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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 26 2012 23:58 sylverfyre wrote: So now you're discounting my reasons too, saying I'm just sheeping? Can you address a single accusation made against you instead of just counter-accusing? Ok, give me a list of the accusations you have against me. I'm going to address them right away. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 27 2012 00:04 sylverfyre wrote: The tone you're employing indicates frustration - could be mafia 'i'm caught' frustration or townie 'why lynch me?' frustration but you're getting accused while throwing out lots of accusations and 0 defenses. Then you suddenly go silent on that issue. And inactive players ARE suspicious (and you can't automatically say whether they're more suspicious or less suspicious than another suspicious player, without providing concrete examples) so it's a moot question anyway. Not your only moot question (you've been called out for asking the "are you mafia?" pointless question, too.) @sylver I'm sorry but I didn't understand you meant with this post. Like not at all... Please take your time and gather your evidences. I'll defend myself after that. I'm not going to yell at you anymore  | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On October 27 2012 00:07 Djodref wrote: Ok that makes a little more sense. I'm thinking I might have misread your intentions for attacking them. My vote still stands but expect me to gather my thoughts on this matter in the coming hours.@Alsn I didn't attack them for lurking, I have attacked them because - Roco was posting nonsense - Inig was not showing any scumhunting in his posts, only fluff I didn't find something as suspicious as that in other players posts. Maybe the role-fishing question from sylver but that's all. Nevertheless, I understand your criticism better now. I would have appreciated if you have made this post before. And there is a difference between applying a policy and trying to find what is scummy. Even in lurker's posts. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 26 2012 21:35 sylverfyre wrote: Running under the assumption that imcasey and Roco get modkilled if they don't show up, I'd lynch Djo. You say Inig has a lack of scumhunting but scrutinizing people and saying that you can only read town out of them is not a lack of scumhunting. For now, I'm going with lynching the confusing lurker. If he either becomes A) not confusing, B) makes no action at all and makes me believe a modkill is incoming, or C) is replaced and the replacement can make some contribution. Vote Roco69 @sylver Not asking questions, not putting pressure on anyone and give only town reads is a total lack of scumhunting in my opinion. Remember that the easiest thing for mafia to give are townreads because they know our alignment. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On October 27 2012 00:10 Djodref wrote: Ok, give me a list of the accusations you have against me. I'm going to address them right away. On October 26 2012 23:49 sylverfyre wrote: Uh, I've said my reasons. I don't find your defenses/ignorance of accusations adequate, I don't like how you're like BLIND LURKER POLICY IS BAD when NOBODY was advocating blind lurker policy (last resort lurker policy) which pretty much was turning the discussion into a very useless one, then you turn around and start aggressively attacking Ini for lurking. Finally I don't like how you accuse Ini of "not scumhunting" when he makes some well-thought-out town-aligned reads (and some null-reads) To make it a more comprehensive list - poor responses to accusations in the past - "You sure are taking policy seriously" -> Attack lurkers aggressively (the contradiction inherent here) - accusing ini of "not scumhunting" when he posted his reads on people, simply because none of those reads were reads of scum (they were townie or null reads, and ini blatantly admitted such) - Inig was not showing any scumhunting in his posts, only fluff - Emotional levels running awfully high as people mount pressure on you, but not much defense from accusations. - "I don't care if alsn has a FOS on me" is your only defense against him for a long time. Only just now did you even acknowledge his accusations as legit. - Accusing me of sheeping when I've made it clear that I was suspicious of you pretty early. Since then, you've given me more reasons to suspect you. | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
