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Is the « spoiler fear » hurting E-sports ? - Page 33

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We are currently talking about this issue in the mod forum. We take this issue very seriously, and want to find the best way to serve those who want faster results, and those that don't wish to be spoiled.
ChoboCop
Profile Joined July 2004
United States954 Posts
October 13 2011 15:21 GMT
#641
More frontpage results news please!
Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered.
OneThreeOne
Profile Joined November 2010
Norway86 Posts
October 13 2011 15:23 GMT
#642
I totally agree with the OP, never quite understood all the fuss about spoilers.
R0YAL
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1768 Posts
October 13 2011 15:25 GMT
#643
On October 13 2011 23:27 AimlessAmoeba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 23:24 R0YAL wrote:
On October 13 2011 22:45 SolidMustard wrote:

Poll: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ?

Yes (4507)
 
86%

No (386)
 
7%

Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible. (364)
 
7%

5257 total votes

Your vote: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible.




Wow, that's quite a one-sided poll ! Hopin' TL staff sees that !

uhh TL already does articles covering tournaments on the front page.. I don't understand this.


Yeah but the thing is the big "results updates" are always days, sometimes a week after a huge tournament. There is STILL no writeup on Stephano's big win on the front page, and he's like the first foreigner to ever beat out that many Koreans in a tournament. Ever.

The results are almost immediately posted. There is usually a designated thread for the big tournaments that get updated reguarly and a more reliable source is Liquipedia. Basically everything Starcraft related from ever is on Liquipedia. IPL results? Liquipedia. Anyone who wants to immediately find out can and everyone else is obviously willing to wait a couple weeks for the very well-written article on the front page.


On October 13 2011 23:44 SolidMustard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 23:24 R0YAL wrote:
On October 13 2011 22:45 SolidMustard wrote:

Poll: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ?

Yes (4507)
 
86%

No (386)
 
7%

Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible. (364)
 
7%

5257 total votes

Your vote: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible.




Wow, that's quite a one-sided poll ! Hopin' TL staff sees that !

uhh TL already does articles covering tournaments on the front page.. I don't understand this.


Yeah, their big articles are always great, but they are only BEFORE the tournaments actually happen. I think it's really bad that you still see the announcement article on front page once the tourney is over, there should be (in my ideal TL.net ^^) an article bringing the results AND drawing conclusions, and stuff, just like for any regular sport (as already pointed out)

Like this, this, or this?
These are all within the last two weeks.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
xBillehx
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-13 15:44:25
October 13 2011 15:28 GMT
#644
On October 14 2011 00:14 drcatellino wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 23:58 xBillehx wrote:
On October 13 2011 23:44 SolidMustard wrote:
On October 13 2011 23:24 R0YAL wrote:
On October 13 2011 22:45 SolidMustard wrote:

Poll: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ?

Yes (4507)
 
86%

No (386)
 
7%

Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible. (364)
 
7%

5257 total votes

Your vote: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible.




Wow, that's quite a one-sided poll ! Hopin' TL staff sees that !

uhh TL already does articles covering tournaments on the front page.. I don't understand this.


Yeah, their big articles are always great, but they are only BEFORE the tournaments actually happen. I think it's really bad that you still see the announcement article on front page once the tourney is over, there should be (in my ideal TL.net ^^) an article bringing the results AND drawing conclusions, and stuff, just like for any regular sport (as already pointed out)

So contribute. 95% of TL content is done by volunteers, community members just like you and I. People are bitching that not enough write-ups happen and the frequency of them when it has absolutely nothing to do with a spoiler policy. A good writer doesn't need to spoil results in the title to pull in readers, and a simple warning at the top of the OP is enough to stop spoiler whining because hey, they were warned.

I’ve seen you repeat the same thing all over the thread, I think I should be addressing your points. I am not bitching about TL’s quality of work. I am not saying the huge tournament wrap-up we usually see 5-6 days after the events should just be magically appearing right away, I know it is not possible, but this is not what I am expecting.

I am talking about short news possibly with a picture, with a very quick overview of the player who won, who he fought, what he won, where, etc. And then you can simply give link to stream/tournament thread/bracket, wherever the viewer can find more information about it. I think this would be good to help casual viewers get interested/hyped. And it doesn’t require a huge deal of work. The complete wrap-up can still come a few days later, I absolutely don’t mind this.

