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Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
October 26 2012 13:23 GMT
#501
@sylver

Could you please explain your reasons for me to be your backup vote ?
da0ud
Profile Joined April 2011
Hong Kong252 Posts
October 26 2012 13:33 GMT
#502
Sorry I am just back. I have been away of HK and have no internet connection. Using wifi now to post.

As I was expecting in the beginning we are having a hard time finding with "confidence" scum.
Deb and rad have been so active and poking at each otjers tht
Alsn
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden995 Posts
October 26 2012 13:37 GMT
#503
Also, I'd like to clarify why I don't consider Inig a candidate as things stand. The two people voting him are a) Djodref whom I consider suspicious. As well as b) Dandel Ion who's case I consider to be pretty OMGUS.

In fact, Dandel states that he finds Inig's play worrying due to him not taking any stances on anything but when Inig finally does(shares a lot of his reads, some town and with Dandel as his main scum read) Dandel goes around and votes him right away. I'm hesitant to call this anything else than an emotional knee-jerk response, but in any case I don't find it a particularly compelling argument as to why I should vote for Inig.
Machina improba! Vel mihi ede potum vel mihi redde nummos meos!
da0ud
Profile Joined April 2011
Hong Kong252 Posts
October 26 2012 13:41 GMT
#504
Ebwop : sorry phone posting. Ill finsih the post :

Deb and rad have been so active and poking at each otjers that they actually look very townie to me. Pushing ideas, bringing content, putting pressure.

Talking about smileyDjo he has put a lot of pressure on people. Asking open questions etc. For having played a game with him where he played to nice lovable newbie card, I believe he is trying to step up and actually be a leader for town. I put him 90% town.

I totally hate the lurkers who actually do not post anything and hide to avoid potential suspicions. Id rather lynch lurking townie first day who doesn't help get info and push others to scumslip.

If scum are among active player we will have time to hunt them down. They will contradict themselves.

And we have semi lurkers like roco or blending ini. Which are pretty much as bad for town.

I would like to put my vote on Ini at the moment cause roco seems like a total newbie trying to stand out.

##Vote Ini
Alsn
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden995 Posts
October 26 2012 13:43 GMT
#505
@da0ud
Seeing as you've said very little so far, I'd appreciate it if you could tell us what you think with regards to the current lynch candidates. If nothing else, It would give the rest of us some insight into what you think. If you have a different case to make that is fine too, but we all have very little information as to what you think right now.
Machina improba! Vel mihi ede potum vel mihi redde nummos meos!
Alsn
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden995 Posts
October 26 2012 13:44 GMT
#506
EBWOP: Now I feel silly...
Machina improba! Vel mihi ede potum vel mihi redde nummos meos!
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
October 26 2012 13:47 GMT
#507
Man, I did get a bit emotional, I admit, but I really do consider him scummy. Not just because he accused me specifically.

I can see, however, that Ingi lynch will probably not go through today, since nobody wants to support it.

I'm keeping my vote on him for now (because, conversely, I don't find the Djo suspicions to be too compelling) and I still have hope that maybe some people will look at it the same way.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Alsn
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden995 Posts
October 26 2012 13:50 GMT
#508
Hang on, what? da0ud I'd like you to explain why you think Inig "blending in" is suspicious enough to vote him, yet you don't even mention myself? If anything, I'm far more guilty of "blending in" than Inig and I get the feeling that you're just sheeping right now.
Machina improba! Vel mihi ede potum vel mihi redde nummos meos!
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
October 26 2012 13:56 GMT
#509
On October 26 2012 22:50 Alsn wrote:
Hang on, what? da0ud I'd like you to explain why you think Inig "blending in" is suspicious enough to vote him, yet you don't even mention myself? If anything, I'm far more guilty of "blending in" than Inig and I get the feeling that you're just sheeping right now.

What puzzles me is that he still brings that up, even though it's not really true anymore.

I mean, I think Inig probably scum, but not because of lurking or whatever, but because his case + the casey vote smell like scumplay to me.

daoud, I expect better reasoning than that.
It really gets me paranoid when people sheep on cases like you did, this early in the game.

Man, I'm even less sure of anything now.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
October 26 2012 13:56 GMT
#510
On October 26 2012 22:47 Dandel Ion wrote:
Man, I did get a bit emotional, I admit, but I really do consider him scummy. Not just because he accused me specifically.

I can see, however, that Ingi lynch will probably not go through today, since nobody wants to support it.

I'm keeping my vote on him for now (because, conversely, I don't find the Djo suspicions to be too compelling) and I still have hope that maybe some people will look at it the same way.


@Dandel

We have plurality lynch system, so we don't need to consolidate, and I have no idea how many people are actually going to vote today...
Could you tell us more about why you want to lynch Ini ?
da0ud
Profile Joined April 2011
Hong Kong252 Posts
October 26 2012 14:03 GMT
#511
@ dandel and alan.

