants radfield in office because he is a good scumhunter, but he only knows this by representation. Hiro has basically given no reasons to be voting radfield over chaoser or jimbo, both of them also good scumhunters.(I think i know who jimbo is, so that's why im including him). Now either Radfield is scumbuddies with hiro or hiro is just scum putting down an easy vote, but it makes me uneasy of radfield.
Greymist is not experienced enough to be mayor in this game.
Foolishness would have had my vote looking at past games and experience but it seems he's barely playing in this game.
so in conclusion you should still vote me.
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Haha not that this has any relevance to the game, but he absolutely is not my "mafia hero". I thought he was scum in DRH's experimental game, and indeed he was
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@Hiro:
Mafia Hero, Mafia Vet, can both survive lynches. Voting one of those into pardoner is very bad, as it means that if they abuse their powers, we waste 3-4 days trying to get rid of them, as we can't NK them nor lynch them. At pick 3, it is very possible Jimbo could have taken one of those two roles, thus the trepidation when considering his queue placement.
@Jimbo:
Are you still running for mayor/pardoner? You're talking about your reads/posting analysis on Radfield and Sandro, and Mig but you haven't really mentioned if you still consider yourself to be running.
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Btw, I said in the post that I would lynch Sandro, that i would lynch him pending the opinion of the town. At this point, I still think that he's scum, but I don't think that the majority of the town thinks that. So I won't not be lynching Sandroba if I am elected.
Tbh, I'm not positive who I would lynch, but I wouldn't lynch someone that the town doesn't think I should lynch.
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On October 16 2011 02:01 syllogism wrote:
Haha not that this has any relevance to the game, but he absolutely is not my "mafia hero". I thought he was scum in DRH's experimental game, and indeed he was
then why is mig town here
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plus its not like me and my partner IN CRIME are awful scumhunters.
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On October 16 2011 02:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
@Jimbo:
Are you still running for mayor/pardoner? You're talking about your reads/posting analysis on Radfield and Sandro, and Mig but you haven't really mentioned if you still consider yourself to be running.
Yes, I am still running. My platform is my play this game. I don't make empty promises, about what I will do, I just do it.
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Hello all.
First off, sorry for my poor play. I could go on and on about excuses of having had also no time (which I already have with WBG and Mig) and no sleep (even spelling wary as weary -_-) but that doesn't do anything so here I go with putting in some effort.
Defense
One of the main points that WBG brings up against me is that I am usually a very consistent and forceful player. I attack people I think that are scum vehemetly and don't let up. He states that I am not doing as such. The two main examples he uses to support this is my giving up on the dropbear case and also my apparent change of heart on sandroba for syllo and no longer supporting radfield.
In that regard, I'm going to write out my entire logical pathway for this game from the start till now and show that though I haven't been very forceful (A matter of not having enough time and being tired and muddled in the head), I have had a logical train of thought. It'll probably be flow of conciousness though so if you have any questions feel free to PM me as I'll be free till 6-9 PM tonight (last shift for a few weeks! yayyy)
One of the main reasons of the supposed discontinuiaty of my stance is due to the fact that not everything is in thread nor am I good at/had the time to express my line of thought to people in PMs.
In the very beginning, my thoughts were that Radfield is a vet player and he was contributing in thread. From my exprience in LOTR, it is very easy to see if radfield is mafia or not as the game goes on as long as he contributes (That's why I shot him night two). By putting him into office, it would force him to continue contributing and thus make it easy to find out if he is mafia or not. This was before I went to the hospital on my shift. On the way there I realized that would still mean a scum in office and even if it did lead to me figuring out he was scum, it didn't mean that would be the case for everyone (no one else shot him night two of LOTR even though there was like 3 vigi left in the game). I realized my idea of putting them into office->they have to contribute a lot->it would be easy to control/figure out they were mafia was flawed in that regard. So I stratched him off as a good potential mayor to vote for. At the most, he was a null tell for me.
At the same time, I realized out of the two I only really thought Sandro was town due to his post in thread pinpointing the fact that this game was about survival and that it was much more important for town to control the survival roles than to deny the mafia. So much so that initially I had no problems with the syllo/sandro connection. I was willing to go along with it. It was only later (next day) that I was like wait a minute...this is seriously wrong.
The combo thing I talk about is wherebugsgo saying:
<wherebugsgo> so sandroba and radfield were planning on running together?
