Is the « spoiler fear » hurting E-sports ? - Page 35

We are currently talking about this issue in the mod forum. We take this issue very seriously, and want to find the best way to serve those who want faster results, and those that don't wish to be spoiled.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

October 13 2011 19:26 GMT

#681

On October 14 2011 04:21 alwaid wrote:
I think what we really need is some TL Staff to voice opinions on this since, ultimately, it is up to them what is represented on the front page of TL.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=274690&currentpage=32#629

Already voiced.

firalol

United States51 Posts

October 13 2011 19:39 GMT

#682

The way I look at it is, if I was to win a big event. I would want my face plastered all over the front page of the biggest starcraft sites out there. It's a big accomplishment and deserves such treatment.

Blasterion

China10272 Posts

October 13 2011 19:47 GMT

#683

On October 14 2011 03:54 xBillehx wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 14 2011 03:48 dtz wrote:

On October 14 2011 03:35 xBillehx wrote:

On October 14 2011 03:30 dtz wrote:

On October 14 2011 03:24 xBillehx wrote:

On October 14 2011 03:21 dtz wrote:

On October 14 2011 03:12 xBillehx wrote:

On October 14 2011 02:34 Blasterion wrote:
when IPL3 ended I wanted to see a liquid write up with Stephano with a big smile on his face. I got nothing, because of spoiler fear....such a pity. This is definitely hurting eSports

This has nothing to do with spoiler fear. Waxangel was at IPL3 (you know, the chief editor of TL) and now he's at IEM. You want a write-up quicker? Write it yourself, send it in, or post it yourself. TL does NOT delay articles because of spoilers. It's done when it's done, and since most of their work is done by VOLUNTEERS to a standard they set it's not done as quick as paid writers would have it. Stop blaming spoiler fear for slow news articles.

http://www.teamliquidpro.com/news/2011/10/09/ipl3-origins-one-day-more

By tree.hugger 12:36 October 09 2011.

News written in the middle of the IPL. Saying current TL does not have fast/instant slow news = inaccurate. What people want are for these headlines not to be spoiler - free and is shown more prominently to give more exposure.

Theres no article on Stephano winning IPL, which the poster I quoted claimed was because of spoiler fear. TeamliquidPro is strictly for the Teamliquid team & tree.hugger is pretty much the main writer there. Unless you've got a writer claiming they hold off on posting articles for big events because of spoiler fear then the OP, and your argument about spoilers affecting esports is pretty much moot.

Isn't the IPL thing with Stephano just an example though? TeamLiquid Pro News are esports news as well no?

No, TeamliquidPro is the teams news site only. Like Complexity's site for Complexity news, myeg.net for EG news, etc. TeamliquidPro follows the team only. All other news goes through either Featured News or Community News. Therefor an IPL writeup would be in either one of those, but it's just not done yet.

The OP talks about articles/quick updates not being written at all because of spoiler fear. (as do many of the people I quote and argue with) There's simply no source to this, because TL doesn't hold off on articles for spoilers. (as your example even shows) However it seems you're arguing that headlines are unable to be engaging without spoiling results, which is entirely different and I simply disagree with that.

But how do you propose we do quick updates/news without it being a spoiler yet maintain its impact. A lot of casual visitors need the news to hit them in the face without clicking anything. So something like IPL3 Concludes : Click here for the winner won't have nearly the same impact as IPL 3 Concludes : Stephano Dominates with pictures of him holding a trophy and everything.

"Unexpected IPL3 Winner Dominates in an Amazing Fashion" works just fine, and the pictures can be in the actual post. This is for things that are within 24 hours. If it's after, which I really think should be fine for casual visitors then by all means I don't think spoilers should be protected. To these new visitors does it really matter whether the event ended 4 hours ago or 1 day ago?

The hype will feel lackluster, besides why should we who watch the events live, be punished by the inconvinience of others

Klogon

MURICA15980 Posts

October 13 2011 19:57 GMT

#684

I go to my TV to watch football or my DVR recorded soccer games.
I go to ESPN.com for sports news.

I go to TL.net to watch SC2 live or find links to VODs.
I go to TL.net for esports news.

