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Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 03:43 Lvdr wrote: YOU look scummy. Alright ... I have never been scum and it looks like I behave like one ... I don't know how the scum Sideni would behave like. However, I can tell you that I haven't changed my way of playing ... I'm just stuck at the same position iamperfection was at during last game when he was the only one left to vote for YourHarry ! | ||
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Sideni
Canada79 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On August 11 2012 02:49 Dandel Ion wrote: Please read through it before saying things like that. I don't trust myself to respond in a calm matter, I'd just insult him over and over - that would not help anyone. If you read it and still think it's worth responding to, tell me. What about it now you read it? | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On August 10 2012 06:23 Dandel Ion wrote: EBWOP = Edit By Way Of Post Basically "edit:", just in another post, since you're not allowed to edit in mafia. Shit I just explained something, sorry Promethelax, I'll never do it again Damn, now I have to take a step back every time I think you are scummy and try to decide if it is just because you annoy the hell out of me with your attitude or if you actually appear scummy. Still leaning red. On August 10 2012 07:06 iamperfection wrote: I aint going to fabricate a case just to defend myself. Iamperfection feels very scummy here, he plays on the emotional side to avoid making a case. He has stated that my posting feels 'weird' to him but doesn't have a case to make. This feels like it has a scum motivation: creating pressure on a townie without backing it up with a case or a vote. This leaves him open to jumping on a bandwaggon or not; town doesn't need to be wishy washy. On August 10 2012 08:36 Kronen wrote: Time to weigh in from the shadows: I'm hesitant to level a FOS at anyone right now, but if i did level one it would be at lvdr. I found myself nodding when reading mkfuba's lengthy post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=24#462. The tenor of his posts (drunk or not) just strike of obfuscation more than anything else. But to excerpt a particularly cloudy question from lvdr: "@everyone - What is the book on emotional players?" I don't understand what you mean by emotional players. Could you clarify? Also, are you saying that iamp an emotional player with that open-ended question? And does the book refer to how to handle them collectively? When hapa brought me to task on my first post, I got emotional and felt under-the-gun. I saw the first bold text leveled in my general direction I made a flippant terse reactionary comment and clicked send. That was emotional play. After reading his next post, I took a deep breath and realized it wasn't an attack, just a note of confusion. Basically, I'm just having trouble distinguishing in my mind what "emotional play" could be other than play without logic or thought behind it. -- It seems that people are referencing behavior from Day .5 often and letting those past behaviors inform decisions. I have not read the first 19pages or so of back-and-forth, choosing rather to comb since the dawn of Day 1. Is it common practice for newcomers to read the null day's proceedings? I'll start going back to it if that's the case. Fluffy sidenote:+ Show Spoiler + I had a little "Aha!" moment when Dandel wrote: On August 10 2012 07:40 Dandel Ion wrote: If you're (vanilla) town, why would you be concerned with being second on a case? You should not be scared of getting lynched, like, ever. People might accuse you of bandwagoning - so what? Once you flip green, it's just more evidence against them. It makes perfect sense though. In case you all missed it, I'm a vanilla townie. I for one feared being "outed" by someone because of the time investment spent into the game, and the long-term commitment to reading and responding. If I'm outed and lynched as a townie I still get to read the following proceedings and see what happened as a result of my death. All of the fun popcorn action, and less of the stress and verbal riposte! That's all for now, more later. What was your aha moment? I don't get it from your post and I would love to know what you have learned, or think you have learned about our flowery friend. As to the null day, there is no common practice in this sort of situation because there is not usually this situation. If I were you I would read day.5 though and learn everything you can. More information is good. On August 10 2012 08:47 Dandel Ion wrote: Bolded part and your analogy that doesn't go anywhere looks pretty scummy to me. There's basically no goal, direction or reason behind this, but you still feel the need to share it with us. You apologize for the confusion, but good town play, in my book, is trying to AVIOD confusion. Confusion, gray shades and everything inbetween just give scum openings for misinterpretations. Please, in the bolded part you clearly showed that you have the theoretical ability to think your posts through, the only thing left is to actually do it. Here Dandel says that the bolded part of Sadini's post both doesn't go anywhere/is scummy and shows the ability to think a post through...errrr what? Why blatantly contradict yourself? Setting yourself up to distance from a lynch? On August 10 2012 09:28 Axero wrote: FOS Hapa I've actually been pretty busy since the game started, but no I haven't made many posts. I'm sorting out my feelings on people and as this is my first game it's taking me some time to get used to it. However you are very quick to point to several people. The feeling I'm getting from you is that you're only being active