I was very confused and I was like, didn't you jsut say sandroba and radfield were running? since I had just gotten back from the ER and completely forgot about radfield since I had dismissed him as a decent mafia candidate(if you look at the log there's a 3 hour gap where I'm missing.). Notice how it's not him posting my quote, it's me posting my quote so unless I just decided to prove to WBG that I was contradicting myself, which makes no sense, it more in line with me being out of it.
I realized I was confusing the two different ideas and so I tried to clarify myself by writing down what my thoughts were all together:
[22:48] <chaoser> i meant to say that if i had to vote otherwise besides myself i would vote sand or rad but that i didn't fully 100% trust either one of them. I believe sandroba to be townish and radfield I'm not sure about, hence why previously I had said a null read on him. At the time, those were the only two people I were thinking and I didn't notice syllo at all. After talkign to sandroba about it, I reread syllo's posts and they seemed decently protownie to me. That is why
[00:00] <wherebugsgo> hmm okay
[00:01] <wherebugsgo> I guess that makes sense'
WBG agrees with me.
My conversation with Sandroba later on shows how out of it I really am:
I first started with a conversation with Sandroba where he tried to convince me that syllo was the best choice for office and that I should drop out.
At this time I still thought Sandro was town but over the night shift was vexed more and more by his immense support of syllo's run for office.
I asked him why he trusted syllo and he c/p-ed his reason for trusting syllo (100% town this game only card) of which I thought was borderline cheating. (rule 9). Sandroba even acknowledges this:
[7:50:50 AM] Sandro Maculan: but I can't help but accept it
[7:51:04 AM] Sandro Maculan: it's cheesy as fuck
[7:52:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: it's against the spirit of the game
I PMed GM asking if he thought it was a big enough issue to bring to the hosts and he said it wasn't. But I was still conformtable with it and I still didn't trust him (syllo) at this point, especially after he committed what I viewed as something that was almost illegal. I had yet to talk to him yet and he hadn't made a solid impression to me in thread.
Add in the fact that other people aside from Sandroba (Arctocod) were pushing people to not run and succeeding made me even more suspicious of syllo.
+ Show Spoiler +[8:55:04 AM] Sandro Maculan: hmm not much really
[8:55:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm just trying to get those guys elected
[8:56:48 AM] Chaosers: that's where i have the problem
[8:59:47 AM] Sandro Maculan: how so
[9:00:02 AM] Sandro Maculan: don't you just agreed with me that syllo is town
[9:00:55 AM] Chaosers: two people with 0% thread prescene all of a sudden run TOGETHER with multiple people vouching for their towness and also trying to force other peopel not to run?
[10/14/2011 9:01:10 AM] Sandro Maculan: well
[10/14/2011 9:01:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: that was mostly me
[10/14/2011 9:01:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[10/14/2011 9:01:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm getting them a lot of support
[10/14/2011 9:01:33 AM] Chaosers: archod or whatever
[10/14/2011 9:01:37 AM] Chaosers: is also trying to make me not run
[10/14/2011 9:01:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah
[10/14/2011 9:01:43 AM] Sandro Maculan: that was syllo
[10/14/2011 9:01:46 AM] Sandro Maculan: wasn't me
[10/14/2011 9:01:54 AM] Sandro Maculan: oh is he
[10/14/2011 9:02:22 AM] Sandro Maculan: jimbo is considering stepping down aswell
Sandro then claims that my logic goes from he is cheating to you are lying:
[10/14/2011 9:05:45 AM] Sandro Maculan: well
[10/14/2011 9:05:56 AM] Sandro Maculan: it's funny how you went from that is cheating
[10/14/2011 9:06:02 AM] Sandro Maculan: to you must be lying
when I hadn't at all said anything about lying. I merely stated that I had a problem with the happenings surrounding sandro/syllo/mig at that point.
+ Show Spoiler +[10/14/2011 9:06:15 AM] Chaosers: well GM cleared up some things for me
[10/14/2011 9:06:25 AM] Chaosers: and since he beleives it not to be cheating
[10/14/2011 9:06:28 AM] Chaosers: and i trust him
[10/14/2011 9:06:46 AM] Sandro Maculan: then how do you not trust the info now
[10/14/2011 9:06:50 AM] Chaosers: i believe it to be the next thing which is that i can't trust thigns at face value
[10/14/2011 9:07:17 AM] Chaosers: Not really, if he were scum he could do the same thing, "I promisie I'm town guys!!!!" is not exactly convincing, if you are really concerned about it PM Protac/Incognito and get his judgement on it. Like if I were town I would not buy this "guarantee" at all.
