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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 03 2013 23:21 marvellosity wrote:
Will you talk about that stuff with me, Holy?
Of course.
Let me address some glaringly silly things first.
This: + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2013 23:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Okay so, here is what i am trying to say. This is what Holyflare says about his unvoting Oats: Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 21:38 Holyflare wrote:.... OatsHe starts out with his vote on me, convinced I am scum etc etc. He has the whole debacle with BH in which nothing really happens, he defend the fact that his vote is still on me, however, does not try and question it or contemplate that anyone else could be scum. I attribute this to the fact that it was early on in the game and there was no total alternative but it still seemed a bit tunnely to me (Which he actually addressed later on when he unvoted). + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote:All those words. That dont mean anything. Show nested quote +it's the top scum play to stifle discussion. With his sure stance on me being scum and despite me resonding why I posted what I did is it not he who is in fact stifling the discussion?
I meant saying that someone is stifling discussion is what scum always like to do. Show nested quote +The fact that you say everyone else agrees with you in this thread is just testament to the fact that you have put no effort or thought into your stance and are just going with the flow to follow up for an 'easy' lynch. Everyone else thinks that you are scummy. Therefore I cant do anything more to convince people at this point of time. COME ON HOLYFLARE. STOP POSTING LONG POSTS. NOT GOOD. You and BH are probably not on the same scumteam but I have a way more sure read on you than on BH. BH, is Holyflare a noob or not? He tells me to stop posting long posts, and that the points had no merit but then unvoted me after he re-read the next day. Which I also like about him. He's not afraid to admit that he was wrong and tunnel visioned. He's posted a lot of bs about how people can be scum if someone else is scum which seemed a bit like he was foreshadowing future events ie. + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 23:59 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 23:50 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 23:19 Oatsmaster wrote:Cause its hard to see tiny little Vote FOR DUDES.  Marv you scum? Do you think he is? Hmm. Ok so another reason why I think HF is town. If marv is scum with him, then Marv wont call him town. If marv is town, marv is probably right. So both ways, HF is town I think. I think that marv is null, he hasnt shown much of anything either way. I think Oats is making points about people that were original (ie. risen, although they work both ways) and he has stuck to Dirkzor, which I think was good seeing as people seemingly dismissed everything about him. I honestly think a lynch on oats would be a bad thing at this current point in time. I know my vote was/is on him but that was because I had been called out urgently yesterday and I apologise. Later on he says he unvoted Oats because of his detunnel and because it is reasonable. Okay, this is cool and everything, except for: Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
I read/detunneled.
##vote Dirkzor
also sheeping marv is cool.
Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 01:18 Holyflare wrote:.... As for oats, On October 02 2013 23:59 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 23:50 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 23:19 Oatsmaster wrote:Cause its hard to see tiny little Vote FOR DUDES. Marv you scum? Do you think he is? Hmm. Ok so another reason why I think HF is town. If marv is scum with him, then Marv wont call him town. If marv is town, marv is probably right. So both ways, HF is town I think. I think that marv is null, he hasnt shown much of anything either way. That's ridiculous wifom and adds nothing to the entire topic. I don't like it one bit. Especially coupled with, On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
I read/detunneled.
##vote Dirkzor
also sheeping marv is cool.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 13:35 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 13:33 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:29 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 13:28 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:26 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 13:23 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:20 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:16 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 13:15 Blazinghand wrote:
[quote]
What's your read on Risen? null ~~ town Why? Cause he doesnt hop on the RNG lynch wagon. And cause he called Holyflare scum. I personally do not find either of these reasons compelling. A decision to hop or not hop on the RNG lynch wagon is dependent on personal ideas about how useful RNG is, and whether or not it paints someone as scummy depends on their reasoning and history, not the simple fact that they did or did not hop on. Calling holyflare scum, likewise, is not in and of itself a good strat. I too don't like holyflare's play, but you think I am scum, and it is almost certainly because of my interactions with holyflare. Instead of calling him a newb card player and voting him, as risen did, without serious explanation and an attempt to help him, I actually interacted with him seriously. playing the newb card is also something newbies do. the optimal response is mine, not risen's. Mine determines holyflare's alignment. Risen did not attempt to suss out what was up with holyflare. he laid some smackdown, but hasn't seriously followed it up. Where is he in convincing me to vote holyflare as I interact with holyflare? After all, he thinks holyflare is scum, no? I find risen scummy for that reason. I think you're scum for pulling the RNG bullshit again. I didnt attempt to find out what was up with holyflare, I laid some smackdown! So am I scum for that too? Holyflare is scum because he instantly jumps on a policy and then writes a whole bunch of stuff saying he is a noob. Without actually saying those words. Yes, that's a scummy thing you did. Are you claiming it's not scummy? Your goal, especially in a small newbie like this, should be to interact and find out more about him, unless you're so clearly sure he's scum that you're done with him. Im very clearly sure he's scum. Also, you know there are pressure votes? And I can change my vote at any time? So its not like once I vote for him, I cant change my mind. So yeah, I dunno why you are calling me and Risen scum because we have scumreads we are willing to vote on. Why isnt Holyflare interacting with me if he called me scum then? I don't see how your vote being a pressure vote means that you can't write a case, try to convince people, or hell, try to interact with the guy you're supposedly pressuring. Of course you can change your mind! The fact that you and Risen are scummy (and i'm not 100% sure that either of you are scum, of course) isn't that you vote, it's HOW you vote. Do you understand this? On October 02 2013 13:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
Since when does BH play self righteous dick?
