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On May 27 2013 06:14 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:13 Derez wrote:On May 27 2013 06:12 Benjamin99 wrote:On May 27 2013 06:09 ssxsilver wrote:On May 27 2013 06:06 Gr33d wrote:On May 27 2013 06:04 Benjamin99 wrote:
Seriously the The old BW team liquid legacy is like a cancer to the growth of starcraft 2 as a global esport Even though you are such a low minority but very loud
Could not say it better. If you want to watch koreans winning everything you could still watch: WCS KR (GSL) WCS Finals DH IEM Didn't IPL try the region-lock thing for S1 and failed horribly? And WCS EU had region lock last season and it was a gigantic success! So was today. Half of the people in this thread are just upset Stephano lost and are blaming the WCS EU structure for it lol. I mean I can get why they're complaining, Stephano would have beaten any other EU player in a bo7(probably). So in their eyes their hero was cheated out of a championship by having to play against Mvp. Mvp is not invincible, MMA, Forgg and any other KR players in EU are not even close to invincible, beat them next time.
Umm, they did get beaten? Everyone of whom you listed lost at least on BO3 to a european...
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Some of you need a sarcasm detector too.
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On May 27 2013 06:04 Benjamin99 wrote:Nothing like it. I'm generally getting really pissed that people actually defend this farce. The world cup in football don't only got German,Spanish,Brazilian and Argentinian teams do they? We actually got countries in Africa representing AfricaAnd that's why football is the biggest sport in the world Seriously the The old BW team liquid legacy is like a cancer to the growth of starcraft 2 as a global esport. Even though you are such a low minority but very loud
Seriously why is this post report button sending me to some other page?
Fucking permaban would be letting you go easy. People with sticks should go to your house and poke you for 92minutes. That would teach you!
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On May 27 2013 06:14 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:09 eronica wrote:On May 27 2013 06:07 sitromit wrote:On May 27 2013 06:05 eronica wrote:
When Stephano won NASL (NORTH AMERICAN star league) nobody said anything. Don't lie to yourself, it's about korean and foreigner. The country/region debate is just an excuse. Of course, just like nobody is complaining about Snute now, and no one complained when Naniwa won MLG before Koreans started coming to US tournaments. Snute is good example (not the naniwa case though, MLG is just MLG,nothing seems to be related to region) It's basically people don't seem to mind when Europeans come over to win tournaments in the USA, but as soon as a Korean does it, and all hell breaks loose
Here we go the race card I was just waiting for that one.
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On May 27 2013 06:14 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:13 Derez wrote:On May 27 2013 06:12 Benjamin99 wrote:On May 27 2013 06:09 ssxsilver wrote:On May 27 2013 06:06 Gr33d wrote:On May 27 2013 06:04 Benjamin99 wrote:
Seriously the The old BW team liquid legacy is like a cancer to the growth of starcraft 2 as a global esport Even though you are such a low minority but very loud
Could not say it better. If you want to watch koreans winning everything you could still watch: WCS KR (GSL) WCS Finals DH IEM Didn't IPL try the region-lock thing for S1 and failed horribly? And WCS EU had region lock last season and it was a gigantic success! So was today. Half of the people in this thread are just upset Stephano lost and are blaming the WCS EU structure for it lol. I mean I can get why they're complaining, Stephano would have beaten any other EU player in a bo7(probably). So in their eyes their hero was cheated out of a championship by having to play against Mvp. Mvp is not invincible, MMA, Forgg and any other KR players in EU are not even close to invincible, beat them next time.
Lucifron beat mvp 2-0, I guess he should have been in the finals hehe
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On May 27 2013 06:10 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:09 Fusilero wrote:On May 27 2013 06:07 Antylamon wrote:On May 27 2013 06:06 Gr33d wrote:On May 27 2013 06:04 Benjamin99 wrote:
Seriously the The old BW team liquid legacy is like a cancer to the growth of starcraft 2 as a global esport Even though you are such a low minority but very loud
Could not say it better. If you want to watch koreans winning everything you could still watch: WCS KR (GSL) WCS Finals DH IEM What? I never even played BW and I'm fine with Koreans winning The only people who like Koreans are filthy BW elitists those accursed old men holding esports back for the young generations. Nice hyperbole fusilero. I know the truth hurt sometimes. But a good friend will tell you the truth it no matter if you don't like to hear it.
