EPTNewbie Mini XII - Page 27
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On May 09 2012 09:04 paschl wrote: unbalanced much? you had a medic and a detective. Don't blame me for town's awful play | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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paschl
Germany666 Posts
On May 09 2012 09:06 Mattchew wrote: you had a medic and a detective. Don't blame me for town's awful play uh a detective. in a game with a godfather and a framer. thats useful. and maybe im just bitter, its true the town didnt play well but if you want to tell me that this setup is well balanced id seriously question your oppinion. | ||
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dahdum
United States46 Posts
I was very active in the QT thread....the idea was to be sketchy enough to get Tofu to check & clear me, while avoiding an outright lynch. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On May 09 2012 09:07 paschl wrote: uh a detective. in a game with a godfather and a framer. thats useful. and maybe im just bitter, its true the town didnt play well but if you want to tell me that this setup is well balanced id seriously question your oppinion. If everyone had not claimed, DT coulda "cleared" 2 people or hit 1 scum out of 6 people. Gummy did heal the DT everynight i believe (i have to go back and check) and you guys had 3 terrible lynches. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
Personally I want newbie games to stop depending on blue roles even in this game, anyone who was scum hunting basically pegged Dahdum and Ange as scum Also, towns no-lynch day 1 was so bad | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
In our game the loud/eccentric townie got killed quite early. I wonder if this made a difference. More experienced towns find it easier to deal with players like Gummy than newbie towns, I feel. Edit: this is not me blaming Gummy for town's loss btw. Just saying it can be hard for newbie towns. | ||
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dahdum
United States46 Posts
First day no-lynch was pretty awesome. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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paschl
Germany666 Posts
the 9er games i play have one cop and no mafia power roles. and if there are other power roles theyre written out. i think having a godfather AND framer in the same game without explicitly stating it makes it imbalanced. but thats just my 2 cents. it makes the cop basically useless. the medic is ridiculously strong though, gotta give you that. although what can the medic do but protect the useless cop? and fwiw ive been after dahdum the whole game, didnt suspect ange tho. id also like to get some outside voice on gummys play. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
Then I turned my attention to Tofu as a result of his willingness to reveal after a medic claimed. It seemed like this game was mostly townies making stupid decisions regarding role claims and votes, and me yelling at everybody, and then everybody getting mad that I was yelling at everybody. Fun game. I think my next game isn't going to be a newbie mini, though. Don't know if my heart can take this! | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On May 09 2012 09:07 paschl wrote: uh a detective. in a game with a godfather and a framer. thats useful. and maybe im just bitter, its true the town didnt play well but if you want to tell me that this setup is well balanced id seriously question your oppinion. This is why you rely on hunting scum and power roles. I was playing the game from a players perspective see if you think the game is still imba after reading analysis. | ||
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dahdum
United States46 Posts
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HarbingerOfDoom
United States508 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:59 Gummy wrote: List of hypothesized roles and corresponding claims: Townies: 1 Detective 1 Medic 2 Vanilla Townie - Gummy, Paschl 2 Other roles? Scum 1 Framer - Ange777 1 Rolecop teehee Also the day one claims were awful, especially the fake claim medic from town. With gummy being the actual medic I can't really blame him for thinking claw was scum. Tofu, you were basically begging for them to either roleblock you or frame your targets depending on which power role they had by claiming day one. Or for scum to just shoot you. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Day 1 1.) Dahdum + Show Spoiler + -Shares notes of summary of the game, not really helpful. Easy way to post as scum. Could be newbie scum not knowing what to talk about. But he should have something to say about the claim no? Vague, and non committal. Scum. 2.) Gummy (claim medic) + Show Spoiler + -Playing anti town, spamming up the thread with fluffy posts, trying to bring out role claims, and guess the set-up, most active poster right now. Wants to lay low. Suspects Paschl. Not sure if newbie scum would post this much. Requests medic right away. Very cocky. -Votes claimed medic, reasoning, bad claim. (see LIII for reference of why this is bad) -Claims medic himself??? So confused right now. -Lists and polls and spam, and avoiding and scum hunting. -Counter claims Medic, this proves my feeling about Claw lieing - Making way too much assumptions -You kill SCUM, you DONT kill bad town. This sub optimal play theory is bullshit. 3.) AcesRequiem + Show Spoiler + - Posting useful stuff, about the claim possibility, needs to scum hunt. -Wants to vote claimed blues... wat. (this is before triangle of blue) -seems town 4.) Matriarch + Show Spoiler + -claims vanilla, just lurking 5.) DeMorcerf + Show Spoiler + - Posting legit thoughts on important things. Transparent. Townie. 