Yes this is not entirely true anymore I agree.
However I believe he is still blending in.
I dun hv a computer to put a real case on him with proper formatting.
I think he is still lurking (at least as much as he can without being caught by lurking policy).
His defense was pretty weak and dandel your case on him does summarize well the odd point that stand out of his posts since he has come to defend himself.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
October 26 2012 14:05 GMT
#512
Early on, Djo, I felt a contradiction from you based on a combination of you criticizing the lurker policy + calling out a lurker. More recently, you've switched gears a lot and been unsatisfied in defenses mounted against your case.

Finally just now claiming "not needing to consolidate" is fishy to me too. If we don't consolidate, we're going to have someone get lynched with like 3 votes, reducing scum's need to assist in the lynchwagon as well as improving scum ability to make sure one of their own cannot be lynched - so we're less likely to find scum today, but equally importantly, we would have less information later in the game (and could cause town to go rabid on itself) We want to consolidate.

I dunno if mods have more replacements lined up, I sure hope so. Having 3 playerdrops happen on day 1 is really depressing to me.
da0ud
Profile Joined April 2011
Hong Kong252 Posts
October 26 2012 14:05 GMT
#513
I did put my vote now because I have very little chance to get the internet much until deadline.
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
October 26 2012 14:07 GMT
#514
On October 26 2012 22:56 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 22:47 Dandel Ion wrote:
Man, I did get a bit emotional, I admit, but I really do consider him scummy. Not just because he accused me specifically.

I can see, however, that Ingi lynch will probably not go through today, since nobody wants to support it.

I'm keeping my vote on him for now (because, conversely, I don't find the Djo suspicions to be too compelling) and I still have hope that maybe some people will look at it the same way.


@Dandel

We have plurality lynch system, so we don't need to consolidate, and I have no idea how many people are actually going to vote today...
Could you tell us more about why you want to lynch Ini ?

You just HAVE to ask this while I'm getting second thoughts about it...


My case, combined with my defense of his post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466&currentpage=25#482
I should probably have split the two better, I guess.

What made my originally suspicious (apart from the whole not-doing-anything he did for a long time), I explained here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466&currentpage=20#382
I didn't word to too agressively, because just this one thing wouldn't make him scum alone.

But, both of those factors combined, he's (still) my stronged scumread right now.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
da0ud
Profile Joined April 2011
Hong Kong252 Posts
October 26 2012 14:07 GMT
#515
One thing worries me and seems to have caught no ones attention.
Clarity has been modkilled!! We are already one less town!! And he was posting actual content.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
October 26 2012 14:11 GMT
#516
On October 26 2012 23:05 sylverfyre wrote:
Early on, Djo, I felt a contradiction from you based on a combination of you criticizing the lurker policy + calling out a lurker. More recently, you've switched gears a lot and been unsatisfied in defenses mounted against your case.

Finally just now claiming "not needing to consolidate" is fishy to me too. If we don't consolidate, we're going to have someone get lynched with like 3 votes, reducing scum's need to assist in the lynchwagon as well as improving scum ability to make sure one of their own cannot be lynched - so we're less likely to find scum today, but equally importantly, we would have less information later in the game (and could cause town to go rabid on itself) We want to consolidate.

I dunno if mods have more replacements lined up, I sure hope so. Having 3 playerdrops happen on day 1 is really depressing to me.


Please tell me the points you think I have been addressing in an unsatisfactory way. Same for you, Cheese, by the way.
If you are town, I recommend you to give better explanations than this for possibly voting me because it is going to backfire on you.
What do you mean exactly by "switching gears a lot" ?
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
October 26 2012 14:14 GMT
#517
On October 26 2012 23:05 sylverfyre wrote:
Early on, Djo, I felt a contradiction from you based on a combination of you criticizing the lurker policy + calling out a lurker. More recently, you've switched gears a lot and been unsatisfied in defenses mounted against your case.

Finally just now claiming "not needing to consolidate" is fishy to me too. If we don't consolidate, we're going to have someone get lynched with like 3 votes, reducing scum's need to assist in the lynchwagon as well as improving scum ability to make sure one of their own cannot be lynched - so we're less likely to find scum today, but equally importantly, we would have less information later in the game (and could cause town to go rabid on itself) We want to consolidate.

I dunno if mods have more replacements lined up, I sure hope so. Having 3 playerdrops happen on day 1 is really depressing to me.


Why should scum assist the "lynchwagon" (it is bandwagon by the way) ? If we are going to lynch a scum today, don't you think that they are going to try to go against the bandwagon ?


sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
October 26 2012 14:15 GMT
#518
On October 26 2012 23:07 da0ud wrote:
One thing worries me and seems to have caught no ones attention.
Clarity has been modkilled!! We are already one less town!! And he was posting actual content.

