EPTTL Mafia LV - Page 33
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On May 29 2012 04:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Wiggles, I'd like you to seriously SERIOUSLY consider lynching Toadesstern today...at the very least tell me what you think of the guy as completely and honestly as possible. I'm going to do the same right now. Right, lets lynch the player who has the ability to confirm his role (or implicate a scumbuddy) on night one. On May 28 2012 17:41 VisceraEyes wrote: Here's the part that really gets me about Kita's whole Lyncher fixation: it's entirely based on one huge contradiction. :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Allow me to illustrate. Kita's reasoning for his Lyncher fixation, I believe, is to protect that one "townie target" from the lynch to extend the game exactly 1 cycle. Don't even worry about the fact that the Lyncher has no direct control over the lynch, because that's not the point. The point is to protect that one "townie target" from the lynch to extend the game exactly 1 cycle Kita's insisting that Toad be voted for Vice Leader of Earth on the platform of "soon I'll be 'confirmed' * Mason and I'll never ever use the power". By his estimation and repeated (ad nauseum?) insistence, it's in town's best interest to never use the pardoner power. But, by definition, the pardoner power extends the game exactly 1 cycle ....see where I'm going with this? His philosophies are completely contradictory! You can't be serious. The pardoner power doesn't extend the game in a pro-town fashion. It cancels out the town lynch, the mafia gets a round of night hits, and we likely lynch the same exact player the next day after wasting a night of discussion about whether or not the pardoner is scum. The pardoner is the equivalent to a public Prince of Darkness. Are you really trying to argue that is not in town's best interest to deny this role? You act is this is some groundbreaking scummy idea. It's been the policy in nearly ever game I've ever played. On May 28 2012 14:52 VisceraEyes wrote: YAY WE CAME TO THE EXACT SAME CONCLUSION INDEPENDENTLY! On May 28 2012 16:50 VisceraEyes wrote: MZ this shit is gold are you getting all this? On May 28 2012 17:12 VisceraEyes wrote: MZ I want your opinion: obviously in an ideal situation the town comes to a consensus on a lynch and there are no problems. But is it really in town's best interest to never use the pardoner power? On May 28 2012 17:41 VisceraEyes wrote: Once again we find ourselves in complete agreement. Buddy, buddy, buddy? In regards to Sinensis being considered for the lynch, sure focusing all his attention on a policy lynch is poor play, but is it scummy? It seems somewhat out of character for a scum player to start the game off pushing a policy that is going to be frowned upon, rather than just posting some setup speculation, jumping on a random mayoral candidate, and calling out a scummy townie. I could get behind a strongandbig lynch. His reasoning for running for pardoner was silly and then he drops out of the mayor race to avoid the spotlight. His case against supersoft seems forced. VE should also be considered. I'd like to hear Wiggles and ET's opinion on his his agenda thus far. I'd really like to hear Manason's opinion about who should be lynched. If he doesn't give his opinion, he should be considered. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
....maybe. His filter is really short. ...like.....really short. The only person he talks to is Kenpachi...someone known to barely talk to anyone in games ever. :/ | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On May 29 2012 05:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Dude I totally didn't even realize that BH was gunning for grush too! /facepalm Okay, yeah...that makes sense then. Like, if he had been the first to push a grush policy lynch then that would be one thing: proposing a weak policy lynch that's guaranteed to be shot down is easy as fuck for scum...but wholly unnecessary if someone has already run on the platform of killing grush. He could be telling the truth that they were typing their posts out at the same time. I mean, if his only goal is really to kill off grush, then there's not really any reason for him to run as town either, when BH is already doing the same thing. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
VE doesn't buddy that much as scum as far as I can remember... his thread bombing abilities are usually a stronger tool. Your opinions on other people I tend to agree with. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On May 29 2012 05:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Dude I totally didn't even realize that BH was gunning for grush too! /facepalm Okay, yeah...that makes sense then. Like, if he had been the first to push a grush policy lynch then that would be one thing: proposing a weak policy lynch that's guaranteed to be shot down is easy as fuck for scum...but wholly unnecessary if someone has already run on the platform of killing grush. I tend to think that both Sin..whatever and BH are looking pretty townish for that action but then again this troll campaign doesn't really look good for them. I mean I intended to get the mayoral position but I failed. I doubt those two ever honestly tried to and only tried to get their policy lynch point across. The thing here is they could have done that by saying something along the lines of "I'm going to vote anyone who's willing to lynch grush" as well without that bullshit of a campaign. The troublesome part is that people might think "hey they run for mayor. I doubt mafia would do that because there are no bodyguards and everyone expects the mayor to be dead either n1 or n2 the latest, so no way are they mafia", which would be something I'd consider if they honestly run for mayor. But they didn't, so why did they choose to do that? | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