As any alignment?
So you thing this is... null? or are you just whining. I dont understand how you equate having a extreme stance on someone from their first post = scummy. Both me and Risen explained reasons to think that Holyflare is scum and you seem to think that Holyflare is scummy too. WHAT THE FUCK IS THERE TO CONVINCE YOU ABOUT ?? ? ? ?? ? I dont know if you are bad or if you are scum BH. Dirkzor had "an extreme stance on a first post" but it's ok to vote him now for it? Especially as you now say: On October 03 2013 00:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
Man both Marv and Clarity are saying the exact same things. If you agree with Marv on his vote, why is it such a factor to you that someone else agrees with it so openly? At least he has put forth reasoning into his voting, even if it is similar to marvs. Yours just straight up changed until you were pressured to post why you switched and even then you haven't told us why you are voting dirk? This can't be a reason for his unvote, because he does not unvote before now. He even quotes Oats' post where Oats "detunnels", and does not say it's good or anything. He only says it later on, when the thread sentiment is not in favor of lynching Oats anymore! Also his reasons for voting for Oats are bad in the first place. ##Unvote:
##Vote: Holyflare
This is 100% sentiment to the fact that you have not read the thread or where posts are located in the thread instead you have just confirmation biased your way into a vote. You quote the post where I mention oats vote on dirkzor. I in no way have implied that I did not like "oh i've de-tunneled" in fact, the spoiler underneath quotes the post that I was referencing that vote on dirkzor on. It was in reference to the point that oats made about people with an aggressive first post vote shouldn't be voted on but then he voted on Dirk anyway. I found this hypocrtical. However, within the next post Oats had already explained himself.
I found oats to be scummy but on further analysis when I returned (I can't be here all the time???) I re-read peoples filters and this that is where the big post is. If you are getting at me for not keeping my vote on oats, I don't know why, he is CLEARLY the least scummy out of the ones that people have been referencing and not worthy of a vote IMO today. My post while big, is an attempt to get people to focus on the things that matter.
You say:
On October 03 2013 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 22:01 marvellosity wrote:
rayn, why are you going after Holy now when you've shown no incliniation to go after him before he came back to the thread?
I don't understand. Because i tend to interact with people who are in thread. I'm impatient to wait for answers for hours, i have a train of thought and i want to disclose it with quick back and forth discussion. That's what i always do.
but I just made a post on voting and who people should vote for which you are either deflecting from for some reason or have other ideas. You don't need to wait for people to discuss points that people have brought up. Discussion is discussion which leads to questions which lead to answers. If you don't discuss other points you're left with a 1 track point of discussion which in the end may lead to nothing.
As for the question I have not answered, which one are you implying?? I've been answering what you have asked there is nothing wishy-washy about it.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Holy, I'm finding the whole discussion between you and rayn exceedingly difficult to follow. Talk to me like I'm a babe in the woods.
On October 03 2013 23:16 marvellosity wrote:
rayn, just to clarify - you think Holyflare is mafia because
1) at the time that Oats unvoted, Holyflare thought it was a crock of shit
2) later on, Holyflare said he liked the fact that Oats unvoted?
That's the meat of it, right?