I just noticed this too... I don't know how. I didn't notice that until I saw it on the front page. I then checked Clarity's filter and saw nothing. Had to check mod's filter to find it. Sigh...
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
October 26 2012 14:22 GMT
#519
On October 26 2012 23:05 sylverfyre wrote:
Early on, Djo, I felt a contradiction from you based on a combination of you criticizing the lurker policy + calling out a lurker. More recently, you've switched gears a lot and been unsatisfied in defenses mounted against your case.

Finally just now claiming "not needing to consolidate" is fishy to me too. If we don't consolidate, we're going to have someone get lynched with like 3 votes, reducing scum's need to assist in the lynchwagon as well as improving scum ability to make sure one of their own cannot be lynched - so we're less likely to find scum today, but equally importantly, we would have less information later in the game (and could cause town to go rabid on itself) We want to consolidate.

I dunno if mods have more replacements lined up, I sure hope so. Having 3 playerdrops happen on day 1 is really depressing to me.


Who are the three players who are going to drop, according to you ?

Are you even reading this thread ?
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
October 26 2012 14:26 GMT
#520
How can you possibly ask what accusations you're answering insufficiently? You're straight up ignoring them!

On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:
My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such).

The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you.

So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref.

I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then.


On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 10:08 Clarity_nl wrote:
So.... you're trying to get a strong response by asking what Alsn thinks Inig, which he has done to two other people before him. So what's the reason you brushed off his FoS?

On October 26 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
@debears

You've used the word confidence an excessive amount of times. When someone mentioned day 1 policy lynches you immediately dismissed the idea. In fact, whenever anyone suggested something you turned it down, pushing your idea of "if you have a read, push it hard"

Policy lynching on day 1 exists for a reason. Lurkers hurt the town, whether they are mafia or town. If no one takes action mafia will win. Town needs to be organized and decisive, yet you are suggesting to basically follow your gut and push hard.
You follow that up by voting for Rad WAAAAAAY too early in the day.

You are advocating chaos.

If something is fishy, or a comment seems off, make a read or ask a question about it, but big bold statements like "be confident guys!!!" don't actually mean anything.

##FoS debears


@Clarity

I don't think that debears is advocating chaos. In my point of view, he is certainly promoting discussion. We could as well being still discussing policy lynches if he wasn't here. And please remind that it's quite easy for mafia to avoid a policy lynch.

By the way, do you believe that we can lynch a scum on D1 ?
What do you think of Inig ?


On October 26 2012 02:04 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:45 Dandel Ion wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:42 Djodref wrote:
@Rad

My comments in red in your quoted post.

On October 26 2012 01:28 Rad wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:21 debears wrote:
Ok. But what individually makes us stand out as scum?

I'm going to reread the thread a couple of times tonight and figure this all out.

##Unvote


This is some of what I've got from you and/or djo

1. Pushed the confidence theme hard, as if to make it seem like we NEED to have a scum lynch d1 rather than a policy lurker lynch.
FUUUUUuuu. You are doing it again. Policy lynching is just an option and it is a bad option in my opinion because mafia can avoid it easily, especially when town decides to apply this strategy from the beginning. Lynching a suspicious player get us more chances to lynch mafia. We should start to scumhunt in order to do so, not throwing FoS at each other for disagreeing over policy.
2. Acted overconfident as if it was easy to make a scum read on d1 (is it? doesn't seem like it, and that's not due to lack of confidence, it's due to lack of information).
I'm not saying it is easy, I'm saying it is totally possible and you should have this mentality rather than the policy lynch solution mentality. Would you like to comment about Inig by the way ?
3. Twisted people's statements, either responding with something that had nothing to do with the original statement, or focusing heavily on a particular statement as if to give it more importance than it really should have.
Please be more specific
All of these things feel scummy to me.


You don't get it.

You establish a lurker-lynch policy early.
Potential lurkers see it and go all "oh shit if I lurk I'm gonna die"
So they don't lurk.

If you say "nah I'm completely against lynching lurkers" or "We should lynch the most active people"
What do lurkers do when they see that?
They'll tell themselves "cool, I'm set"
And then they lurk.


I'm not against a policy lynch but I think it would be better to bring it up when the right time comes (like 6 hours before the lynch ? anyway at a time we can finally identify some serious lurker).

Taking an early decision against or for policy lynches is just going to help mafia to use this decision on their favor.
Anyway, a lot of people seem to favor a policy lynch for today. I'm not going to go against it but I would appreciate these people to get into super scumhunting mode right now. I'm not going to forgive laziness at all, especially if you are supporting a policy lynch.

By the way, what do you think about Inig ?

On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:
My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such).

The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you.

So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref.

I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then.


@Alsn

I would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me
What do you think about Inig ?





Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini.
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