On October 26 2012 13:42 Djodref wrote: + Show Spoiler + On October 26 2012 12:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: On your case Debears: You've reiterated some of what's been said, or what I have observed already. You did present some new information, though. In particular, the following quote that I cannot agree with: I have a little problem with this notion. You can definitely get a "town vibe" from somebody but not fully consider them town. Always being suspicious and vigilant, especially with no hard evidence like on d1, is wise. I don't think this is a valid point, to be honest. Despite this, Djodref has a mountain against him. One of your new points really stuck out to me: If Djodref really thinks Rad is scum, why let someone else pursue? If you have a read, go for it. Don't beat around the bush and go off into the distance. Being multi-focused is acceptable, it's confusing why Djo would just "let debears take care of it". It makes no sense, unless he somehow knows Debears is town. In terms of the scumslip, I'm still thinking that the reference to Do0ud being town is a scum tell. His explanation for it, while being entirely plausible, fails to convince me whatsoever. His saying "my main concern is finding mafia" also doesn't sit well. The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it. ##Vote: Djodref @Cheese Please specify which accusations/questions I couldn't address (please refer to the part in bold font in the spoiler). I'll try to answer adequately to them this time. The text you put in bold regarding my thoughts on you was, specifically, a reference to the point at which Rad was asking you about not changing your arguments on policy lynching. + Show Spoiler + On October 26 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote: @Rad I don't care, it's an argument about policy lynch. I don't even understand why you are putting such an interest in this. I'm not saying that I'm not going to change my mind about a player or a lynch or something important... What do you think about Inig's posts by the way ? On October 26 2012 09:23 Djodref wrote: @Rad by the way, His argument is good by my argument is better. Not going to change my mind. Are you satisfied ? The point that I find most interesting is when Rad says the bolded portion. Rad thinks it's scum mentality. Your only address on the issue is essentially that "I don't care if I look scummy, this discussion is pointless, and my arguement is better". Why are you so unwavering about your opinion in this matter? | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
I think we should lynch Daoud. He is posting just enough to be considered not a lurker. This level of activity is exactly what you want to lynch d1. He catches Djo in the classic "scumslip," which does not always indicate scum, but that's not important. "Why did you call me town djo?" Then he says oh there might be a sk I guess my point is invalid. Makes no sense. Bringing it up in the first place is a null tell, because it's an easy catch. But dropping it for such a stupid reason, that is scummy. This is his most significant post so far: On October 26 2012 22:41 da0ud wrote: Ebwop : sorry phone posting. Ill finsih the post : Deb and rad have been so active and poking at each otjers that they actually look very townie to me. Pushing ideas, bringing content, putting pressure. Talking about smileyDjo he has put a lot of pressure on people. Asking open questions etc. For having played a game with him where he played to nice lovable newbie card, I believe he is trying to step up and actually be a leader for town. I put him 90% town. I totally hate the lurkers who actually do not post anything and hide to avoid potential suspicions. Id rather lynch lurking townie first day who doesn't help get info and push others to scumslip. If scum are among active player we will have time to hunt them down. They will contradict themselves. And we have semi lurkers like roco or blending ini. Which are pretty much as bad for town. I would like to put my vote on Ini at the moment cause roco seems like a total newbie trying to stand out. ##Vote Ini So he gives off some town reads. Djo is 90% town... what the fuck. I don't see how you can think that after playing last game with him. Asking open questions makes him 90% town? ok I totally hate the lurkers who actually do not post anything and hide to avoid potential suspicions. Id rather lynch lurking townie first day who doesn't help get info and push others to scumslip. This is such a weird time to talk about lurkers, unless he is giving that as his reason for voting Ini, but Ini isn't even close to the biggest lurker. So why is he voting for ini? 2 words: "Blending in." Sick case bro. ##vote da0ud | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 26 2012 23:05 sylverfyre wrote: Early on, Djo, I felt a contradiction from you based on a combination of you criticizing the lurker policy + calling out a lurker. More recently, you've switched gears a lot and been unsatisfied in defenses mounted against your case. Finally just now claiming "not needing to consolidate" is fishy to me too. If we don't consolidate, we're going to have someone get lynched with like 3 votes, reducing scum's need to assist in the lynchwagon as well as improving scum ability to make sure one of their own cannot be lynched - so we're less likely to find scum today, but equally importantly, we would have less information later in the game (and could cause town to go rabid on itself) We want to consolidate. I dunno if mods have more replacements lined up, I sure hope so. Having 3 playerdrops happen on day 1 is really depressing to me. @sylver I understand that you can see this as a contradiction. It would have been better if you had brought it by yourself at that time rather than doing it right now but it's ok. I was calling