|
On June 19 2011 06:03 sandroba wrote:
That's not wifom, wifom is arguing the other way around. That's just how scum normally behave. It's not certain to me that he's not mafia, but makes it more unlikely.
Scum normally behave like A.
Suspect is behaving like B.
Thus, Suspect must be town.
OR
Scum normally behave like A.
Scum knows that scum normally behave like A.
Scum acts like B instead.
Town thinks Scum is town.
It's basic WIFOM. That's like saying in PYPI, Chezinu is acting really crazy, thus he must be town. Ace is being forward and direct, thus he must be town.
You have to look at his actions by themselves, and judge them for how they work in the game you're playing. You can't just compare everyone in every game to your expected behaviour for scum and make your calls from there. Sure, it might be a start, but if all scum acted like scum, then this game wouldn't be very hard, would it?
That's why I'm interested in seeing RoL's views, because that will let me see his actual thought processes. Right now, I have a null read, starting to lean a bit more towards scum, simply because he hasn't done anything all game, until very recently, and it was starting to look scummy with constant delaying tactics.
@RoL
If you don't feel comfortable releasing a scum list, are you going to make a fuller case on syllogism? I just want to see where you're coming from now, because the only read I can make is from lack of content, which won't ever be very strong.
|
I will give a fuller analysis when I finish. That post just really stuck out at me. I will give a more definite suspect and analysis as soon as I can.
|
I am looking forward to your analysis on syllogism or anyone else.
|
I actually just finished reading the whole thread, I just skimmed the last 10 pages or so though. I will come out with something soon.
|
@Viscera
+ Show Spoiler +On June 19 2011 04:14 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 03:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I feel like I should inform all of you that I may have killed Aidnai. We were playing BW and I was trying to show him how to port forward and told him to reset his router, I didn't realize he wasn't hardwired and he walked away before I could give him the rest of the directions to fix it. So I dunno when he's going to figure this out. I sent him a PM with the directions on how to reconfigure his network and port forward, but he hasn't responded yet so I can only assume that he hasn't fixed his internet yet. OMG dude...useless information is useless. It would've meant something if someone had noticed that he was gone for a while, but as it stands this post is absolutely meaningless, especially considering half the town is voting you so you'll contribute. The longer that goes by that RoL does NOT contribute, the more sure I am that I have NO need to change my vote once he DOES post some kind of contribution.
How is this useless information?
Ofc it is better that he informs us of this now, rather than later, when people start to accuse Aidnai for lurking. If he had done so people would be pissed because he didn't tell us earlier, and become even more angry that he isn't contributing enough. Sure, I agree it would be great if he would start be more active(which i understand from his later posts, he soon will be), but I think that this is just silly.
Also, you have pretty much done the same thing people accuse RoL for. You prommised us a case on Hiro, and you have brought us none, even though you have been posting since.
+ Show Spoiler +My name is VisceraEyes, and I support a lynch of hiro protagonist.
Reasons to follow (when I'm near a computer -.-)
Allthough RoL have done more so(quite a bit more) than you, it would be great if you would actually present your case.
I'm looking forward to both of you presenting your cases for and against Hiro. It will be interesting to compare.
I'm going to bed now, and I promise to read the thread and comment on what has been happening during my sleepytime as soon as i wake up. I definitly have to start being more active.
|
Well here it comes, this isn't going to be a major analysis but something worth discussing nonetheless.
syllogism
The first post I want to point out is the one I linked earlier.
On June 15 2011 21:26 syllogism wrote:My vote will be on ilovejonn and will remain there unless a better suspect arises. It's a typical early day 1 case, but youngminii did outline valid points and his defence has so far been questionable. Further, I would like to outline this post againShow nested quote +On June 14 2011 13:37 ilovejonn wrote:On June 14 2011 13:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Zodiac list time.
Rebirthoflegend
BloodyC0bbler
Node
Mr.Wiggles
Kitaman
Opz
Youngminii
Scamp
I'd also like to suggest that people on this list, if you're on towns side of course, to start posting, because you know, getting killed Night 0 sucks. This post would make more sense if he had just encouraged everyone on the list to start posting, though perhaps that town qualifier was just there to pressure mafia. In addition, logically it doesn't make much sense as getting killed on night 0 sucks whether you happened to make a few posts or not and posting would only make it more likely.
The entire bold portion is completely non committing. He is voting for someone while saying its "Just until a better suspect arises" which is bullshit, its what mafia do when they know they are lynching a town. They want to look like they weren't the ones gungho for the lynch at all, and therefore can't be held accountable. The only reason you wouldn't want to be held accountable in mafia is if you have something to hide, which I believe is evidenced by this post.
