EPTPower Rank 05/31/2010 - Page 33
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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InRaged
1047 Posts
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
On July 01 2010 01:44 setzer wrote: Yeah he lost a few TvT's but if you watch it from the beginning, his play has just gotten worse. Losing to Ruby was sort of a fluke, but then he got thoroughly out multi-tasked by Baby and lost in the late-late game (where Flash is said to be almost unbeatable) to Skyhigh, to having a build order advantage and getting completely outplayed by Really. Out of all the TvT's he has lost this month, Skyhigh is the only player who actually has a solid TvT record. You could see in his expressions that he has lost something. Giving flash the benefit of the doubt is putting him at number #2 (pending today's results, of course). As of this month I think a case can be made that Flash is not even the best terran, as Fantasy has certainly shown he has gotten back to form, beating some very good players and qualifying for both starleagues. You had me up until here: "as of this month I think a case can be made that Flash is not even the best terran". This is just plain wrong. It's incorrect. Proleague has never determined who is the best player of any race. That is always left to the individual leagues, and Flash will remain firm in his place until another Terran can challenge him there. Unfortunately for Flash, he is so good that he is seeded into both Leagues. Thus he missed out on the opportunity to bash some newbies in the qualifiers, early rounds. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2349 Posts
On July 01 2010 02:12 TwoToneTerran wrote: Rofl, I'm okay with Flash at number 2 but you're a complete doofus if you think Fantasy is even close to Flash's level. Well, if you take current results into consideration, Fantasy won more than Flash this month. Nethertheless, I think we should give Flash some credit before we put him lower on PR. This could be just a mini-slump, not a true slump. #2 for Flash is good IMO. | ||
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Cpadolf
Sweden1199 Posts
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
On July 01 2010 02:12 TwoToneTerran wrote: Rofl, I'm okay with Flash at number 2 but you're a complete doofus if you think Fantasy is even close to Flash's level. Yeah we'll see. I am not convinced Flash will magically return to his early 2010 form like some KT fans are expecting. His confidence is definitely shaken after many ace losses and he could have kept his group with Bisu, Skyhigh and Sea but wanted an easier one. I do not remember Flash being one who brings the weakest players into his group. setzer, you probably confuse word "solid" with something else, cause all Flash's opponent this month except Ruby had "solid" vT record (unlike JD opponents). And Skyhigh's TvT record isn't solid. It's outstanding and only slightly behind Flash's. You are right with Skyhigh, but I do not consider ~50% "solid," that is more like inconsistent and mediocre. You had me up until here: "as of this month I think a case can be made that Flash is not even the best terran". This is just plain wrong. It's incorrect. Proleague has never determined who is the best player of any race. That is always left to the individual leagues, and Flash will remain firm in his place until another Terran can challenge him there. Unfortunately for Flash, he is so good that he is seeded into both Leagues. Thus he missed out on the opportunity to bash some newbies in the qualifiers, early rounds. I did say "as of this month," and you cannot argue with the performance Fantasy has shown recently. His games against all three races have been very strong with good late game management to displaying some creative cheeses. His TvZ has clearly improved and his TvT is the best it has ever been. Putting Flash over Fantasy on the power rank is giving him the benefit of the doubt, but statistic wise, Fantasy has had a much stronger month. | ||
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InRaged
1047 Posts
On July 01 2010 03:13 setzer wrote: You are right with Skyhigh, but I do not consider ~50% "solid," that is more like inconsistent and mediocre. Midas in most recent results beat Flash in Hana (that's one of 2 flash's loses there) and then beat MVP in SPL while MVP was on fire. Baby is 12-7 (63%) in 2010 with 4 loses coming from Flash and Skyhigh. Hiya is 14-7 Overall all terrans flash faced this month are in top 15 by TvT ELO (2080+ points). Judging current performance using all time win-rate isn't a good idea. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
No one in the world wants a hard starleague group. Hard groups are the easiest way to get out of a tournament because 1v1s are subject to big upsets. Also he brought Effort into his group, same way Jaedong did to Baby. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
On July 01 2010 03:55 InRaged wrote: Overall all terrans flash faced this month are in top 15 by TvT ELO (2080+ points). Judging current performance using all time win-rate isn't a good idea. Ruby's 29% TvT is in top 15 now? | ||
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hitthat
Poland2349 Posts
On July 01 2010 03:59 TwoToneTerran wrote: I wish I could make a poll that said "Who's the better Terran: Flash or Fantasy?" and somehow disbar KT fans from voting in it just to show you how lopsided the view is. Flash is better. Is this monthly PR or popularity contest? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Tempest[OEC]
United States417 Posts
On July 01 2010 04:53 Pandain wrote: When does he usually post the PR? Beginning of every month. | ||
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
On July 01 2010 03:59 TwoToneTerran wrote: I wish I could make a poll that said "Who's the better Terran: Flash or Fantasy?" and somehow disbar KT fans from voting in it just to show you how lopsided the view is. Flash is better. Period. I don't care if Fantasy did alright in PL and 2-0'd, what, Brave and Grape? Hell Flash, despite his minislump, still has better gameplay than Fantasy. No one in the world wants a hard starleague group. Hard groups are the easiest way to get out of a tournament because 1v1s are subject to big upsets. Also he brought Effort into his group, same way Jaedong did to Baby. Hey, remember when JWD put Zero higher than JD right after his OSL victory over Fantasy? Whether his logic was right or not (it was not, in my opinion), the same case can be made for Fantasy being put over Flash. Barring an upset I would still put Flash at #2 but the way Fantasy is playing, he is closer to Flash's level now then you give him credit for. Not exactly unexpected though since Fantasy has always been one of the most underrated players ... | ||
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hitthat
Poland2349 Posts
The only reason why fantasy is so underestimated by many is... ...1 single, lacking win in his previous OSL finals. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On July 01 2010 05:02 setzer wrote: Hey, remember when JWD put Zero higher than JD right after his OSL victory over Fantasy? Whether his logic was right or not (it was not, in my opinion), the same case can be made for Fantasy being put over Flash. Barring an upset I would still put Flash at #2 but the way Fantasy is playing, he is closer to Flash's level now then you give him credit for. Not exactly unexpected though since Fantasy has always been one of the most underrated players ... Fantasy is not underrated. He is frequently called the #2 terran. He is overshadowed, and it's not without reason. I could go into a long diatribe about how Fantasy has shaky mechanics, as well as nerves compared to all of Flash's great attributes, but I'm sure you'd turn it into another strawman. Don't get me started on JWD's ranks. An era best left forgotten. | ||
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Mooncat
Germany1228 Posts
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InRaged
1047 Posts
I've got lazy on this part. It gets tiring repeating "except Ruby" every time, you know ;P | ||
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Ideas
United States8179 Posts
jaedong flash fantasy sea free bisu leta great stats forgg | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
I love Fantasy, but what's this shit I'm seeing? Flash just made both SL finals at the same time and Fantasy is being proclaimed better just for producing better results in the past 10 games? TLnet is ridiculously fickle. One month ago Flash was being called God, placed above the bonjwas (lol?) and now he's not even the top Terran?  | ||
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BPCoffee
27 Posts
On June 30 2010 15:27 SuperArc wrote: if roles were reversed you'd never allow jaedong to be #1 with a negative win record this statement is sooo true | ||
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