6.) FirmTofu (claims DT) + Show Spoiler + - Thinks gummy and claw are town. Dislikes Paschl. Angee is scum, doesn’t say why. - Could be scum, trying to get attention away from themselves by buddying with super active, and claimed blue. (since scum might shoot blue tonight) Picks a target for no reason. -Claims dt, asks claw to heal him. So he will get one night of checks. And after night 2 both blues will be dead if the claims are true. -Motivations as town: Wants to get Medic protection, doesn’t realize the limitations of one check after killing both the medic and DT -_-. -Motivations as scum: Stays alive for first few days, can use fake check to direct the lynch. Can soak up a medic protect. Can bring out the real DT. -Ballsy move to fake claim DT with sanity guaranteed as scum as one first mislynch check confirms you as scum, I think it is legit. -Possibility that they are both scum, really doubt it cause of their obvious connection -Firmtofu is missing alot of logic, he is forgetting about RB and assuming town has 2 medics and a dt. -His meta got him killed for bad town play before. -towns motivation is to kill scum, NOT stay alive. 7.) Clawtrocity (claim medic) + Show Spoiler + -Claims medic on first post....says hes ONE of the medics, trying to protect himself from insta lynch if counter claim. Saving his own ass as scum? Saying he is might be mafia trying to catch a shot, saying he is going to protect dt. If not dead night 2 he is scum. Calls out gummy. -Motivations for doing this as town: is VT trying to grab night shot. -Motivations for doing as scum: Keep yourself alive first couple days. Trying to grab a counter role claim. No real proof required for medic. Just always say you mis-medic’d. -I doubt a scum would draw attention to themselves like this on first post. -admits his claim was fake, votes gummy wat is this I don’t even. 8.) paschl + Show Spoiler + -Doesn’t use newbie card, isn’t afraid to post. Calls Gummy town. Disagrees with gummy. -Paschl starts off with useless list, but actually does the first hint of scum hunting in this game. Lines up with my thoughts. Townie. 9.) Ange777 + Show Spoiler + - Two smiley faces doesn’t contribute to the thread. Trying too hard to look town scumscumscum. Calls Gummy out on his scummy role claiming idea. Lurking. -Defensive towards gummy for no reason. General Thoughts: If the two claims are actually true, town has already lost this game. They will be so demoralized by losing both blues in two nights, and it’s not like they are scum hunting at the moment. If one claim is fake it should be an easy one scum for the town. If FirmTofu and Claw aren’t both dead night 2 lynch into them. Its too risky for mafia not to lynch Claw night 1 now. As they can’t leave a co-operating DT medic combo alive. ATM I think both are telling the truth or claw is lying. Claiming roles is so bad this early in the game no matter what the circumstances, if you lie, everyone thinks your scum, it just causes so much confusion. Also, mafia already has 90% of the information, only thing they don’t have is who is blue and what roles are in the game, and town wants to give them this information? Why? Its town’s ONLY information edge over scum. Town is 24 Hours into the game, Nobody is scum hunting/Discussing who to lynch. The pressure has been on nobody. I think only Paschl has made a legit case, not just saying I think this person is scummy. Someone needs to pressure gummy, to see if he is just playing bad town, or purposely screwing up all discussion in the thread. Gummy counter claims medic..I think he is telling the truth. However, it could be gummy being a really smart scum with the counter claim, convince a lynch onto Claw, who flips medic, then you lose a medic and DT in one cycle. Claw is most likely playing some badly thought out vanilla. The detective role is already wasted, mafia should have RB, and RB the detective and kill the medic. Then kill the detective night 2. Aka, detective gets 0 reports, useless. People still aren’t really scum hunting, its more of policy lynch all liars. Basing everything on roles, and not actually mafia agenda and scummy action. No pressure on lurkers to post at all. Mafia is probably laughing right now as Town vs Town kill themselves fast. Although I think gummy is medic and claw isn’t, claws “claim” looked totally fake, it seemed like a VT trying to take a hit over the real medic. This fake claim makes no sense as mafia, its pretty obvious there won’t be 2 medics in 9 person game, so a counter claim would kill half their team, with no pressure on them. However, he seems to be protecting his ass from counter claim by saying there might be 2 medics. I think this fake claim was bad town play, and lured out the town detective and medic. If town is lucky there is no RB (doubt it). Kill dahdum, let mafia kill the medic, and get a report on claw to see if he is VT or scum. The only problem with this is possibility of a GF, might give back false report. The reason to check claw, is because if gummy flips medic it does not mean claw is auto scum. If claw flips scum, this does mean gummy is most likely medic. If scum believes gummy over claw (if they both are town) then scum will RB gummy and kill the detective night 1. Making gummy look bad for not protecting the DT. About the no-lynch, I think it is a better option than lynching into the claims at this point. I would like to see a lynch into dahdum or a lurker/semi lurker. No scum-hunting for all of day 1, Hurrah! I would like to put most the blame on gummy, for spamming the thread and being so cocky, but no one even tried to