On June 17 2011 07:08 syllogism wrote:
I won't be around for the deadline, so I'll rather leave my vote on ILJ than the random lurker. If ILJ doesn't show up before the deadline, you should get more suspicious. If we do have to go with a lurker lynch, sticking with grassgiraffe currently makes most sense.
The voting was so heavily stacked against ILJ, if you are going AFK the only logical thing to do would be to switch your vote to the possible last minute switch that people were considering (ILJ was OBVIOUSLY green) I mean this could just be poor logic on his part.
I am not going to quote every single post of his, but these two posts do a good job of sampling 90% of his posts.
On June 15 2011 03:17 syllogism wrote:
The only plan the town needs is everyone contributing, relentless analysis and focus on the most suspicious players. As noted, this is a standard game, the mason mechanic aside, so there's no way to break the game.
This is literally just repeating word for word something I said a few posts earlier. He is contributing NOTHING while posting some shit other people said. That combined with the earlier tell I would of been happy to Day 1 him easily.
On June 16 2011 03:23 syllogism wrote:
You just did what he accused of, again.
This is the only thing he said to ILJ, it didn't even explain what he was referring to and I read that post and the one he is referring to which can be found here so hes just trying to contribute to everyone thinking ILJ is scummy, when he was not. You have to prove your points and argue against someone, making blanket statements while ILJ is already taking on half the players in arguments about why he is/isn't scummy and all that does is needlessly throw more weight onto ILJ's back.
On June 17 2011 01:48 syllogism wrote:RebirthOfLeGenD stealth [placeholder] voted Kenpachi and I can't blame him; that is to say obviously assign some blame for stealth voting, but not the target. His contributions so far + Show Spoiler +On June 15 2011 05:59 Kenpachi wrote:
hi im Kenpachi
i slept all day yesterday so thats the reason why i was mia (surprise!)
btw, im a townie On June 16 2011 10:13 Kenpachi wrote:
There is nothing to talk about for me really.. I cant say much except that Sinani has been a total hypocrite. Other than that, i just cant put a finger on w/e is going on right now On June 16 2011 22:49 Kenpachi wrote:
kk. Time to get my shit on.
/game face
...
ill get my shit on later.
##Vote:Sinani206
Seems to be the only one suspicious You can do better than this Meanwhile, we've about 9 hours until lynch and 11 people haven't voted yet Show nested quote +aidnai, demorcerf, GGQ, hiro protagonist, Imprevious, Jacinto, LandenC, Lazorbear, Node, sandroba, sinari206 In addition, 5 people haven't even posted today. GGQ has been around today at least, but hasn't graced this thread with his presence. Show nested quote +GGQ, Jacinto, LandenC, Lazorbear, Node (Jacinto and LandenC didn't post on N0 either) At the pace things are going, we won't have much material to work on tomorrow unless we somehow hit the jackpot with the lynch or night actions.
This is his only largish post really. It is once again just echoing other players.
My conclusion here is that syllogism is scum. He has one major scum tell early on day 1, then proceeds to never actually say anything of substance while sheeping a bad lynch.
|
Vote stays on ROL until I see this in depth analysis that he's promised. Not sure that I like how quiet this bandwagon is. There's no opposition, no long arguments against, everybody seems content with bandwagoning and moving on.
ROL, I'd like to see the reasons for that town read on Hiro, because my vote would go to him if it wasn't on you.
|
To mount a moderate defense of me, look at the thread right now. No one has posted shit the entire day cycle. You know why? Because I am town. The biggest tell that you are lynching a townie is that the thread is dead. I don't give a shit if the mafia is getting "bussed" or anything. If a mafia is going to go down there is going to be 10 pages of arguing behind his hung corpse. When you see a thread completely inactive and one guy with 7 votes on him, you know the mafia is totally complacent with that lynch.
That's the same shit you could see with ILJ, no one was really fighting for him and he was getting sucker punched and sheeped the whole day. Any other candidates that were brought up were just spammed away. So apply that to this situation. We are about 24 hours into Day 2, there are 7 votes on me, and the only other vote not on me is the person I am voting for.
Hint: I am not scum. Anyone going along with this is an idiot. I decided to wait a while before pointing this out just to emphasize just how much the thread has died. In the last 8 hours, there has been like 3 posts not by me.