Can you explain to me really simply why what I've written here is untrue? Like, succintly in a couple of sentences. That way I can try to grasp what's going on and read what you've written better.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Let me lay this out really simply for you in case you still don't get it:
1. Started with RNG
2. Developed concerns that Oats was not willing to discuss anything.
3. Oats dropped his case on me after he said he was tunelling/like what I posted.
4. Addresses my concerns but still seems a little fishy - more of a null read but still one of the scummy people
5. Analyse rest of people - Oats is no longer most scummy
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Now, if you can't get your head around that I'd REALLY like to discuss actual people who may be scum!?
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On October 04 2013 00:02 Holyflare wrote:
Now, if you can't get your head around that I'd REALLY like to discuss actual people who may be scum!?
Do you have a read on rayn after this push on you?
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 04 2013 00:03 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:02 Holyflare wrote:
Now, if you can't get your head around that I'd REALLY like to discuss actual people who may be scum!? Do you have a read on rayn after this push on you?
Yes, he's wasted 7 pages on me discussing a vote on oats instead of addressing what other people have been talking about. I make a post and he deviates to asking me about the early game. Why? I'm not sure. He starts off by not saying anything and then contrary to his previous game cases he has made a post that lists his thoughts on people rather than actual cases. His case he made on me was indicative of someone who did not read around the posts he was making a case on and has deflected from discussion that I think would have been more appropriate especially concerning the thread sentiment at the moment.
Scummy? I'm not sure. Confirmation biased. Yes.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
He also mentioned in his post on everyone that:
HolyFlare: I don't like his vote still being on Oats. Afaik i understand it's because of RNG, which is not in fact rng for him. Other than that he has made some good observations, then nothing.
He calls my observations good but in the past few pages has been saying they were terrible.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Holy, why is what i posted up there wrong? I need you just to clear it up for me.
You seemed to think his unvote post at the time was bad, later you thought it was ok? is that not the case or what?
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Holyflare, incorrect.
Why do people try to incorrectly meta me lately?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
What's meta got to do with it?
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On October 04 2013 00:07 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:03 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 04 2013 00:02 Holyflare wrote:
Now, if you can't get your head around that I'd REALLY like to discuss actual people who may be scum!? Do you have a read on rayn after this push on you? Yes, he's wasted 7 pages on me discussing a vote on oats instead of addressing what other people have been talking about. I make a post and he deviates to asking me about the early game. Why? I'm not sure. He starts off by not saying anything and then contrary to his previous game cases he has made a post that lists his thoughts on people rather than actual cases. His case he made on me was indicative of someone who did not read around the posts he was making a case on and has deflected from discussion that I think would have been more appropriate especially concerning the thread sentiment at the moment. Scummy? I'm not sure. Confirmation biased. Yes.
Let's debunk a lie here. My one of the first posts in Titanic:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 29 2013 04:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Oatsmaster - Has about 25% of the posts in this game. When Oats posts shitton he is town. Is also making sense. Vivax - Has good posts and trying to figre out stuff. On the other hand i feel like something is not right here. I have no idea what it is but i think Vivax is worth looking more closely into. Clarity_nl - Definitely yown. I like his thought process on like everything. Is pushing his reads and doing that hard. IMCaptainJackSparrow - Town, pretty sure of it. His exchange with exarezee was interesting and he came out of it much better looking. I think he should let Oats go and find a mafia target instead. It's not so hard to see Oats is town. Paperscraps - Posting feel genuine and he had good points until his last post. This one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=26#501 , where he says he should not explain why his read on Oats is what it is. That to me seems like he has a read on Oats that he is not able to explain. Bad. Malongo - Purely based on his first post and my experience with him in other games. VayneAuthority - I think Vayne's posting implies he is town. I don't like him not giving out his reads if he thinks someone is mafia, but that's how he rolls on D1 as town. Definitely not worth lynching. Stutters695 - I really liked Stutters' post about Vivax early on. I dunno what makes him think CJS is mafia, and i'm waiting on his case on paperscraps. hzflank - I had a big big red read on hzflank before this: "I did start to prepare a case on Oats yesterday but I cancelled it shortly after starting. As I was writing it I became less sure that Oats was scum and I did not want to post a case that I did not believe in myself. That is fairly normal for me as I seem to be good at convincing myself that someone is not scum." That basically proves that hzflank is town, that is so incredibly genuine. Koshi - Says people should not pressure FT, wrong. People who are scummy should be pressured. His vote on hzflank is horrible, it's clear that he doesn't even think the dude is scum. Other than that he has not done anything that can be considered scumhunting. FirmTofu - Early on says that "we should talk about the game instead of general bullshit", which he has been talking about in his every post before that. Later on he corrects himself that he was talking about RPing, gifs etc. That's as useless as lurker-lynch talk. tsk tsk. CJS posts btw are totally not fluff, they were at time amongst the best in the game. His stance on JAT is fucking weird and his exarezee case accuses him for same things he says about JAT. He is throwing shit left and right but not trying to figure out who are scum with exarezee, who is he voting at. He is not questioning him at all but soft-accusing other people. justanothertownie - I don't think he has said anything useful. His vote on Paper is pretty shitty because paper has at least expressed some reads, which JAT has not done at all. Only thing he has done is to get into a shitfest with Oats, which is not useful thing to do for a townie. exarezee - He has posted a fuckton and he is new. I don't think there is a chance that he is mafia based purely on that. The cases / votes on him are shit, none of those reasons make him mafia.
