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Thoughts on the night's cases:
strongandbig: Yeah, he half-arsed a pardoner campaign and hasn't done anything since. However, he's a conservative player and so I doubt he'd campaign as scum. His recent lack of posting may be because he's dispirited after screwing up his campaign and getting into that unnecessary scrap with BH. Probably an alien emotion to many people here.
He's normally a pretty easy read and makes decent cases as town, so hopefully he'll make some decent posts before the deadline.
Kitaman: I nearly jumped on his opening post, but I figured it was mostly trolling and trying to get Hyaach to post so I left it alone. His posts have looked fairly constructive to me so far.
Sinensis: So he's sticking with a totally irrational and anti-town position and ignoring everything that's actually happening in the game? Because he wants to lose two games in a row?
If he's scum he was daft not to change tactics once Grush started posting better (like BH did). If he's town, it's now insultingly bad play, which makes his complaint about Grush utterly hypocritical. Scum read, because the alternative is uglier.
Toad -> pardoner stuff: I think Toad is most likely a real town mason, but I think VE has a valid point about giving the pardoner role to the lyncher. If the lyncher survives to LYLO and their target isn't lynched, it makes sense for them to pardon to keep their win condition alive. Therefore if Toad is roleblockable, electing him to pardoner is likely to result in a day 2 shitstorm and a possible wasted lynch.
So we need to compare that risk to the risk that either Wiggles or ET are scum. ET just looks town to me, while Wiggles is clearly trying very hard. Almost too hard, but I probably shouldn't hold that against him. I think on balance we should just elect the two of them.
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hey guys just gonna vote for wiggles as he's my strongest town read atm. Not gonna be very active until later in the day.
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My strongest townread is forumite and therefor i vote him for office. I think everyone should do the same. Result will be, that most likely townplayers are in this office and not some players you guys expect to win the game for you. Btw this office with no bodyguards is no office we want to vote the players in, who are in danger of getting shot tonight.
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S&B is a way better target than sinensis imo.
Sinensis is just a null to me, neither looking good nor looking bad and I'd say give him another day to show wether or not he's town.
S&B is not looking like the best lynch but he's a decent Plan-B.
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And for the 4th time: I AM NOT ROLEBLOCKABLE FOR CHRISTS SAKE. Stop talking about something like that because it's not possible.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Sorry guys, my friends and I have been enjoying the weather which has actually been good in England for a change (blah blah rain blah blah) and GSTL is distracting too.
I'd love to give my opinions about the cases, if someone can possibly point towards who the main guys are? I can see Wiggles and ET are options for leader, is there anyone else? And are there any other guys besides Toad for vice?
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On May 29 2012 03:12 Hassybaby wrote:
Sorry guys, my friends and I have been enjoying the weather which has actually been good in England for a change (blah blah rain blah blah) and GSTL is distracting too.
I'd love to give my opinions about the cases, if someone can possibly point towards who the main guys are? I can see Wiggles and ET are options for leader, is there anyone else? And are there any other guys besides Toad for vice?
I'm no longer an option because people (VE) fear a modconfirmed townie who's going to be shot because he's the modconfirmed guy is to easy to be manipulated therefore I am no option or because I am a lyncher (according to wiggles) or I'm mafia (according to foru).
Other people fear I am going to be roleblocked n1 which would result in a huge shitstorm because I am roleblockimmune.
Don't even try to ask me to understand that.
Anyways the best option we have right now is probably Foru and we should get him into either position.
That's it for me. See you guys in an hour or something like that.
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Mmk
Hassy:
The VP and P elections are NOT separate. Meaning the second most vote automatically becomes VP.
Toad:
Like I said, I think you picking your partner(if that is how it works) is the best move from here.
But if you really ARE the mason, why would mafia kill the person who confirms you because only on his flip can the town know you are mod-confirmed?
I think I have a guess as to what you are doing but we can only wait and see.
Is the voting due in 5 hours?