to avoid suspicion. Seems like you're over doing it a little bit. Might be a snap reaction but it is how I feel at this point in the game. an OMGUS FoS. This is scummy play and puts Axero in my red column. As soon as someone FoS'd him his reaction was not to improve his play or post something worthwhile but to cast doubt on that person. I'm not buying it. On August 10 2012 09:44 Axero wrote: Since the game started and I didn't know I'd be in it I had previous plans. I've been checking the thread and still trying to feel people out, but since nothing really had anything to do with me personally, I haven't replied. (Not the best play, but again, first game  ) As for your first criticism, those two statements I made were my response to YH, not actual suspicions against you, kind of just possibilities. But yes, at this point, it is my gut reaction to your actions. In the middle of a game of DotA atm, so I'm sure this didn't answer everything you wanted. I'll respond in a bit. This is all so bad I have a hard time seeing scum play or town in it, I guess it could be a newb scum trying to pass off as too dumb to scum or a townie who thinks this is good?? I'm just confused by Axero but after by read of YH as town last game due to his bad play (and the way it followed his meta perfectly) I have decided not to let people get away with play just because it is too bad for scum to do. I want better play from Axero as we go, lets see how he improves over the next few pages As to Dandel vs Sidini, I'm not going to quote posts there are too many, these two seem to be going after each other for no reason. A whole lot of back and forth with no real material. I think there are cases t be made on both of them (in fact cases have been made on both of them) but they are not contributing to the accusations against the other just essentially having a "you're scum" "no you!" back and forth. I have drawn some crazy connection theories from this that I am loathe to share but until one or the other flips I don't feel that their interaction with each other tells us much about either one. Now on to a game I call the time stamp game: On August 10 2012 12:09 Lvdr wrote: Time for some lurker rankings! 3. Shady Sands: Shady has taken umbrage with a (admittedly) confusing clarification I made and accused axero of lurking. He hasn't said anything else, but he's taken a position. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=25#499 2. Axero: Axero has appeared long enough to FOS Hapa for (rightfully) calling him a lurker. OMGUS at its finest. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=27#535 1. goodkarma: goodkarma has given us gems like: and ... and followed it up with some quality lurkage. I declare goodkarma our lurker champion for now. 12:09-12:25 On August 10 2012 12:25 Shady Sands wrote: I'm getting echoes of Golbat from XXII. Similarly bad play D1, resulted in a lynch of the Vigi. Since it's a newbie game, I think we should be a little nicer on the guy. It might be better for all of us. Shady's last post was at 6:04. Look to me like someone doesn't like being called a lurker. This is as scummy as Axero's above lurking if not mroe so. Axero was open with his dumb reasoning the real Slim shady over here has hidden his agenda (looking active) behind a town cred buy (obviously assuming that Axero is town, if he is mafia this is just a defense of a scumbuddy). Golbat didn't play the way Axero is playing this game, I'd say this is intentional misinformation trying to buy some town cred. Oh, Hapa mentioned this; I won't go into detail he already did. YourHarry makes me a sad, sad man. Somethings don't make sense. Like voting for a guy On August 09 2012 17:18 YourHarry wrote: ##Vote mkfuba unvoting him a day later in your very next post On August 10 2012 12:30 YourHarry wrote: ##Unvote Is it acceptable to take into consideration personal coaching experiences to speculate players that are being coached? Some good discussion going. I also want to point out the lurkers in this game. If you are not going to be active, please replace out. Axero, if you are going too busy to invest considerable efforts in this game, please replace out. Goodkarma, put more thoughts into your post. And not having anything to add to the discussion is not an excuse. There are always rooms for contribution. Keep reading, repeatedly if needed, until you do. I will be back in a bit to post my thoughts. Also would really like the moderator to allow speculation on who is being coached. As far as I am concerned, scums can lie about their coaching situation, so anything should go. and On August 10 2012 19:12 YourHarry wrote: So you were testing me? I accept the logic behind not clarifying right away. It was a superior move, than to simply point out the spoiler that I missed. You could have possibly caught the scum this way. But the thing is: I don't believe you. If you are town, given the context of our posts, your primary goal should have been to determine if my clearance of Hapa as town is merit worthy. And this goal is apparent in your post. And yes, it is possible that in addition to your trying to determine whether Hapa is indeed town, that you were also testing me. But wouldn't you say it is too unnatural and methodical to be a simple townie wanting a clarification? Instead, it could be that your post was based on your scum motive to fit as a townie (and possibly to frame me based on according to my response). And your perfectly logical explanation behind your actions was custom designed only in afterthought. (I admit. I have no meta evidence to support this. I do not know how you play as town. I could simply be wrong in not giving you enough credit. But having played on the same scum team with you, I do know that scum mkfuba is capable of framing logical reasons around his earlier actions. More of the same, bolded for emphasis: Your claim that you made these assumptions (which you claim you made when you initially found Lvdr suspicious), again, appear to be something you fictionalized to explain your earlier actions. None of these assumptions are actually mentioned in your initial case against Lvdr. ##Vote mkfuba voting him again seven hours later. Wat? On August 11 2012 01:36 Axero wrote: @ Hapa It's a fast paced game.  