--

Now throw in the fact that we are an international site with many timezones and schedules.

Is the difference clear enough there? As the hub for both the viewing experience and the news, the only way we can accommodate both is if we keep the front page spoiler free for at least some time.

As far as spoilers go? Yes, they are a big deal. If you spoil something for me somewhere where you were not supposed to, I would probably ban you. I am the type of person who does not watch trailers for movies because it spoils 2 minutes of the movie for me. Some people care a lot and it detracts from the viewing experience. I'd even go as far as to say spoilering the results ahead of time would be hurting esports more by not allowing the delayed viewers the same epic experience as the live viewers.

And no, this is not hurting ESPORTS.

Junichi

Germany1056 Posts

October 13 2011 19:57 GMT

#685

I voted simply yes. (Edit: Though I don't think it hurts pro-gaming, I think it is more of a minor point. I just think results should be on the front page.) I think the additional spoilerfree vod link site would be nice, for those who want it, but it would be unfair to lay such a burden on the tl.net staff. If they want to do such a thing: great, if not: very understandable and still ok.

In my opinion it should be ok to talk about results as soon as they happened, I don't really feel the same excitement when I watch the VOD of a tournament, even if I don't know who won, as opposed to watching it live. So if one is not able to watch live, because of time zone differences, that's just bad luck and he shouldn't expect everyone else to spoil-tag their posts, just so he and a few others won't get spoiled.

xBillehx

United States1289 Posts

October 13 2011 20:03 GMT

#686

On October 14 2011 04:47 Blasterion wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 14 2011 03:54 xBillehx wrote:

On October 14 2011 03:48 dtz wrote:

On October 14 2011 03:35 xBillehx wrote:

On October 14 2011 03:30 dtz wrote:

On October 14 2011 03:24 xBillehx wrote:

On October 14 2011 03:21 dtz wrote:

On October 14 2011 03:12 xBillehx wrote:

Isn't the IPL thing with Stephano just an example though? TeamLiquid Pro News are esports news as well no?

The hype will feel lackluster, besides why should we who watch the events live, be punished by the inconvinience of others

If by inconvenience you mean actual lives, work, school and hell, just living on the other side of the planet that which they have no control over then I dunno what to tell you. One day of waiting, posting hype in LR threads, fanclubs, and politely marked threads (all of which those wary of spoilers avoid properly) sounds a hell of a lot less rude than ruining other's enjoyment of the games because you must spam new topics immediately.

The hype will feel lackluster? Really? I thought we were talking about casual visitors here, people just getting interested in e-Sports. I find it hard to believe people who don't even know who Stephano is would be more hyped for a title saying "Stephano Dominates" over one talking about an unexpected winner dominating in an amazing fashion.

+ Show Spoiler +

For the record I catch nearly every event live, even the GSL at 5am in the morning, so I'm hardly affected by spoilers. The difference is I respect my fellow TL members enough to be polite and wait a day for them to catch up, all the meanwhile I'm able to read/post about the games in LR threads, fanclubs and spoiler marked discussion threads. If I can do this why can't you?

Edit: An addition for the newer users around here: TL Commandment #2, fourth bullet down.

TimeSpiral

United States1010 Posts

October 13 2011 20:13 GMT

#687

I've not done a study on this but I'd say a majority of consumption is done with VODs.

Any system that is primary VOD based, and one's enjoyment comes from ignorance of the result, having a spoiler free environment is paramount.

It is not ruining anything. The behavior you see on various sites is a product of the way the information / activity is consumed.

OmyVi

United States137 Posts

October 13 2011 20:14 GMT

#688

Personally, I'd like to see results for the 'major' tournaments on the front page.. IPL, NASL, MLG, GSL... etc.

Spoilers are for little girls that dont appreciate the WAY the game was won, the final result is much less interesting in my opinion.

Mithriel

Netherlands2969 Posts

October 13 2011 20:23 GMT

#689

It comes down to prereference. Personally i would like to have results on mainpage with nice pictures.

First thing I do in morning is check all results I missed, then at work I follow live reports of gsl. When I get home I check whichever game sounded cool on vod.