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On May 28 2012 15:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean, I spelled it out myself.
Okay, so I like Kita/Sinensis for scum so far...which is actually kinda disturbing, what do you think about 2 scum pretty much just claiming in thread like that? Seems too easy...but anyway there are lurkers to consider. What are the chances that ANY scum are among those who haven't posted yet?
I think Mattchew or one of the other older players may be playing scummylurky. I recall ET did that explicitly and on purpose in SS mafia, maybe one of them (someone who recently lost a game as scum by being super active and leadery in the thread until I shot him) is doing that.
+ Show Spoiler [wiggles on me] +On May 28 2012 17:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
strongandbig:
I believe strongandbig is scummy because of how he made a decision to run for pardoner, and then just sort of fell out of the running and didn't even try to continue to gain support after being called out.
He comes in and makes a post saying that he wants to be the pardoner. Quickly, BH calls him out on it, and after some back and forth, he drops his candidacy. It seems to me that scum would love to be able to nab the role of pardoner. This is what strongandbig set out to do, but when he was actually called out about running specifically for pardoner and was put under pressure, he was very quick to just drop his candidacy altogether. I think this is a sign of being scum, since it displays that he was very nervous in running. I feel as though a townie in that position wouldn't back off from running so quickly and after so little pressure. Also, his reason for not continuing to run is odd as well. He says it's because there aren't separate elections, but in my eyes, it seems more because he didn't like that he immediately came under scrutiny and was pressured.
Even beyond his candidacy, strongandbig's posting has been very safe, and not very relevant to the game or contributory. He hasn't provided us with many original thoughts, and has been very reserved since he got called out by BH. Again, this looks like he's afraid of being in the spotlight or being put under pressure.
1. I stopped running for pardoner when I realized that it wasn't a separate election from the mayor's election. That's how it worked in the last game I played, and it wasn't specified in the OP. Once I figured out that it was the same election, I stopped running for reasons I've already explained -- I don't want to be mayor.
2. BH's "scrutiny" didn't make any sense at all!
2a: His first point was "why did you run for vice mayor instead of running for mayor, your reasons for running for vice mayor also apply to mayor." I had already answered that point (I don't trust my day1 reads enough to kill someone off).
2b: His second point was "hey first you said you wanted to do something different because blue roles are fun and then later you said that you want to keep pardoner power away from scum what gives those are different." I didn't mention keeping pardoner power away from scum because I thought it would be obvious; if a power is useful for scum and not for town then town should try to keep it away from scum.
3: IDK what you mean when you say I was "called out for running specifically for pardoner" - that's exactly what I was doing, it's not like I was trying to hide it or anything. I thought there were separate elections since it didn't say in the OP that the runner-up becomes the vice leader, I had to look through greymist's filter to figure that out.
Basically, my point is that I wasn't trying to avoid scrutiny or the spotlight. There really just wasn't much worth responding to. Also after BH and ET blew up the thread over my poorly chosen comments about BH, I didn't want to drag the thread down any more. Think about this - if I was scum, by not posting I gave up a golden opportunity to get just as emotional as BH was and keep the thread fucked up for at least several more pages.
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Voted EchelonTee for the reasons I described earlier.
Also because he and Wiggles are the most reasonable and towny-seeming candidates ATM, and Wiggles apparently wants to shoot me.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On May 29 2012 03:29 papapanda wrote:
Mmk
Hassy:
The VP and P elections are NOT separate. Meaning the second most vote automatically becomes VP.
Toad:
Like I said, I think you picking your partner(if that is how it works) is the best move from here.
But if you really ARE the mason, why would mafia kill the person who confirms you because only on his flip can the town know you are mod-confirmed?
I think I have a guess as to what you are doing but we can only wait and see.
Is the voting due in 5 hours?
Oh, ok. Thought it was a separate vote. Thanks fort he heads up.