I love you baby never change <3.
On another note I dunno how people can say MVP/ForGG/MMA hurt WCS EU surely they created a better storyline like what's the storyline for Euro on Euro action who's the best in Europe? I guess that's alright but this whole Europe holds while silly as fuck was a cool thing that ran through the tournament could Europe defeat those three proven champions of Korea here for the money. For ForGG and MMA the answer was yes. For MVP it was no that's a storyline. WCS NA had a cool storyline of NA trying to scrape what it could from the horde of Koreans (Ty axiom/quantic/EG/TL) do you think drunkenbonjwa would have gotten 1% of the attention he did if he didn't beat miya or theognis if he didn't beat jaedong. While I get complaints that Korea could negate a region I think entirely locking it would be silly perhaps enforce staying to make people commit but I think the Koreans actually enhanced the regions.
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On May 27 2013 06:15 a3den wrote:
Some of you need a sarcasm detector too.
Sometimes it's hard to tell over the internet
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On May 27 2013 06:14 Bagi wrote:
Now that the bitching is dying down, does anyone know if they have released information on WCS AM finals?
Where it will be held, casters and such?
The same MLG office as they used for the ro16 I assume, no idea about casters.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On May 27 2013 06:12 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:10 Crownlol wrote:On May 27 2013 06:09 eronica wrote:On May 27 2013 06:07 sitromit wrote:On May 27 2013 06:05 eronica wrote:
When Stephano won NASL (NORTH AMERICAN star league) nobody said anything. Don't lie to yourself, it's about korean and foreigner. The country/region debate is just an excuse. Of course, just like nobody is complaining about Snute now, and no one complained when Naniwa won MLG before Koreans started coming to US tournaments. Snute is good example (not the naniwa case though, MLG is just MLG,nothing seems to be related to region) Neither of those events purported to be regional championships. Snute is in ro8 WCS America. Everyone is complaining about the Koreans but not Snute. How is that different from Koreans in WCS EU?
As long as he doesn't steal the trophy from a deserving American it's fine. If he had ended up beating someone like Scarlett in the finals though, he'd probably be accused of preventing the growth of the American scene as well.
In the end, I still think it comes down to people being able to more easily identify themselves with Snute than with Revival, but most would never admit that so it's mostly pointless to argue.
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On May 27 2013 06:14 Bagi wrote:
Now that the bitching is dying down, does anyone know if they have released information on WCS AM finals?
Where it will be held, casters and such?
Next weekend, MLG studios probably, BitterdaM and AXAX confirmed, wouldn't rule out some guest appearances, I guess. Don't get your hopes up too much.
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On May 27 2013 06:15 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:14 Dodgin wrote:On May 27 2013 06:13 Derez wrote:On May 27 2013 06:12 Benjamin99 wrote:On May 27 2013 06:09 ssxsilver wrote:On May 27 2013 06:06 Gr33d wrote:On May 27 2013 06:04 Benjamin99 wrote:
Seriously the The old BW team liquid legacy is like a cancer to the growth of starcraft 2 as a global esport Even though you are such a low minority but very loud
Could not say it better. If you want to watch koreans winning everything you could still watch: WCS KR (GSL) WCS Finals DH IEM Didn't IPL try the region-lock thing for S1 and failed horribly? And WCS EU had region lock last season and it was a gigantic success! So was today. Half of the people in this thread are just upset Stephano lost and are blaming the WCS EU structure for it lol. I mean I can get why they're complaining, Stephano would have beaten any other EU player in a bo7(probably). So in their eyes their hero was cheated out of a championship by having to play against Mvp. Mvp is not invincible, MMA, Forgg and any other KR players in EU are not even close to invincible, beat them next time. Umm, they did get beaten? Everyone of whom you listed lost at least on BO3 to a european...