But straight news/ in-depth analysis is not the same thing. The first can be put on easily while the other should be refined and not rushed just after a tournament is done.

And this is not bitching the TL team or site like you are pretending, I love this place and I come here every day. This is just my vision to make e-sports maybe a little more hyped for those who are not yet totally into it like us. And of course whatever TL does I’ll still come here.

So do what you're suggesting yourself. I have absolutely no problem with people providing short writeups, I've even helped suggest someone willing to do that in this very thread. Suggest stuff if you want but don't expect it or complain like nuts if you're not willing to contribute and attempt writing yourself. And that's beside the fact that it has absolutely nothing to do with a spoiler policy like your OP makes it out to be. TL isn't delaying content or purposely not doing content to prevent spoilers. Content like what you're talking about can be done at any time by volunteers which is what the majority of TL staff is. It's definitely possible to create an engaging title without spoiling or tossing in a warning up at the top before your OP, but what you're complaining about is these things aren't even done and you think it's not done simply because TL staff doesn't want to spoil, which I think is incorrect in the first place. (Jibba said this as well)
Taengoo ♥
SolidMustard
Profile Joined May 2011
France1515 Posts
October 13 2011 15:32 GMT
#645
On October 14 2011 00:25 R0YAL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 23:27 AimlessAmoeba wrote:
On October 13 2011 23:24 R0YAL wrote:
On October 13 2011 22:45 SolidMustard wrote:

Poll: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ?

Yes (4507)
 
86%

No (386)
 
7%

Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible. (364)
 
7%

5257 total votes

Your vote: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible.




Wow, that's quite a one-sided poll ! Hopin' TL staff sees that !

uhh TL already does articles covering tournaments on the front page.. I don't understand this.


Yeah but the thing is the big "results updates" are always days, sometimes a week after a huge tournament. There is STILL no writeup on Stephano's big win on the front page, and he's like the first foreigner to ever beat out that many Koreans in a tournament. Ever.

The results are almost immediately posted. There is usually a designated thread for the big tournaments that get updated reguarly and a more reliable source is Liquipedia. Basically everything Starcraft related from ever is on Liquipedia. IPL results? Liquipedia. Anyone who wants to immediately find out can and everyone else is obviously willing to wait a couple weeks for the very well-written article on the front page.


Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 23:44 SolidMustard wrote:
On October 13 2011 23:24 R0YAL wrote:
On October 13 2011 22:45 SolidMustard wrote:

Poll: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ?

Yes (4507)
 
86%

No (386)
 
7%

Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible. (364)
 
7%

5257 total votes

Your vote: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible.




Wow, that's quite a one-sided poll ! Hopin' TL staff sees that !

uhh TL already does articles covering tournaments on the front page.. I don't understand this.


Yeah, their big articles are always great, but they are only BEFORE the tournaments actually happen. I think it's really bad that you still see the announcement article on front page once the tourney is over, there should be (in my ideal TL.net ^^) an article bringing the results AND drawing conclusions, and stuff, just like for any regular sport (as already pointed out)

Like this, this, or this?
These are all within the last two weeks.



These are exactly the kind of articles I'd love to see more often and with less delay, but some replies made me realize that this shit has to be written, and that's probably why there is such a difference with real sports sites, I guess : people get paid to write sports article, TL writters don't :-(
makk
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom132 Posts
October 13 2011 15:45 GMT
#646
Every sports website has spoilers all over their homepage.. I don't see why TL should be any different
Z-R0E
Profile Joined April 2009
United States147 Posts
October 13 2011 16:07 GMT
#647
I think putting the champion on the front page is fine, but I would hate to see the community move away from <spoiler>'ing non-championship game results. Worded differently: If I'm unable to watch a tournament live, I can accept that the championship will be spoiled for me by visiting TeamLiquid for the sake of hype, but I'd still want to be able to watch other matches I missed from the tournament without knowing the outcome of every game.
The Z-g0d http://atZinc.org
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
October 13 2011 16:27 GMT
#648
On October 14 2011 01:07 Z-R0E wrote:
I think putting the champion on the front page is fine, but I would hate to see the community move away from <spoiler>'ing non-championship game results. Worded differently: If I'm unable to watch a tournament live, I can accept that the championship will be spoiled for me by visiting TeamLiquid for the sake of hype, but I'd still want to be able to watch other matches I missed from the tournament without knowing the outcome of every game.