Roco out because he was posting nonsense. I was hoping for him to post some more in response to this pressure rather than go back to lurk-land. I have been calling Inig out because his posts were lacking of scumhunting. He could have done it but he was preferring posting about what was going on in the thread. Still waiting to see where I've been switching gears a lot (not really sure to understand what that means). | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 27 2012 00:24 sylverfyre wrote: To make it a more comprehensive list - poor responses to accusations in the past be specific - "You sure are taking policy seriously" -> Attack lurkers aggressively (the contradiction inherent here) I attacked Roco because he was posting nonsense. Did I call him out for lurking ? I don't think so... Moreover, I couldn't have known at that time that he was going to lurk this hard. I attacked Inig for good reasons in my opinion. You should have commented my case about him if you were disagreeing. - accusing ini of "not scumhunting" when he posted his reads on people, simply because none of those reads were reads of scum (they were townie or null reads, and ini blatantly admitted such) Please check Inig's filter, he is admitting himself that he was not scumhunting when I called him out for it - Emotional levels running awfully high as people mount pressure on you, but not much defense from accusations. I'm pissed off because I'm spending my whole time defending myself and people like you are saying that I'm not - "I don't care if alsn has a FOS on me" is your only defense against him for a long time. Only just now did you even acknowledge his accusations as legit. It was a mistake to answer like this. But I still think that Alsn's FoS was not really founded. Moreover, I provoked him on purpose because I was suspicious of him for meta reasons. - Accusing me of sheeping when I've made it clear that I was suspicious of you pretty early. Since then, you've given me more reasons to suspect you. @sylver Thank you for preparing this list. My comments are in bold font in your quote. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
He seems much more careful about what he says this game than last game. Last games his posts were like WTF is this weird guy talking about. This game they look like he doesn't want to catch anyone's attention. Why we shouldn't lynch djodref today: He does look pretty scummy. But I don't see how anyone can have a lot of certainty in that read. Combination of high activity and low certainty means he should not lynch him. Also realize that djodref is in a position where he NEEDS to evolve his meta whether he is town or scum. His first game he played as a noob, understandable because it was his first game. His second game, he pretended to be a noob as a scum strat. I think showing that he is better than the newb he pretended to be last game would be the natural play for town djodref, and also scum djodref trying to appear as town djodref. Djo: who out of the active players seems scummiest to you? Also why did you bring up how you want to lynch a lurker without even trying to pressure your scumreads? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
regarding the sheeping part, I don't find anywhere in your filter the post when you make it clear that you are suspicious about me. Are you referring to this post ? On October 26 2012 00:52 sylverfyre wrote: I admit that my question may not have been as useful as it sounded in my head at the time. If you don't want to answer it, don't. I think that it's not completely useless, I found the information you gave me interesting, because I don't know you as a player but this isn't your first game. You're tunneling me pretty hard when you don't look particularly clean, yourself, Djo. How bout responding to some of the criticisms against yourself? You even asked a more useless question than mine "Are you mafia?" is the classical question to which the entire game responds in chorus, "No." | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 27 2012 00:42 kushm4sta wrote: More on daoud: He seems much more careful about what he says this game than last game. Last games his posts were like WTF is this weird guy talking about. This game they look like he doesn't want to catch anyone's attention. Why we shouldn't lynch djodref today: He does look pretty scummy. But I don't see how anyone can have a lot of certainty in that read. Combination of high activity and low certainty means he should not lynch him. Also realize that djodref is in a position where he NEEDS to evolve his meta whether he is town or scum. His first game he played as a noob, understandable because it was his first game. His second game, he pretended to be a noob as a scum strat. I think showing that he is better than the newb he pretended to be last game would be the natural play for town djodref, and also scum djodref trying to appear as town djodref. Djo: who out of the active players seems scummiest to you? Also why did you bring up how you want to lynch a lurker without even trying to pressure your scumreads? @Kush Debears and Rad are looking quite ok. I'm leaning town for both of them. I'm waiting for Cheese to post what he has to say about me because I'm still null on him. I didn't like some posts from sylver but he had some nice reactions during our latest fight. I need some time to look at dandel. I didn't like the way he voted Inig, but he said he was not sure even. I would say sylver right now... But I've been spending too much time defending myself. I need to calm down and re-read some filters for a while. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Him posting some nonsense about the possibility of a SK just after totally fits his meta. He needs to post a lot more though... | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