Right, that's what I'm saying. EU players can easily beat all the Koreans playing in WCS EU other than Mvp, and they have a decent shot at beating Mvp too if they prepare better next time.
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On May 27 2013 06:14 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:13 Derez wrote:On May 27 2013 06:12 Benjamin99 wrote:On May 27 2013 06:09 ssxsilver wrote:On May 27 2013 06:06 Gr33d wrote:On May 27 2013 06:04 Benjamin99 wrote:
Seriously the The old BW team liquid legacy is like a cancer to the growth of starcraft 2 as a global esport Even though you are such a low minority but very loud
Could not say it better. If you want to watch koreans winning everything you could still watch: WCS KR (GSL) WCS Finals DH IEM Didn't IPL try the region-lock thing for S1 and failed horribly? And WCS EU had region lock last season and it was a gigantic success! So was today. Half of the people in this thread are just upset Stephano lost and are blaming the WCS EU structure for it lol. I mean I can get why they're complaining, Stephano would have beaten any other EU player in a bo7(probably). So in their eyes their hero was cheated out of a championship by having to play against Mvp. Mvp is not invincible, MMA, Forgg and any other KR players in EU are not even close to invincible, beat them next time.
Last year, according to all reports, Stephano came to WCS EU finals having partied in LA with the NASL crew instead of training, and waltzed his way to a free win. This year, he said he actually trained, which is good for him as a player, and good for the spectators, but in the end he came up short.
Maybe future EU champions will have to practice a bit harder. I can't see that being bad for the scene.
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4713 Posts
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!
However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.
The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.
All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.
Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.
But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it.
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best sc2 viewing experience at least in hots for me, from airing time over production quality to games.
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On May 27 2013 06:16 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:10 Benjamin99 wrote:On May 27 2013 06:09 Fusilero wrote:On May 27 2013 06:07 Antylamon wrote:On May 27 2013 06:06 Gr33d wrote:On May 27 2013 06:04 Benjamin99 wrote:
Seriously the The old BW team liquid legacy is like a cancer to the growth of starcraft 2 as a global esport Even though you are such a low minority but very loud
Could not say it better. If you want to watch koreans winning everything you could still watch: WCS KR (GSL) WCS Finals DH IEM What? I never even played BW and I'm fine with Koreans winning The only people who like Koreans are filthy BW elitists those accursed old men holding esports back for the young generations. Nice hyperbole fusilero. I know the truth hurt sometimes. But a good friend will tell you the truth it no matter if you don't like to hear it. I love you baby never change <3. On another note I dunno how people can say MVP/ForGG/MMA hurt WCS EU surely they created a better storyline like what's the storyline for Euro on Euro action who's the best in Europe? I guess that's alright but this whole Europe holds while silly as fuck was a cool thing that ran through the tournament could Europe defeat those three proven champions of Korea here for the money. For ForGG and MMA the answer was yes. For MVP it was no that's a storyline. WCS NA had a cool storyline of NA trying to scrape what it could from the horde of Koreans (Ty axiom/quantic/EG/TL) do you think drunkenbonjwa would have gotten 1% of the attention he did if he didn't beat miya or theognis if he didn't beat jaedong. While I get complaints that Korea could negate a region I think entirely locking it would be silly perhaps enforce staying to make people commit but I think the Koreans actually enhanced the regions.
Never will hehe:D They don't hurt the EU scene. Like Dodgin said this is good for the EU scene. But is because Europe is very isolated. What´s being done to the NA scene is a travesty.
Anyway been a great day today for starcraft so lets enjoy that and discuss all this crap l8r:D
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This tournament finale was so epic. I love the GSL with all my heart but this was epic in a totally different way. Really really great, looking forward to next WCS EU
Also I used to be pretty bearish on Stephano but really wish he would stay longer, god damn it's great to watch him play.