Yes, that's what everybody on the Yes poll thinks, we want to celebrate the winner, we know we missed the live stream, we just want closure to the excitement. Like running a marathon and finding no one greeting me at the finishing line and being huddled into a black van because of ZOMG SPOILERZ.

Can't we act like normal people? As in, I miss the live event but the world must bend to my need to watch it "live". I find that fucking weird... Like children playing a game of "let's pretend that never happened and be excited as if the event is unfolding before our very eyes".
Cauterize the area
Ohmboy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States61 Posts
October 13 2011 16:51 GMT
#649
There are teamliquid.net coverage portals for almost every major event. I believe those serve the purpose that everyone is looking for in this thread, aside from the "amazing write-up on the front page." I wonder how many people actually use them.
Soleron
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1324 Posts
October 13 2011 16:54 GMT
#650
I wonder how many people actually use them.


Just me, but I refresh them 100,000 times a day when the event is on*.

*May not be true.
RedZack
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany58 Posts
October 13 2011 17:00 GMT
#651
I agree with the OP.

The only reason I can think of why this would annoy me is EU re-broadcasts of IPL and NASL. But then again, I don't even watch them often enough to make this a real argument.
Parnass
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany145 Posts
October 13 2011 17:08 GMT
#652
to be frank, i really never understood the spoiler fear. Just a small prepared snippet about the two possible winners would be all that is needed, where you can plug in the true final result. Nice big announcements about upsets like the stephano game give the event the gravity it deserves. for me ipl 3 was a letdown, because i missed everything after the semifinals and the next day on reddit and tl i had to really actively look for the result instead of just seeing it clear as day ont he front page that a foreigner dominated a tournament while killing 4 ( i think) koreans.
roflSloth
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada43 Posts
October 13 2011 17:12 GMT
#653
Wow, while I voted "yes" in the poll, the poll's a lot more lopsided that I would've imagined o_O
Clafou
Profile Joined November 2010
Belgium921 Posts
October 13 2011 17:29 GMT
#654
My english is quite bad, so I'll just say that I completely agree with the OP.

Actually, when I know that a big tournament is over, I don't check teamliquid.net first, but liquipedia. In fact, I don't really care about spoilers.
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
October 13 2011 17:34 GMT
#655
when IPL3 ended I wanted to see a liquid write up with Stephano with a big smile on his face. I got nothing, because of spoiler fear....such a pity. This is definitely hurting eSports
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
GMonster
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
686 Posts
October 13 2011 17:38 GMT
#656
i personally never check tl till i watch the rest of a tournament/ catch up/ or just want to know the results. Theres always a good chance you will get spoiled on results. so as far as this poll goes i dont care either way. But i don't see TL actually doing it. THis is a community website and to say "You can't come here till you watch X tournament unless you want to be spoiled." Just doesn't seem like TL is going to do it.
GrandMaster Terran NA Server / Mod @ justin.tv/incontrol
CidO
Profile Joined June 2010
United States695 Posts
October 13 2011 17:48 GMT
#657
Isn't that the general rule of the internet?

You know, the one that says "don't look at any content related to what you're interested in if what you're interested in has something spoilable that you haven't witnessed non-spoils yet?"

You don't cry about spoils for when someone dies, you don't cry about spoils on a wiki page, you don't care about spoils for sports scores or golf results.

BUT if for some reason you do cry about those - like say, I don't want to know who won the UT / OU game last weekend till I get home from my trip. You know what I don't do? I don't expect the entire internet world to revolve around me - i just go to sites, or parts of websites, that have ntohing to do with football.

spoiler: OU crushed the shit out of UT. Spoiler crying is hurting eSports.
:P
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
October 13 2011 17:57 GMT
#658
--- Nuked ---
Yamulo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2096 Posts
October 13 2011 17:58 GMT
#659
You wouldn't check like ESPN if you didn't want to be spoiled, so I guess people will do the same for TL. People care ware to much about spoilers, especially since fan clubs are actually the biggest spoiler ever.
~~~Liquid Fighting (SC2)~~~
Ghad
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway2551 Posts
October 13 2011 18:10 GMT
#660
Agree with OP.

Spoilers in the content should totally be allowed on the front page and that should be the standard, but it would probably nice to have an optitional spoiler free frontend.
forgottendreams: One underage girl, two drunk guys, one gogo dancer and starcraft 2. Apparently just another day in Europe.
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