If you want an explanation for what I was doing, then ask specific questions and I will answer it, but honestly it will be a waste of time.
|
On June 19 2011 05:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 05:49 sandroba wrote:
Well RoL, I really don't think you are scum, because you are acting too controversial and reckless, claiming multiple shit and atracting attention to yourself, and that's the exact oposite of how scum usually behave imo. However, people are right that you have been useless so far, so how about you share with us your 3-4 scum suspects and do some analysis?
You are saying ILJ lynch was retarded but you did not try to stop it. Also how are you supose to be able to "scumhunt in pm land" if you don't even have time to read the fucking thread? It's kind of hard to defend you when you do nothing to defend yourself.
To explain that, I used that PM strategy to assure myself N0 medic protection because I assumed I was likely to get hit early on, and by pretending I was very important the mafia would be too scared to actually hit me, because I was likely to draw a protect. I actually never received even close to as many masons as I claimed. I have like 3 atm.
Huh, odd.
At the start I assumed your strategy was for you to draw a hit since you are veteran or already have a Doctor at hand to protect you.
But isn´t this behavior rather selfish?
Lie to get Doctor protection *and* be avoided by mafia hits.
On the other hand there is LAL for a reason. If you lie too often, people stop believing you, even if you tell the truth.
For you 2 questions:
- 1. Why did you do 2 half assed role claims in the thread, other than you being a mischievous badger?
- 2. Why did you refuse to help town until Kenpachi is killed?
Bonus question: Youngminii already told us he is masoned to RoL. If you really have only 3 masons, why did you find the time to post BS in the thread, but not PM anything serious with one of your 3 PM buddies?
|
On June 19 2011 10:21 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 05:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 19 2011 05:49 sandroba wrote:
Well RoL, I really don't think you are scum, because you are acting too controversial and reckless, claiming multiple shit and atracting attention to yourself, and that's the exact oposite of how scum usually behave imo. However, people are right that you have been useless so far, so how about you share with us your 3-4 scum suspects and do some analysis?
You are saying ILJ lynch was retarded but you did not try to stop it. Also how are you supose to be able to "scumhunt in pm land" if you don't even have time to read the fucking thread? It's kind of hard to defend you when you do nothing to defend yourself.
To explain that, I used that PM strategy to assure myself N0 medic protection because I assumed I was likely to get hit early on, and by pretending I was very important the mafia would be too scared to actually hit me, because I was likely to draw a protect. I actually never received even close to as many masons as I claimed. I have like 3 atm. Huh, odd. At the start I assumed your strategy was for you to draw a hit since you are veteran or already have a Doctor at hand to protect you. But isn´t this behavior rather selfish? Lie to get Doctor protection *and* be avoided by mafia hits. On the other hand there is LAL for a reason. If you lie too often, people stop believing you, even if you tell the truth. For you 2 questions: - 1. Why did you do 2 half assed role claims in the thread, other than you being a mischievous badger?
- 2. Why did you refuse to help town until Kenpachi is killed?
Bonus question: Youngminii already told us he is masoned to RoL. If you really have only 3 masons, why did you find the time to post BS in the thread, but not PM anything serious with one of your 3 PM buddies?
....How would you know if he didn't PM anything serious to one of his PM buddies if you don't mind me asking?
You get my vote for that...
No ones questioned my disappearance?
|
I question why he has not enough time for 3 people to PM to.
He presented himself as some kind of PM Superman and one or two people actually said he is really that good.
And now he can´t handle more than 2 people in PMs?
You´re putting words in my mouth. My point is he didn´t PM anything serious with Youngminii.
I don´t know with whom else he PMed and I don´t accuse him for stuff I don´t know anything about.
|
On June 19 2011 10:21 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 05:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 19 2011 05:49 sandroba wrote:
Well RoL, I really don't think you are scum, because you are acting too controversial and reckless, claiming multiple shit and atracting attention to yourself, and that's the exact oposite of how scum usually behave imo. However, people are right that you have been useless so far, so how about you share with us your 3-4 scum suspects and do some analysis?
You are saying ILJ lynch was retarded but you did not try to stop it. Also how are you supose to be able to "scumhunt in pm land" if you don't even have time to read the fucking thread? It's kind of hard to defend you when you do nothing to defend yourself.
To explain that, I used that PM strategy to assure myself N0 medic protection because I assumed I was likely to get hit early on, and by pretending I was very important the mafia would be too scared to actually hit me, because I was likely to draw a protect. I actually never received even close to as many masons as I claimed. I have like 3 atm. Huh, odd. At the start I assumed your strategy was for you to draw a hit since you are veteran or already have a Doctor at hand to protect you. But isn´t this behavior rather selfish? Lie to get Doctor protection *and* be avoided by mafia hits. On the other hand there is LAL for a reason. If you lie too often, people stop believing you, even if you tell the truth. For you 2 questions: - 1. Why did you do 2 half assed role claims in the thread, other than you being a mischievous badger?