[10/14/2011 9:07:48 AM] Sandro Maculan: I wouldn't buy it from most people
[10/14/2011 9:08:29 AM] Chaosers: ok and you can understand that i'm 1) not you 2) haven't had the same conversations that you did with syllo 3) am trying to paly this game to the best of MY abilities with the information I have before me
[10/14/2011 9:09:11 AM] Chaosers: and so i am unable and unwilling to buy into your extreme level of trust for a person I've barely even spoken to based purely on your words
[10/14/2011 9:09:14 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes I do
[10/14/2011 9:09:24 AM] Sandro Maculan: but what read do you have on me so far
[10/14/2011 9:09:42 AM] Chaosers: i read you as town but jsut becaus you are town doesn't mean you are right
[10/14/2011 9:10:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes but don't you trust my judgment on people I know extremelly well
[10/14/2011 9:10:32 AM] Sandro Maculan: and I know wouldn't lie to me in that spot
[10/14/2011 9:11:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: if he was mafia he wouldn't do that shit
[10/14/2011 9:11:12 AM] Sandro Maculan: syllo wouldn't even say he was town
[10/14/2011 9:11:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: in personality mafia
[10/14/2011 9:11:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: it is a fact man
[10/14/2011 9:11:37 AM] Chaosers: not at all, qatol and dreamflower technically know each other best but they've been wrong in their judgement of each other before. gm and barundar played three games with me and they were extremely comfortable with me having played as mafia with me as well as town in a row, and i got them to trust me when i was mafia
[10/14/2011 9:11:38 AM] Sandro Maculan: he was so disturbed talking to me and having to lie
[10/14/2011 9:11:47 AM] Sandro Maculan: he considered suiciding me night one
[10/14/2011 9:11:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: so he didn't have to deal with it
[10/14/2011 9:12:20 AM] Chaosers: i didn't know being a shitty mafia and then changing one's play was a town-tell now
[10/14/2011 9:12:28 AM] Chaosers: so basically in any PM game
[10/14/2011 9:12:31 AM] Chaosers: syllo can jsut talk to people
[10/14/2011 9:12:39 AM] Chaosers: and gt an auto town confirm?
[10/14/2011 9:13:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: well he can't do it anymore
[10/14/2011 9:13:49 AM] Sandro Maculan: since he would be auto mafia
[10/14/2011 9:14:00 AM] Sandro Maculan: any other time he didn't do this
[10/14/2011 9:14:33 AM] Chaosers: why would he be auto mafia?
[10/14/2011 9:14:45 AM] Chaosers: if he's mafia in this game
[10/14/2011 9:14:49 AM] Sandro Maculan: because if he does that evey game he is town
[10/14/2011 9:14:52 AM] Chaosers: why would he be auto mafia in another game
[10/14/2011 9:14:52 AM] Chaosers: for lying
[10/14/2011 9:14:55 AM] Chaosers: about a promise
[10/14/2011 9:14:56 AM] Chaosers: in this game?
[10/14/2011 9:14:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: well he is not
[10/14/2011 9:15:04 AM] Sandro Maculan: he wouldn't lie like that
[10/14/2011 9:15:15 AM] Sandro Maculan: I know him well man
[10/14/2011 9:15:27 AM] Sandro Maculan: he would just never mention it
[10/14/2011 9:18:22 AM] Chaosers: ...
At this point you can start to see that my logic is starting to get muddled as I don't call him out on any of his loggical infallacies in thread nor do I make a big deal out of it as I normally do, in particular, this one where he tries to convince me that because I thought he was town I should trust him that syllo is town:
[10/14/2011 9:09:14 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes I do
[10/14/2011 9:09:24 AM] Sandro Maculan: but what read do you have on me so far
[10/14/2011 9:09:42 AM] Chaosers: i read you as town but jsut becaus you are town doesn't mean you are right
[10/14/2011 9:10:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes but don't you trust my judgment on people I know extremelly well
[10/14/2011 9:10:32 AM] Sandro Maculan: and I know wouldn't lie to me in that spot
[10/14/2011 9:11:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: if he was mafia he wouldn't do that shit
This isn't me being a scum protecting another scum by not bringing this fact up in thread, this is me being a shitty player. If I was in any sort of sound mental state I would have immediately posted this in thread and been like WTF? and get me some towncred. Anyway, so we keep talking and after a while I start buying into the whole syllo is town thing for god knows what reason. Part of it was because I somehow still thought sandro was town at this point and also because I was still stuck up/mentally jarred by the 100%-town card thing as can be seen in my end convo with him:
+ Show Spoiler +[10/14/2011 10:36:10 AM] Chaosers: wouldn't it be easier to run yourself?