So....Wiggles and ET? I'd like to focus on that today to make sure I get the right vote down in my opinion.
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Yo papapanda:
On May 28 2012 06:44 papapanda wrote:
Grush+Sinensis+pppanda reunion lets kick ass(dont tell BH)!
Oh Hai Blazinghand.
When you posted this, Sinensis and BH were campaigning on the basis of lynching Grush. Any reason why you didn't think that was worth mentioning?
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Time for a little bit of analysis before I have to get back to work.
My Finger of Suspicion points currently at supersoft.
On May 28 2012 06:00 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 05:55 Toadesstern wrote:On May 28 2012 05:49 kitaman27 wrote:
Lets end the discussion right now.
Toad is our pardoner.
It's the best of both worlds. It ensures we don't have a scum pardoner, which is the more dangerous of the two roles and it protects us from a mayor lyncher. If you're town toad, then great we denied the role. If not, then we don't really care if you would prefer mayor. denying that role is utterly useless. A mafia can't use it before LYLO or he's dead. Both mayor and vice-thingy are highly likely to die early on, at least mayor for sure. Even if mafia gets that role they can't use it because they're trading it for a 1v1 which I am happy to take. Why is everyone so scared about the pardoner. That role is completly useless no matter of alignment. And this is actually something i agree with. The electionroles in this game are basically pretty meaningless. This pardonerguy and this mayor. Pfff i mean, they will die before LYLO anyway so there is really nothing to worry about.
This is not a good town attitude. As has been discussed, these roles are super important for town - each of them can pretty much fuck up an entire cycle by denying town info, plus there's the mayor's double vote.
On May 29 2012 03:03 supersoft wrote:
My strongest townread is forumite and therefor i vote him for office. I think everyone should do the same. Result will be, that most likely townplayers are in this office and not some players you guys expect to win the game for you. Btw this office with no bodyguards is no office we want to vote the players in, who are in danger of getting shot tonight.
I <3 forumite and I agree that he's probably town, but this is a terrible plan. If everyone just votes for their "strongest town read" instead of for one of the actual candidates, then the votes are likely to get very spread out giving mafia a good chance to swing the election by coordinating, either to get one of them elected or just to avoid getting someone they're scared of or who's on the right track elected.
On May 27 2012 18:38 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 18:28 Zealos wrote:
Hi guys, I'm a vanilla townie, and I'm gonna try not to get too emotionally attached when I play this game, to avoid cluttering.
Let's all try and chill, and play nice together, because arguing is not finding scum. Also, in a game this big, can we try to keep posting concise and simple, so the pages don't get into their thousands.
I'm currently happy with an ET mayor. From what I know of him, he may not be the best townie in TL, but he's consistent and seems to do a good job of staying cool and hunting scum.
I'm on the "Pardoner is bad" boat too, but I'm not sure the best way to deal with it at the moment, but I'm open to ideas.
Not starting looking for scum yet, but as a start.
@Blazinghand: Do you think you've been helpful so far this game?
@ET: Who would you vote for Mayor if not yourself?
@Mattchew: Do you think the arguments going on are indicative of people being scum, or is it a case of frustrated egos?
why do you claim right now?
Lol. Kenpachi'd by the kenpachi copycat.
And in case anyone doesn't think this works, I got caught by BC with it in SS mafia. It does work, probably because claiming VT is suspicious and weird behavior that scum think they can gain towncred for by calling out.
On May 28 2012 05:58 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't share Toadesstern's reservations about ET. I think he's been fairly open and honest, and I don't see how those things can be construed as 'manipulative'. While it's true that some of his points about "The State of TL Towns" is superficially easy to say as scum, you have to bear in mind the motivation for making such a post. First of all, he now has to be held accountable for any style of posting that goes against this philosophy...if he starts wigging out and being hyper-aggressive then we can point to his campaign post and say "?!".