In my opinion, he had a positive response after my case against him. I doubt that he could be a scum after that. His role claim was looking really sincere. If he can improve his presence in the thread and his scumhunting, I don't want to lynch him. I'm going to unvote him. I would cast my vote on Roco or imcasey if they magically reappear. I'll wake up early tomorrow to see if the bandwagon is still against me or not. If you are town, do not sheep and cast your vote against me. Read my filter and make your own opinion by yourself. You are going to feel some heat if you cast your vote too lightly because I'm going to flip green. I'm sorry but I need some sleep guys ## Unvote | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I'm inclined to agree with kush wrt to da0ud. I definitely reacted much in a similar way when I read the 90% town comment but more than that I feel like he is too concerned with pointing out to people that he "cares" about the town. Such as here where he feels the need to point out that it's worrying that we are already one less town. On October 26 2012 23:07 da0ud wrote: One thing worries me and seems to have caught no ones attention. Clarity has been modkilled!! We are already one less town!! And he was posting actual content. Or here where he feels the need to point out that he was "right" to criticise the whole confidence deal. On October 26 2012 22:33 da0ud wrote: As I was expecting in the beginning we are having a hard time finding with "confidence" scum. Both posts are screaming of "posting for the sake of seeming active and helpful" more than actually being helpful. In summary, I feel that even on the off chance that Djod is scum, so far he has at the very least helped town in that he has pressured players into participating, which at the very least is good for the town atmosphere. There's of course the risk that he's deliberately pressuring townies into seeming suspicious, but for now I think that's a chance I'm willing to take. ##Unvote ##Vote: da0ud | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
I responded to your post already, sir. @ Kush Interesting take on Da0ud. I don't like his voting of Inig at all, especially when Inig has debunked arguments in a concise manner and has begun to ask questions as of late. I really need Da0ud to post more before I can get a concrete read on him. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 27 2012 00:59 sylverfyre wrote: Yes, I was referring to that part. I had an FOS on Roco that I didn't really want to retract at the time, and wasn't certain about having multiple FOS out at the time. I have since asked about the rules on that, and been informed that multiple FOS are perfectly fine. sylver Ok. Your suspicion about me is stated in that post but it is in no way clearly stated. What do you think about my defense. Any comments ? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
@Kush Welcome! I'll read over your case on dauod and look at his filter. Also, I would like your thoughts on my case and Rad's case on Djo. Right now, I see two scumslips by Djo (read the case). Also, Djo is a player that I believe if fully capable of being active as scum. The cases are both around the modkill time for Clarity. @Alsn and Slyverfyre While I agree that Djo is suspicious, what I find alarming is how neither of you mention the cases that Rad and I laid out on him. Your reasoning seems weak at a first glance. I will reread though and see if I'm missing something. Meanwhile, look over the cases on Djo by me and rad. @Djo I have some thoughts on Alsn and Inig right now, as well as some things I need to talk about with you on my case on you. Give me a little bit and I'll have it posted | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On Alsn The main part of Alsn's case is his meta and his FOS on you. In terms of meta, Alsn has not been fitting his activity and involvement of the last game when he was town. However, he has stated suitable IRL reasons and has recently picked up his activity level with his active discussion with others. Right now, his meta is a null tell. Then, with the FOS. I believe his FOS was suitable. He was wishy washy quite a bit last game. It seems to me more indicative of his looking at both sides of the motivation behind posts. Alsn is a null read right now. I expect him to pick up his activity level day 2. If he doesn't, then we can do something about it. Lynching him today is a poor option. | ||
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