Finally, I want to see ForGG win a title 
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On May 27 2013 06:16 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:10 Benjamin99 wrote:On May 27 2013 06:09 Fusilero wrote:On May 27 2013 06:07 Antylamon wrote:On May 27 2013 06:06 Gr33d wrote:On May 27 2013 06:04 Benjamin99 wrote:
Seriously the The old BW team liquid legacy is like a cancer to the growth of starcraft 2 as a global esport Even though you are such a low minority but very loud
Could not say it better. If you want to watch koreans winning everything you could still watch: WCS KR (GSL) WCS Finals DH IEM What? I never even played BW and I'm fine with Koreans winning The only people who like Koreans are filthy BW elitists those accursed old men holding esports back for the young generations. Nice hyperbole fusilero. I know the truth hurt sometimes. But a good friend will tell you the truth it no matter if you don't like to hear it. I love you baby never change <3. On another note I dunno how people can say MVP/ForGG/MMA hurt WCS EU surely they created a better storyline like what's the storyline for Euro on Euro action who's the best in Europe? I guess that's alright but this whole Europe holds while silly as fuck was a cool thing that ran through the tournament could Europe defeat those three proven champions of Korea here for the money. For ForGG and MMA the answer was yes. For MVP it was no that's a storyline. WCS NA had a cool storyline of NA trying to scrape what it could from the horde of Koreans (Ty axiom/quantic/EG/TL) do you think drunkenbonjwa would have gotten 1% of the attention he did if he didn't beat miya or theognis if he didn't beat jaedong. While I get complaints that Korea could negate a region I think entirely locking it would be silly perhaps enforce staying to make people commit but I think the Koreans actually enhanced the regions.
I agree 100%
I think the games were better, the storylines were better (TLO's run is an AMAZING storyline tbh).
Removing ALL Koreans and locking them all to Korea hurts the overall skill of the game, it hurts the storylines (especially for EU), and it hurts Korea as well (too densely packed with talent atm).
It's fine if the Korean players have to commit more though - like Polt has by studying in America.
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On May 27 2013 06:16 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:10 Benjamin99 wrote:On May 27 2013 06:09 Fusilero wrote:On May 27 2013 06:07 Antylamon wrote:On May 27 2013 06:06 Gr33d wrote:On May 27 2013 06:04 Benjamin99 wrote:
Seriously the The old BW team liquid legacy is like a cancer to the growth of starcraft 2 as a global esport Even though you are such a low minority but very loud
Could not say it better. If you want to watch koreans winning everything you could still watch: WCS KR (GSL) WCS Finals DH IEM What? I never even played BW and I'm fine with Koreans winning The only people who like Koreans are filthy BW elitists those accursed old men holding esports back for the young generations. Nice hyperbole fusilero. I know the truth hurt sometimes. But a good friend will tell you the truth it no matter if you don't like to hear it. I love you baby never change <3. On another note I dunno how people can say MVP/ForGG/MMA hurt WCS EU surely they created a better storyline like what's the storyline for Euro on Euro action who's the best in Europe? I guess that's alright but this whole Europe holds while silly as fuck was a cool thing that ran through the tournament could Europe defeat those three proven champions of Korea here for the money. For ForGG and MMA the answer was yes. For MVP it was no that's a storyline. WCS NA had a cool storyline of NA trying to scrape what it could from the horde of Koreans (Ty axiom/quantic/EG/TL) do you think drunkenbonjwa would have gotten 1% of the attention he did if he didn't beat miya or theognis if he didn't beat jaedong. While I get complaints that Korea could negate a region I think entirely locking it would be silly perhaps enforce staying to make people commit but I think the Koreans actually enhanced the regions.
Well we all agree that a few Koreans as foils to highlight foreigners is good (WCS EU). But isn't the point is it just doesn't work anymore when there's too many foils (WCS NA) ?
Guys you are complaining about the wrong WCS...
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pls stop this discussion about koreans or not in wcs eu. EU /America refers to the Region, in which the Server is placed, and the place its regional offline finals will be held.
Wcs means WORLD Champion ship, and as there are 3 server regions, the tourneys are hold on this 3 servers. There is absolutely no tie to nationality for the players, in this tourney.