[10/14/2011 10:36:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: I have my reasons for not running
[10/14/2011 10:37:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: I followed my own plan
[10/14/2011 10:38:14 AM] Chaosers: ah
[10/14/2011 10:38:15 AM] Chaosers: got it
[10/14/2011 10:39:41 AM] Chaosers: ok i can get why you trust syllo now but why did he trust you enoguh to use his "100% town card"?
[10/14/2011 10:41:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: that I don't know
[10/14/2011 10:41:38 AM] Sandro Maculan: maybe by thread?
[10/14/2011 10:41:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: I don't think I'm good scum
[10/14/2011 10:41:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm obvious as fuck as town
[10/14/2011 12:44:15 PM] Chaosers: do you acknowledge
[10/14/2011 12:44:20 PM] Chaosers: what syllo did
[10/14/2011 12:44:29 PM] Chaosers: was borderline unacceptable?
[10/14/2011 12:45:09 PM] Sandro Maculan: hmm
[10/14/2011 12:45:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: I aknowledge it's cheap
[10/14/2011 12:49:16 PM] Chaosers: acknowledge that it is unacceptable and i'll agree to your plan
[10/14/2011 12:49:52 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[10/14/2011 12:50:07 PM] Sandro Maculan: I wouldn't do it
[10/14/2011 12:50:26 PM] Sandro Maculan: but I don't think it's "unacceptable"
[10/14/2011 12:50:44 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's botherline cheating I'll give you that
[10/14/2011 12:50:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: borderlie*
[10/14/2011 12:50:52 PM] Sandro Maculan: wow
[10/14/2011 12:50:53 PM] Chaosers: ok
[10/14/2011 12:50:58 PM] Sandro Maculan: borderline
[10/14/2011 12:51:18 PM] Chaosers: i'm willing to withdraw
I am so muddled and not thinking straight that I completely buy into the sandroba/syllo are probably town since syllo "cheated" and during the time I first saw it I bought into the "he cheated, he's probably town" argument which is why I pmed GM about it. So much so that even though previously I was really suspicious of the trust level, I was willing to go along with it.
Even if you did say I was merely pushing an agenda, what agenda was I pushing? I'd understand if you think sandroba and I were on the same team and thus I would lie about my opinions on him to others by saying I support him and ignore radfield but clearly in this case I'm not connected to sandroba at all given how our conversation went down.
Seriously look at my play and ask yourself is this chaoser trying to be scummy or is this chaoser being tired as fuck and not being able to fully place his time into the game. If you want an example of me being busy as fuck and not being fully into the game go look at PYP Insane. I was Townie DT in that setup and everyone thought I was scummy. I gave shitty cases and my opinions on people looked like they wavered back in forth in thread because I had neither the time nor mental capacity at the time to post all my thought as they were coming up to paint a coherent and consistent picture.
some cases against me in that thread:
Also because I'm in the mood, I'll answer your questions.
1.) Chaoser- this might seem OMGUS, but his vote on me is entirely out of character, chaoser never just goes for an "easy" vote, yet he jumped on me for what I see as poor reasoning, something is off
Time constraints aside (and he hypothetically made time to 'catch up' on the thread after he announced the completion of his interview), this isn't the Chaoser from XXXVIII. He's not being inactive; he's lurking. And all good marines kill lurkers on sight.
I'm sorry if I'm bringing up past games again but I feel like this is a justifiable case of showing that I act exactly the same way when I'm preoccupied by life/medical school + not getting enough sleep.
Looking back on it all now with +9 hours of sleep in my body, I should have seen that sandroba was being extremely scummy from the get go.
I'll post up my DB case in the next post.
Oh and the whole "running a mayor campaign based on past games is hardly an arguement since the campaign was barely run cause I had no time to run one and I withdraw really early on (Friday afternoon). That frst post was clearly a post written lightheartedly. I thought I would have had more time when I first started to flesh out my platform but that ended up not being the case.
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EPT