scum hunt. Boo. Also, Gummy is being annoying and playing anti-town, it doesn’t mean he is scum, he should start engaging pressure and scum hunting rather than spam. Pretty suicidal unproductive day one, but the way people reacted to the claims will give more information when people start showing up dead. If mafia doesn’t kill the three claimers they will kill DeMorcaf. They will not kill gummy as he is causing more harm and confusion and helping the mafia. They might not want to kill claw because no one believes him, and this situation is leaving town confused. They can’t kill Firmtofu, unless they 100% know the medic. RB him and kill firmtofu, which means one medic is scum. Night 1 General Thoughts: The continuation of no helpful discussion creeps into the night, except that now, no one is posting for the full night cycle. No further reads can be established, I hope a couple people will post there last minute reads with at least a couple thought out cases and situations before nights end. Mafia killed DeMorcaf. Interesting, lets wait to see what the claimers say, it is much more likely that 2 of them are lieing now. FirmTofu will probably give back a townie. I can’t see him actually being a DT and getting back a check, I think mafia has a RB unless they forgot to use it. Unless Firmtofu is lieing about his claim, which is really risky as mafia. Day 2 1.) Dahdum + Show Spoiler + -calls firmtofu out for his bad check -first to bring up idea of no lynch again -still scum 2.) Gummy + Show Spoiler + -frustrated starting to post somewhat better but not pressuring anyone, seems concerned most likely actually medic. 3.) AcesRequiem + Show Spoiler + -inactive, either laughing scum, or doesn’t care about game 4.) Matriarch + Show Spoiler + -apparently checks out town, inactive as fuck 6.) FirmTofu + Show Spoiler + -checked matriarch returned town, makes no sense cause mafia didn’t RB..... Its an okay check since the person is unknown but why not check a semi lurker? 7.) Clawtrocity + Show Spoiler + -Claw still doesn’t understand that there is not 2 medics and a DT for sure. He is still saying things like mafia too scared to kill in this love triangle. Really makes no sense, seeming more and more scum. 8.) paschl + Show Spoiler + -paschl is using tons of WIFOM, which is fine for starting discussion for the day, seems genuinely concerned, townie. 9.) Ange777 + Show Spoiler + -Brings up good points want to lynch either gummy or claw, cant rely on mafia to solve this General Thoughts: This no lynch really hurt them, if it is true that mafia has no role blocker, and there is a medic alive then town is in an okay situation, they have another free check tonight. Looks like another no-lynch no one is talking about anything. Pressuring players hasn’t been figured out by most players, and consolidating on a person to vote won’t happen. Another free mafia kill. Im having a hard time getting any reads because of no discussion. Another no lynch is fine, cause if Firmtofu is telling the truth, he can get another free check cause mafia obviously doesn’t have RB, and one of the medics can keep him protected until mafia kills the blues. Lynching into the medics is a really bad idea if town believes the DT claim, because if you hit the wrong one, you let mafia kill the DT. Night 2 General Thoughts: Nothing happened lol Day 3 General Thoughts/Notes: Interesting, Matriach was killed. This makes little sense, Matriach was not contributing anything to the game. The only reason she would be killed is because she was a confirmed townie. Mafia could be scared of a medic, and that is why they are not killing the DT. But to me the game cannot be balanced with a DT and medic without a RB. There is a strong possibility that FirmTofu lied about his DT claim and kill Matriach to give himself town credit. I wouldn’t necessarily trust anything he says. If mafia doesn’t have a RB, then there is a good chance the only blue town has is one medic or one DT. This gameplay has been too focused on ROLES and not scumhunting so its impossible to get a decent read on anyone. FirmTofu could be faking DT to get swing late game, and killed Matriach for his town credit and to waste towns medic on him all game, using this as an excuse to why scum never killed him. One of Gummy or FirmTofu should be scum, if not all logic just falls apart in this game. Despite all these comments, since its currently 4-2 the only logical action to to no lynch and let scum help the numbers, imo. Even though the night kill probably won’t reveal anything. I still think gummy is medic unfortunately. Scum will actually probably be players that did nothing all game. ^^Everything in here was in game on the fly, I did not mean to offend anyone at all. Do not take offense please. Use this analysis to help your thought process and to get better at the game. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Here is some general town advice. DONT RELY ON POWER ROLES! Scum hunt. Push reads. Pressure players. Generate discussion. Gather more evidence. Repeat. When thinking about finding scum, think about it like this, Scum motivation for doing/saying this? Town motivation for doing/saying this? If you are unsure of a players opinion get them to clarify. If they are scum they could slip up. You may be reading a town players poor writing wrong. Read the guides please. I don't think anyone in this game read the guides or didn't follow their advice. Don't worry, its your first game. You will get better. If I had to pick MVP of the game: Pascl -> Would have been demorcef but he died so quickly. That doesn't mean the play was good, it just was better than others. | ||
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