But guess that's just me

TimeSpiral

United States1010 Posts

October 13 2011 20:25 GMT

#690

On October 14 2011 05:14 OmyVi wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see results for the 'major' tournaments on the front page.. IPL, NASL, MLG, GSL... etc.

Spoilers are for little girls that dont appreciate the WAY the game was won, the final result is much less interesting in my opinion.

Your signature disqualifies you from having a legitimate opinion.

+ Show Spoiler +

Top 4 in the History of GSL by race, Zerg:13 Protoss:14 Terran:41 ... WTF

+ Show Spoiler +

I'm obviously trolling you. + Show Spoiler +

How far will you go! + Show Spoiler +

Terran is OP, bro. + Show Spoiler +

Really? + Show Spoiler +

Kiangani

United States122 Posts

October 13 2011 20:25 GMT

#691

If you really don't want spoilers, stay the fuck off Starcraft related websites. How hard is that?

GusTreta

Canada5 Posts

October 13 2011 20:32 GMT

#692

On October 14 2011 05:13 TimeSpiral wrote:
I've not done a study on this but I'd say a majority of consumption is done with VODs.

Any system that is primary VOD based, and one's enjoyment comes from ignorance of the result, having a spoiler free environment is paramount.

It is not ruining anything. The behavior you see on various sites is a product of the way the information / activity is consumed.

Your claim that "having a spoiler free environment is paramount" seems to be the view of the minority, looking at the poll results (as of this posting, 86% of people think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea, out of 3590 votes).

This study also seems to suggest otherwise:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/08/spoilers-dont-spoil-anything/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: wired/index (Wired: Index 3 (Top Stories 2))

Klogon

MURICA15980 Posts

October 13 2011 20:50 GMT

#693

On October 14 2011 05:25 Kiangani wrote:
If you really don't want spoilers, stay the fuck off Starcraft related websites. How hard is that?

Except for the fact you need to visit Starcraft related websites to both hear about them and then watch the games?

I'm done with this thread because I feel like I am going to flip a shit if I keep replying to posts.

fortheGG

United Kingdom1002 Posts

October 13 2011 20:51 GMT

#694

On October 13 2011 23:34 Jibba wrote:

Show nested quote +

There is no spoiler policy in LR threads, unless it was a leaked result such as with IPL1.

There's a difference between a spoiler free section, and putting all the news on the front page. People who get less "hyped" because they don't see a picture on the front are hardly what I would consider great ESPORTS fans.

Show nested quote +

Then volunteer to be a writer and make it? The delay in coverage has nothing to do with the spoiler policy.

If you want instant results, there's Liquipedia and the LR thread. Aside from that, you just wait 24 hours before talking about it openly outside of the LR thread.

Could you include Jibba's point in the OP. I really feel that you do not use LR threads or Liquidpedia.

Fission

Canada1184 Posts

October 13 2011 20:53 GMT

#695

This thread seems like a waste - the mods clearly do not want results on the front page right away, no amount of polls will change that.

KillerPlague

United States1386 Posts

October 13 2011 20:54 GMT

#696

I don't mind spoilers in the slightest. As far as the growth of Esports being effected due to fear of spoilers...I don't think it is the biggest issue. If people want to know they just click on a spoiler link...

Logros

Netherlands9913 Posts

October 13 2011 21:08 GMT

#697

On October 14 2011 05:50 Klogon wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yes this is a point a lot of people seem to miss O.o. TL is the place to go if you want to find VODs of whatever tournament or to even find out if the tournament has taken place already.

MoreSore

Ireland73 Posts

October 13 2011 21:13 GMT

#698

I think the results should be posted on the main page, that way the winners can get insta fame in a way, helps the players and esports grow in my opinion

Xodushai

Sweden174 Posts

October 13 2011 21:20 GMT

#699

I agree, the whole "no spoilers" thing is so exaggurated, in my opinion it's all about watching games live. Watching vods just takes away so mych of the exitement.

Beece

United States62 Posts

October 13 2011 21:28 GMT

#700

I get a little weary of all these "____ is harmful to e-sports" threads -_-

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