If u would like to have it a nation-based process, with national teams playing, than u should write that in a letter to blizzard, who is the main financial hoster of WCS.
They actually tried last year, there were a wcs for canada, one for US, one for sweden, one for spain, one for germany and so on, all on very low price money, little viewers and of really low quality and importance. Generally , this approach worked out really badly, with really bad players beeing able to sneak into the wcs finals, with no chance of competition in the real thing later on.
This is why Blizzard made this big overhowl this year, and decided to not hold 20 + different, nation based qualifiers, but only 3 region wides.
The participants are allowed to choose their region, and are forced to stick with it. What came out of this, was AWESOME entertainment, at least in Europe, were reliable Internet and a generally more developed e-sports community reside.
Now Europe sends a German, ForGG, a Korean that is on a French Team and lives in france for over a year, an Ukrainian, a French, and a 4time gsl winner Korean, an absolute superstar in sc2. What could be better than that, from a random Europion pov?
NA, mainly USA needs to catch up in this, as their internet infrastructure is worse, the availability of broadband internet is not as good, and generelly the e-sports affinity of the popultion is lower, due to simple fact, that USA needs to catchup with widespread high quality internet. There is a big gap in the development of technical infrastructure, which results in and declares the difference in the develeopment of the esports- scenes. (i never heard of good counterstrike teams in US, while in Europe, there were 100s of tourneys and cups and leages, reaching back to late 1990s, my esl account dates back to 1998, where i started with quake 2 / counterstrike claning matches).
About internationality in sports:
Bayern München won Championsleage finals yesterday. They had 8 nations in their playing team, borussias team consisted of people from 7 nations. If u count non-playing players too, this would even go higher. Multinationalism and Pluralism in society is not necessary a bad thing, i love to be able to eat italian pizza, living in germany, while i was born in austria.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On May 27 2013 06:19 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:16 Fusilero wrote:On May 27 2013 06:10 Benjamin99 wrote:On May 27 2013 06:09 Fusilero wrote:On May 27 2013 06:07 Antylamon wrote:On May 27 2013 06:06 Gr33d wrote:On May 27 2013 06:04 Benjamin99 wrote:
Seriously the The old BW team liquid legacy is like a cancer to the growth of starcraft 2 as a global esport Even though you are such a low minority but very loud
Could not say it better. If you want to watch koreans winning everything you could still watch: WCS KR (GSL) WCS Finals DH IEM What? I never even played BW and I'm fine with Koreans winning The only people who like Koreans are filthy BW elitists those accursed old men holding esports back for the young generations. Nice hyperbole fusilero. I know the truth hurt sometimes. But a good friend will tell you the truth it no matter if you don't like to hear it. I love you baby never change <3. On another note I dunno how people can say MVP/ForGG/MMA hurt WCS EU surely they created a better storyline like what's the storyline for Euro on Euro action who's the best in Europe? I guess that's alright but this whole Europe holds while silly as fuck was a cool thing that ran through the tournament could Europe defeat those three proven champions of Korea here for the money. For ForGG and MMA the answer was yes. For MVP it was no that's a storyline. WCS NA had a cool storyline of NA trying to scrape what it could from the horde of Koreans (Ty axiom/quantic/EG/TL) do you think drunkenbonjwa would have gotten 1% of the attention he did if he didn't beat miya or theognis if he didn't beat jaedong. While I get complaints that Korea could negate a region I think entirely locking it would be silly perhaps enforce staying to make people commit but I think the Koreans actually enhanced the regions. never will hehe:D They don't like Dodgin said this is good for the EU scene. But is because Europe is very isolated. What´s being done to the NA scene is a travesty. Anyway been a great day today for starcraft so lets enjoy that and discuss all this crap l8r:D
I get your point I do actually agree with what happened to WCS NA was silly which is why I suggested enforcing staying in the region you want to participate in (Like polt or MMA did) I think locking them out just cripples the Korea vs the world story that's omnipresent in starcraft.
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EPT