I'm still excited to play, even if you can't see it in my posts. Learning as I go.Fluff: (Congrats on the wedding btw) GODDAMMIT! I already said this to Sedini and he mentioned it again. It is in the thread THREE times! Hapa isn't getting married. I hate people who don't read. And people who say they'll post cases and don't and people who FoS based on OMGUS. Each of those in turn is not a scum tell but all together I find it scummy. Sedini's case on Dandel is awful. I still think the guy seems scummy but after that case I would prefer to vote for Sideni. His follow-up unvote and vote switch as soon as the pressure hit gives me a scum vibe and for now ## Vote: Sideni I also have my eye on Axero and Dandel Followed to a lesser extent by Shady and lvdr YH continues inscrutable. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:09 Promethelax wrote: Sedini's case on Dandel is awful. I still think the guy seems scummy but after that case I would prefer to vote for Sideni. His follow-up unvote and vote switch as soon as the pressure hit gives me a scum vibe and for now I don't know for you, but I changed my vote because I realized it was wrong ... I realized that Hapahauli was right. How dumb would I be if I would realize something, but then I would follow my wrong judgement ? What is the most scummy, to change your mind and not being afraid of doing so or to be blind and forget about everything ? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:09 Promethelax wrote: Here Dandel says that the bolded part of Sadini's post both doesn't go anywhere/is scummy and shows the ability to think a post through...errrr what? Why blatantly contradict yourself? Setting yourself up to distance from a lynch? Please read it properly. He has the THEORETICAL ability to think his posts through, he just doesn't do it. He posts something, and says its bullshit right after, in the same post. That means he should know he should delete it in the first place, but he doesn't make the connection to actually do it. I don't know why you still go on about this, I've explain all this already. I get the feeling you have a personal grudge against for some unfathomable reason. You accuse me of lurking, then you lurk the shit out of the thread. You say I argue with Sideni for too long - I agree on that, but as soon as I try to stop, Hapahauli jumps up and yells at me for being "shitty" for not arguing any more. I have a question for you: If Sideni gets lynched, what information will you get out of the flip, and how will it reflect on me? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:07 Dandel Ion wrote: @Hapahauli: What about it now you read it? I posted my thoughts already: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=31#615 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=31#617 The case is pretty bad. Like really bad. I'll have to do some thinking on whether or not it's scum motive or not though: bad cases aren't necessarily mafia-motivated. At the moment, it's my gut feeling that Sideni is a bad townie. Sideni has been pretty active, and despite the "fluffiness" of his posting, they read to me as genuine attempts to contribute. Secondly, I don't understand why Sideni (as mafia) would go after Dandel Ion after largely agreeing with mkfuba's case on Lvdr. I feel that hypothetical mafia-Sideni would have sheeped on Lvdr. So for the moment, I'm sticking with my vote on Axero. I've made my previous case on him clear, and he's sheeped into voting for Lvdr. I think he's the best lynch, but I have much more thinking to do over the next few hours. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:25 Hapahauli wrote: I posted my thoughts already: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=31#615 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=31#617 The case is pretty bad. Like really bad. I'll have to do some thinking on whether or not it's scum motive or not though: bad cases aren't necessarily mafia-motivated. At the moment, it's my gut feeling that Sideni is a bad townie. Sideni has been pretty active, and despite the "fluffiness" of his posting, they read to me as genuine attempts to contribute. Secondly, I don't understand why Sideni (as mafia) would go after Dandel Ion after largely agreeing with mkfuba's case on Lvdr. I feel that hypothetical mafia-Sideni would have sheeped on Lvdr. So for the moment, I'm sticking with my vote on Axero. I've made my previous case on him clear, and he's sheeped into voting for Lvdr. I think he's the best lynch, but I have much more thinking to do over the next few hours. Hm just wanted to know if you still required me to adress it - I'm gonna take your post as a "no" | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Go with me a bit here: If Axero was town, wouldn't he be a REALLY EASY MISLYNCH FOR MAFIA? Why has NO ONE voted for him? I'm inclined to think that his mafia buddies are covering for him! | ||
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Axero