Add to that the fact that by and large I agree with most of what he's pushing and I'm willing to give him a shot. I think that if he really is scum, it's going to be hard to hide that fact if he's given 2 votes and a free lynch today - which he's promised to use by 'scumhunting'...another factor we can hold him to come the end of the day.
I don't think these things are "easy for mafia" to say at all, and I think Toadesstern is the one being manipulative here.
##FoS: Toadesstern
If you really are about to be "confirmed" * then you're going to need to step up your game sir. Put more thought into your accusations than a tertiary glance if you hope to be of any use before you're "probably targeted by n2 or n3". good example for a completely nontelling post. You FoS Toadesstern?! because you disagree with him regarding this ET guy? What is your plan?! What do you want? Toad claimed Mason; he reacted kind of okay when i pressured him (regarding that he's mason his reaction actually is okay). Please, make a plan and dont pressure around randomly. We got everything from toad he has to offer right now. Badluck he seems to be mason and we forced him to claim that.
This also is a bit of an odd post. Why does the fact that Toad claimed mason change SS's impression of his townplay? SS had some really strong reads on Toad, saying things like "I know your townplay." More importantly, SS's points on Toad were 100% right - saying "elect me because I'm unreadable" and "I will magically kill scum on day 1" like toad did are super suspicious! I tend to agree with many people that this leans towards Toad being third party. So why did SS back off here?
Also, how did we "force" Toad to claim anything? There was literally no reason for Toad to claim some kind of nonstandard target-changing un-roleblockable "manipulation-proof" (wtf?) mason role, as part of his campaign for Mayor.
This reads to me either like SS and Toad are scum buddies trying to distance themselves and got too far, or (more likely) like a scum SS saw an opportunity to gain town cred by making an actual good case on a player who was not being towny but wasn't on his scum team, then backing off when he realized that the presence of third parties like a lyncher hurts town and probably helps scum.
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I wish Sinensis would get in here and say something. Hell I wish several people would get in here and say something. :/
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Talk to me VE! What was your reason for voting for...who you voted for. I'm reading through the filters of the 2 main guys and it may take me up till voting time...
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I voted for Wiggles because he's the most likely candidate to lynch scum D1 in my opinion. I like ET, ET a baus, but I think Wiggles is the better Leader candidate.
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On May 29 2012 03:05 Toadesstern wrote:
And for the 4th time: I AM NOT ROLEBLOCKABLE FOR CHRISTS SAKE. Stop talking about something like that because it's not possible.
This is just one example of anti-town information to share with the class. In fact, this almost makes me disbelieve the claim. Toad wtf are you doing?
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Like, I get it...you don't want anyone besmirching your claim with false information or whatever the fuck...but imagine this scenario. Imagine you HADN'T broadcast that you're not roleblockable and scum have a roleblocker.
What possible town motivation could you have for sharing the fact that you're not roleblockable with everyone? Hell, even people in PMs, why isn't that your most closely guarded secret?
Wiggles, I'd like you to seriously SERIOUSLY consider lynching Toadesstern today...at the very least tell me what you think of the guy as completely and honestly as possible. I'm going to do the same right now.
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On May 29 2012 04:07 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 03:05 Toadesstern wrote:
And for the 4th time: I AM NOT ROLEBLOCKABLE FOR CHRISTS SAKE. Stop talking about something like that because it's not possible. This is just one example of anti-town information to share with the class. In fact, this almost makes me disbelieve the claim. Toad wtf are you doing?
If this makes you "almost" disbelieve his claim, what about the
On May 28 2012 07:11 Toadesstern wrote:
Also I have a super secret I haven't told about my super awesome powers which works against manipulation.
and
On May 28 2012 23:04 Toadesstern wrote:
ALTHOUGH I HAVE A FUCKING ANIT-MANIPULATION POWA
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Catching up now fr. pg 24. Off-hand, considering Wiggles is probably more caught up than I am, he should be leader. I'm fine with merely denying Pardoner role (I'll never use it).
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EPT