Vivax, who do you actually think is mafia? Where is your head at. I was assuming you to take a town leading status and drive the discussion into important matters. You are staying in the sidelines and not doing much. Why is that? Koshi, all you have done is posted useless lists. Who do you think is scum and why? What is your stance on FirmTofu? Do you still think he is town? FirmTofu, wanna lynch Koshi? Or can you give me reasons to not lynch him? Stutters, you wanna make that case on Paper?
##Vote: FirmTofuDefinitely scummiest person so far. His case on exarezee is bad. All the points on him are assumptions that cannot be defended against other than "no, you are wrong". There is no concrete evidence. Then he calls him wishy-washy as exarezee does not have a clear stance on someone. Look at what he says about JAT after that. "I can move my vote on him if you make a good enough case". Right...
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 04 2013 00:08 marvellosity wrote:
Holy, why is what i posted up there wrong? I need you just to clear it up for me.
You seemed to think his unvote post at the time was bad, later you thought it was ok? is that not the case or what?
Where did I say his unvote was bad, I've checked my filter but can't really see it. Either way, upon rereading ouats I saw things like
On October 02 2013 23:03 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
I read/detunneled.
On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why am I scummy clarity? Contradiction. What? Marv, I liked his posts after I left, and thought from the perspective of not a cynical old fart and thought that HF is probably town. However, if he doesnt convince people to vote for me or convince dudes to vote for someone else, then THE PRESSURE IS ON BABY!
and was like - oh, he's actually willing to pay attention now, and he was right about the pressuring people etc.
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EBWOP: When i am unable to -- for whatever reason -- play properly at the start of the game i sum up where i am when caught and understood everything.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On October 04 2013 00:17 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:08 marvellosity wrote:
Holy, why is what i posted up there wrong? I need you just to clear it up for me.
You seemed to think his unvote post at the time was bad, later you thought it was ok? is that not the case or what? Where did I say his unvote was bad, I've checked my filter but can't really see it. Either way, upon rereading ouats I saw things like Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 23:03 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 22:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
I read/detunneled.
On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why am I scummy clarity? Contradiction. What? Marv, I liked his posts after I left, and thought from the perspective of not a cynical old fart and thought that HF is probably town. However, if he doesnt convince people to vote for me or convince dudes to vote for someone else, then THE PRESSURE IS ON BABY! and was like - oh, he's actually willing to pay attention now, and he was right about the pressuring people etc.
Does this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=15#297 - not suggest you thought his unvote was bad? What am I missing?
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Rayn tunnels really stupidly as town probably more often than as scum or he doesnt do it as scum at all.
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On October 04 2013 00:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
Rayn tunnels really stupidly as town probably more often than as scum or he doesnt do it as scum at all.
That's not true btw.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I can't read past 10 pages of your posts so I can't read it all so I just went on posts by BH who seemed to know. Either way, it's impossible for us to know whether you are capable of posting or not unless you specifically state that?? Also, my points still stand, we're not on the topic of finding actual scum STILL.
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Blazinghand
United States25549 Posts
On October 03 2013 21:27 marvellosity wrote:
by the way - scum don't have to, because you play so terribly that town do the job for them.
you should probably think about that a little.
this is pretty sexy
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On October 04 2013 00:22 Holyflare wrote:
I can't read past 10 pages of your posts so I can't read it all so I just went on posts by BH who seemed to know. Either way, it's impossible for us to know whether you are capable of posting or not unless you specifically state that?? Also, my points still stand, we're not on the topic of finding actual scum STILL.
What? If BH says something about me you straight up believe it? Why is that?
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On October 04 2013 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
Rayn tunnels really stupidly as town probably more often than as scum or he doesnt do it as scum at all.
That's not true btw.
So whats true?
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EPT