United States307 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:25 Dandel Ion wrote: He has the THEORETICAL ability to think his posts through, he just doesn't do it. He posts something, and says its bullshit right after, in the same post. That means he should know he should delete it in the first place, but he doesn't make the connection to actually do it. You're driving me crazy with that ... I'm using the analogy to prove my point and then, I realize my point is bad (NOT THE ANALOGY). So, instead of sticking to my bad point, I just leave the analogy there to show you what I thought to acknowledge my mistake ! I could indeed just say : "Fuck it, I made a mistake!" without any explanation ! After that, you would just want to know about it ! And if you don't want to know, don't cry that I explained my mistake !!! @Hapahauli : Is it bad only because it relies on what Lvdr turns out to be ? If that's the only reason, I would be happy ... But, looking at all the time I took to write it, I felt it was pretty good ='( Require vote count please ! | ||
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:29 Hapahauli wrote: To be honest, I'm shocked at how little attention that Axero is getting. He's laying low and has demonstrated some clear anti-town behavior. Some players have mentioned having suspicions of him, but no one has so much as FOS'd him. Go with me a bit here: If Axero was town, wouldn't he be a REALLY EASY MISLYNCH FOR MAFIA? Why has NO ONE voted for him? I'm inclined to think that his mafia buddies are covering for him! Your so called case on axerro boils down to one line to me. On August 10 2012 09:56 Axero wrote: Haha, no I wasn't planning on lurking. I was actually going to go ahead with my plans without checking the forum at all, but someone coaching me suggested i still check. You have to think of like this if he is mafia his plan was to refrence coaching as a means for his defense. I find this unlikely. I am more inclined to believe that this statement was truth and if he was away there was only one way he would recieve notification from a coach. He was pm'ed and i think this statement On August 10 2012 10:03 Axero wrote: My friend who introduced me to mafia told me  after he received another pm after being scolded for refrencing coaching. Thats what determines it for me. | ||
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Axero
United States307 Posts
Does anyone else feel the same? Is this common and not something I should be looking into? | ||
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Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:29 Hapahauli wrote: To be honest, I'm shocked at how little attention that Axero is getting. He's laying low and has demonstrated some clear anti-town behavior. Some players have mentioned having suspicions of him, but no one has so much as FOS'd him. Go with me a bit here: If Axero was town, wouldn't he be a REALLY EASY MISLYNCH FOR MAFIA? Why has NO ONE voted for him? I'm inclined to think that his mafia buddies are covering for him! Can't bold bolded text, but I agree that he would be an easy mislynch for mafia ! Actually, I've read through all your posts about him and I've been thinking about it quite a bit ! But, not enough to talk about it, being busy with Lvdr and Dandel Ion. (I seriously think I'm in the same situation as iamperfection from day 0.5 ...) The thing is that I'm just so sure about Lvdr that I want to concentrate on him to see what would happen of Dandel Ion. And then, I think Axero would be an easy lynch for day 2... I just feel like I won't survive the night if we think Lvdr and Dandel Ion are clean ... | ||
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Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:37 Axero wrote: Going to mention this again, because it's still striking me as really odd. mkfuba07 hasn't posted since "August 09 2012 19:18." He's been fairly active from the beginning and just dropping off in activity this close to the end of the day seems extremely... not town... Does anyone else feel the same? Is this common and not something I should be looking into? Well, what is really suspicious is that we are currently talking about you and then, from nowhere, you try to draw the attention off of yourself by talking about mkfuba being lurking ! ##FOS Axero | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:37 iamperfection wrote: Your so called case on axerro boils down to one line to me. What? What about the rest of my case? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=29#565 What about the rest of that isn't valid? You have to think of like this if he is mafia his plan was to refrence coaching as a means for his defense. I find this unlikely. I am more inclined to believe that this statement was truth and if he was away there was only one way he would recieve notification from a coach. He was pm'ed and i think this statement after he received another pm after being scolded for refrencing coaching. Thats what determines it for me. There's nothing in the rules against referencing coaching. I confirmed this with one of the hosts this game. | ||
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Axero
United States307 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:45 Sideni wrote: Well, what is really suspicious is that we are currently talking about you and then, from nowhere, you try to draw the attention off of yourself by talking about mkfuba being lurking ! ##FOS Axero I pointed it out earlier before any of this, but it was at the end of a page and figured people missed it. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:45 Hapahauli wrote: after he received another pm after being scolded for refrencing coaching. Thats what determines it for me. There's nothing in the rules against referencing coaching. I confirmed this with one of the hosts this game. [/QUOTE] There isnt? In a previous game i refrenced coaching and got immediatly scolded so that is why i think the same thing happened to axxero. | ||
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