- 2. Why did you refuse to help town until Kenpachi is killed?
Bonus question: Youngminii already told us he is masoned to RoL. If you really have only 3 masons, why did you find the time to post BS in the thread, but not PM anything serious with one of your 3 PM buddies?
1. I was bored and thought it would be funny and I wanted kenpachi dead.
2. I was going to help either way, I just hoped that would give some incentive to kill kenpachi.
+1 who says I haven't been talking to my PM contacts? Youngminii is the only person I haven'tbeen actively talking to and that's because he won't get on skype.
|
Where is node. His last post was 48 hours ago. He is supposedly experienced enough to be on that zodiac list right, so why does it seem he only has several posts with nearly half being contentless -- the inclusion of an xkcd comic, a spam post just to call another post spam, and a post in the vote thread to show a partially inaccurate vote count. He mentioned he had computer troubles a couple days ago, did his computer completely die now or is he in total lurker mode?
|
Remember that thing I said about a dead thread being an obvious tell...?
|
I'm in complete agreement with RoL, tbh.
|
|
|
I'm back :D
RoL did indeed make me kill my internet connection. I also had a mini vacation. But I'm back now, and caught up.
LYNCHING ROL IS DUMB. I'm masoned with him, you can take my townie credit for what it's worth on this one.
We don't lynch to punish bad behaviour. (Vigis should do that). We lynch to kill scum.
The reason this is so important is that if we policy lynch RoL, we aren't forcing anyone town or scum to do analysis, defense, etc. People like to say we don't lynch for information--I think it's more accurate to say we certainly do lynch for information--you just don't get any information UNLESS you are lynching to kill scum.
I'm going to drop my case against Hiro for the moment. I have a number of reasons for this, the biggest among them being the assessment that he actually believes and stands by what he posts. Even though his scumslip is, frankly, ridiculously bad coming from a townie, he seems to actually believe that it was justifiable, which means he is not hiding.
I'm going to agree with RoL (and scamp!) that syllogism should be our scum target today. Scamp makes his suspicion known via this postOn June 17 2011 07:47 Scamp wrote:
I need to go and I won't be back before the deadline. As stated earlier, I don't think either ILJ or GG are scum so I won't be voting for them. However, I do like aidnai's case against him as outlined a few posts before this one. Also my read on GG is null but I'm suspicious of a few people that are voting for him.
You can treat my vote as an abstain vote but it's going on someone who I will be looking at more closely on the next day. coupled with his vote on Syllogism.
Reading syllogisms posts, what I see is that he flings suspicion on multiple people without ever pushing for a lynch or following through. Coupled with the fact that the lynch he DID push (ILJ's) he was wishywashy on, I'm pretty convinced we found our first scum here.
|
@RoL
That suits me. I was never after you doing all the work, you've presented a decent case against Syllo and now I'm satisfied that you've contributed. I've unvoted you.
@Rest of Town
The only reason I was so vocally trying to get RoL to contribute is because A) he's on the damn list and that's what we're SUPPOSED to do, and B) because honestly, his behavior d1 DID appear scummy to me. It STILL looks scummy to me. But he's ABSOLUTELY right about the thread. If he were mafia, someone would be in here defending him.
As for my case against Hiro, it's coming. But I'm LITERALLY laying in bed next to my wife, and I don't have the cognitive capacity currently to coherently explain my points. I'll look at the facts early tomorrow. But as a teaser, chew on this. Hiro had literally NO input on the Zodiac List n0. Practically didn't even acknowledge it. This is in SPITE of several vets speaking up in support of it.
And someone on the list got pwnd n0. My guess? Scum were instructed to talk about anything BUT the list unless they knew what it was and how to sound intelligent about it.
Anyway, I'm done tonight...I WILL get a case together tomorrow.
Thanks for contributing RoL. I'm certainly going to go look at Syllogism's post more thoroughly.
|
Dammit, I need sleep. ##unvote RebirthOfLeGenD
I've got a bit of a null read on syllogism at the moment, will take a closer look at his posting tomorrow, because I'm not quite thinking straight at the moment.
Town needs to be more active. Hopefully the thread will pick up when somebody other than RebirthOfLeGenD is leading the lynch.
|
I've got a bit of a null read on syllogism at the moment, will take a closer look at his posting tomorrow, because I'm not quite thinking straight at the moment.
Oh god, I really do need sleep. Repeating the same phrase twice in the same sentence...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