Both bandwagons, but different in tone. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On May 29 2012 05:22 EchelonTee wrote: Something to note; almost all people have said "I would be down with killing Sinensis!". Some have said the same about SnB, but many have said "I am sort of suspicious, but want more info first". Both bandwagons, but different in tone. stop blabbering about this stuff and start telling us what YOU think about these issues. Yeah asking other people is fine and dandy but if you get to be the mayor YOU are responsible for the lynch and I don't want you to hide behind some "I only did what town wanted to me do" so get started and tell us who YOU thin is the best lynch because I want to keep you accountable for your actions, not the town in general. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On May 29 2012 04:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What I mean by the called out comment is that BH called you out for running for pardoner, and instead of really defending your candidacy, you just dropped it. It looks suspicious to me, because it looks like you decided to stop running at the first sign of pressure, and just used the voting mechanics as an excuse. Well, I really did just play in the Caller game which had different mechanics, and this game's mechanics really weren't explained in the OP. Hopefully we can agree on that, because those are actual neutral facts. As for my motivations for dropping my candidacy, if you just straight up don't believe me then there's really nothing I can say to change that. I did what I did for exactly the reasons I said I did. On May 29 2012 04:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What do you think of sinensis? I just read through his filter, didn't take very long. He has pretty much not talked about anything but his policy lynch on grush, as well as a small amount of attacking people who disagree with it. Clearly, I don't think this is helping town. As for whether he's scum: right now I'm pretty much null on him, unfortunately. He's not really posting enough or attacking people enough to be playing a full-on thread-destroying VE style scum. His obsessive focus on the one issue could be a way for scum to hide from engaging with actual issues, but he's posting too much to be sure about that given that this game has so many actual super lurkers. Basically, he looks like he could be scum using the grush issue as an excuse to avoid commenting on other things, or he could be a townie who actually is so mad about grush's play in the last game that he doesn't care about the other issues we've talked about on day 1. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
If you're lynching S&B I am kinda okay to ignore you for the time being and vote you. However a Kita lynch would give you my eternal love :3 | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On May 29 2012 05:05 EchelonTee wrote: RE: Sinensis I highly disagree with a Sinensis lynch at this time. Sinensis is a player who has much improved since his first few games, but people who have played with him should remember that he can be very stubborn and set in his reads. In SoaF, convinced that BH was scum, he voted BH before the Day Post had come, where BH promptly flipped town doctor. In surprisingly normal VII, he wanted to lynch prplhz, a claimed vig who had shot scum. Sinensis is someone who can have a read and will stick to it until he dies. Ugh. I remember NMMI now. It doesn't excuse his lack of other interest in the game though. He suspected prplhz all game in NMMI but that didn't stop him contributing other reads, voting for other players or generally participating in the game. Does he think that having a mayoral campaign excuses him from other participation? The evidence of irrational town play does reduce the chance of him flipping scum so I'll look for better targets. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On May 29 2012 05:22 EchelonTee wrote: Something to note; almost all people have said "I would be down with killing Sinensis!". Some have said the same about SnB, but many have said "I am sort of suspicious, but want more info first". Some players who haven't said "I would be down with killing Sinensis!". Probably not a complete list: papapanda: Ignored the issue, despite mentioning BH, Grush and Sinensis and having played LIV. austinmcc: Very hedgy post on Grush vs Sinensis. Supersoft: Ignored the issue. Hyaach: Doesn't want policy lynch, but ignored Sinensis question otherwise. Toad: Thinks Sinensis's play is too bold for a mafia. Plus all the lurkers who have said nothing about anything. | ||
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
I think it is suspicious that BlazingHand isn't still pushing for a grush vote too. This is something I think he would do if he was town, especially since grush hasn't really mentioned being targeted yet. BlazingHand has a reputation for pushing people until they just stop responding. Instead he backed off just as soon as I started to get attention for it. So, not changing my vote. | ||
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papapanda
Taiwan326 Posts
On May 29 2012 03:49 jaj22 wrote: Yo papapanda: When you posted this, Sinensis and BH were campaigning on the basis of lynching Grush. Any reason why you didn't think that was worth mentioning? Hey jaj, I do not think I have played in enough games to know the effectiveness on policy lynches. I played one game with grush, sinensis, and BH; as far as I can tell, this is only the second game where Sinensis and BH played with grush as well. I am fully aware how grush's play was destructive for town as well as either of them, but that was one game, and as all of us can see, grush is at least trying to change his playstyle. Does his alignment plays into this change in his meta? This is something I will watch for as the game progresses. Sinensis and BH's alliance is eye-catching for me, but not unreasonable given what happened last game. Waiting for your analysis on strong, ET. Thanks in advance. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
RE: Strongandbig This case is late (which will be sure to set of Wiggles' alarm bells :p) and ninja'd for the most part, but here are my reasons for wanting to lynch SnB. His campaign post has been already pointed out as strange. Why state "I am running for mayor b/c blue role is fun"? It appears that he doesn't care to run for mayor to help town; even when townies run for mayor off of bad reasoning, they at least appear focused in some aspect. SnB's campaign feels like a small conglomarate of generic reasons ("I will make cases. I will use pardoner role if I think it's ok but I will discuss it") that could easily be faked by a newbie scum. While generally I would think newbie scum (he has had around 4 games now though? he's breaking out) would be reluctant to go for a role, note that his original election campaign was only for the pardoner. The pardoner role has much less accountability (no lynch, no extra vote), while still having some sway. I could see his vet scum buddies not wanting to go for election b/c no bodyguards, and instead let SnB go for it. The majority of his filter is filled with posts like this, posts that don't really talk about much. While it is true that I have a long filter chock full of setup speculation, talking about general shit, etc., since I have a higher post count, I have the time to both post about that stuff, and post reads/opinions. In SnB's case, with his limited posting he has only posted one case, but worse so, he has posted very little opinions about anybody. He states that he thinks me and Wiggles look townie. Thanks bro, but that's about it. He states that he thinks supersoft is scummy, builds case. While his case isn't bad, it consists of "this turn by supersoft is not logical, therefore he is scum". Read this last paragraph from his case.+ Show Spoiler + This reads to me either like SS and Toad are scum buddies trying to distance themselves and got too far, or (more likely) like a scum SS saw an opportunity to gain town cred by making an actual good case on a player who was not being towny but wasn't on his scum team, then backing off when he realized that the presence of third parties like a lyncher hurts town and probably helps scum. It doesn't take much to see that the logic there is pretty convoluted. "looks like a scum SS saw he could make town cred, but backed off when he realized toad could be lyncher"? ... And even now, when given an opportunity to take a stance on someone (Sinensis), he is still waffly. No me gusta. Filter analysis seems to corroborate his scumminess. His filter from Wheel of Fortune. He talks about setup speculation in an extensive manner along with a plan (that code thing). Has opinions on several people D1. His filter from Space Station. Doesn't take stances on almost anyone, doesn't build much cases. Disclaimer: one of his first games. Lastly, the case doesn't feel too "easy". This is more of an abstract thing, but when a lynch seems to be proceeding too easily (tons of people agreeing easily except for one or more so mavericks), then it feels like a mislynch. Think Janaan from TL Mafia LI; who actually opposed that lynch? SnB has had some people indicate that they see SnB as "null" or "not scummy enough" to lynch atm. However, since the progenitors of the case are people that I currently trust, I have reason to believe that the resistance is healthy, and the case is strong. I will kill SnB if elected. Alternatively, if Wiggles is elected I hope he will pick SnB over Sinensis. | ||
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MajuGarzett
Canada635 Posts
On May 29 2012 05:54 Sinensis wrote: I honestly think grush is still the best target. I don't know where all this useful play people keep talking about is happening. All I have seen him do is count lurkers to make his contentless posts seem more substantial. I would be pretty sad if we lost someone who is actually posting when grush could have been in their place. I think it is suspicious that BlazingHand isn't still pushing for a grush vote too. This is something I think he would do if he was town, especially since grush hasn't really mentioned being targeted yet. BlazingHand has a reputation for pushing people until they just stop responding. Instead he backed off just as soon as I started to get attention for it. So, not changing my vote. By your logic any of the many lurkers would be a better lynch than grush. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
I know I'm probably guilty of this but reading through this thread and seeing so many people say they have a "null read" makes it look like people are being evasive, townies shouldn't be evasive. Here I'll give you some examples. Kenpachi is a true null read, he's barely posted and the stuff he has posted is just too vague to make a case about right now. On the other hand, sinensis should not be a null read (S&B this is directed at you). He's posted plenty and if you can't get a read on him then you're not trying hard enough. I'd like everyone to join me in discontinuing the phrase "null read." | ||
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