• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 02:34
CET 08:34
KST 16:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT28Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2
StarCraft 2
General
Terran AddOns placement How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) WardiTV Team League Season 10 RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
Soma Explains: JD's Unrelenting Aggro vs FlaSh Recent recommended BW games TvZ is the most complete match up BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02
Tourneys
BWCL Season 64 Announcement The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Online Quake Live Config Editor Tool Diablo 2 thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Just Watchers: Why Some Only…
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2251 users

DQs: Dimaga, Reason, Sarens, Vasilisk - Page 27

Forum Index > TSL2 Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 Next All
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
December 17 2009 01:13 GMT
#521
I see, thanks for the new information, as I do not have those facts when I construct my argument. i guess1 explanation for the lack of playing from F91 would be his miss judgement on how high the rating of top12 cut off would be. The other explanation could be that he planed to cheat from the beginning and didn't care how far he drop off top 12, and finally the most logical explanation is that he's just a slacker
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
NeCroPoTeNce
Profile Joined July 2009
United States513 Posts
December 17 2009 03:21 GMT
#522
damn, these guys are pros at catching abusers O.O
zerg all the way! Lee Jaedong hwaiting
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 17 2009 03:25 GMT
#523
On December 17 2009 09:57 rei wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2009 13:16 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
F91 didn't get caught, he admitted when asked about it. F91 is truly the only one who has a legit complaints of being dodged as all of TSL avoided him because of lag and maybe skill as well. A deadly combo that no one is to blame for.

It made it a very hard ladder for him, harder than for the others, but F91 and Ash were well aware and informed about this in advance of the ladder. We all knew this was going to be the case for him before he joined so there was nothing new there. When offered half-way to use a smurf he declined because it wasn't needed. They said it would be no problem getting top 12 playing vs Koreans and it seemed like that was going to hold true till F91 stopped playing.

Near the end they requested to smurf but with so little time left we denied the request because this close to the deadline we felt it wouldn't be fair to opponents not to be aware of who they were facing, as losing 1 or 2 games could make a huge difference on the final 2 days.

None of this should ever be an excuse to abuse. The only people who really get dodged are the ones good enough to beat all the Koreans (F91, Ret, Idra, White-ra). Not TSL-Reason don't make me laugh. Being good enough to be dodged means you are good enough to make it regardless, unless you refuse to put sufficient time in.


Plz don't ban F91 from future TL events
facts:
1) F91 needed top 12 because of timing of Q3 is near the official TLSL2 event.
2) F91 made it to top 12 by playing all koreans
3) F91 stop playing because he thought he is already secured top 12
4) Others in top 12 abused the ladder very late in the ladder stage to inflate the Top 12 cut off rating
5) F91 needed to get back into top12, but time is now a huge factor.
6) F91 is being dodged by all foreigners in the latter stage of the ladder. ( they requested a smurf account as a result, but was denied)
7) F91 asked friend to help him with abusing the ladder, as it was impossible to get back to top 12 with the inflated rating and the time that was left.
8) F91 straight up replied "yes I abused" when asked about this situation, And he didn't attempt to explain himself with the above 7 other facts.


dimaga and yosh were the only 2 in the top 12 who were caught abusing and their removal dropped the cutoff by around 20 points.
everyone good was dodged and its his own fault he didnt play enough to secure a spot when he knew he had to get top 12. first time he was asked he denied it, ash posted that.
if the other abusers are banned from tl events he should be too.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
December 17 2009 03:38 GMT
#524
On December 17 2009 12:25 IdrA wrote:
dimaga and yosh were the only 2 in the top 12 who were caught abusing


is there a hint there somewhere on that line suggesting they are not the only one abusing, but were only ones that were caught? Just making sure
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 17 2009 03:45 GMT
#525
id expect there were at least some others, but no i dont actually know of anyone else who cheated
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27166 Posts
December 17 2009 04:52 GMT
#526
I don't think anyone believes that 100% of the cheaters were caught, far from it. But at some point it becomes impossible to track / enforce / uncover.
ModeratorGodfather
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 17 2009 08:05 GMT
#527
ya, freewinning is impossible to detect if the players arent retarded about it
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
TreK
Profile Joined August 2004
Sweden2089 Posts
December 17 2009 08:14 GMT
#528
freewin isnt cheating really, what rule would it be how hard you have to try to win? Imagine how hard it is to validate every game ever played on iccup
Bergkamp ftw!
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 17 2009 08:19 GMT
#529
obviously it is cheating, just because its not something that can really be enforced doesnt mean its ok.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
December 17 2009 09:29 GMT
#530
trek if you don't mind we are going to go ahead and ignore YOUR voice when it comes to abuse/hacking etc.

^_^

Doesn't really shock me you have less of a problem with freewinning than everyone else.
GoAudio
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Sweden400 Posts
December 17 2009 09:46 GMT
#531
ReasoN, bad choice
EffOrt[fOu] & Hyvaa[S.G] <3 :D
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
December 17 2009 09:49 GMT
#532
hahahah Trek.
NiGoL
Profile Joined September 2008
1868 Posts
December 17 2009 09:51 GMT
#533
ya ReasoN, wtf? ;/
http://www.twitter.com/NiGoLBW playing league on a competitive level
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-17 12:55:43
December 17 2009 12:55 GMT
#534
On December 17 2009 18:29 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
trek if you don't mind we are going to go ahead and ignore YOUR voice when it comes to abuse/hacking etc.

^_^

Doesn't really shock me you have less of a problem with freewinning than everyone else.


So why are you even opening your mouth when we are talking about high level & skilled play ?

+ Show Spoiler +
just kidding man.. dont be so mean >_<


Trek isnt right. Cheating is cheating no matter what.

But then again there are things u just cant punish because u dont even recognize them or cant proof em
hatred outlives the hateful
purgerinho
Profile Joined June 2008
Croatia919 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-17 13:39:51
December 17 2009 13:38 GMT
#535
hmm, freewin isn't cheating to me either... look how many freewins there are in real sport.. when some team have no need to win then that team makes some moves just to try something new without any risk.. it's like that in starcraft.. it would be cheating if from the start some player gives freewin to some other.. but in the end of ladder when to one player win or loss made no difference..

no cheating

edit: ofcourse, we can debate about word freewin coz someone will say dreiven got freewin and dreiven (and me) would say that was not a freewin
SUMMARIZED (by DeMu): You CANNOT surprise a top level Protoss with a build
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
December 17 2009 13:51 GMT
#536
you can't just compare the two that's seriously incredibly short sighted, how many alternate accounts do football teams have in the world championship
Administrator
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
December 17 2009 14:58 GMT
#537
it is cheating but its so sublime and u can never be sure anyways so its useless arguing about it..
who can decide if a game was lost on purpose or not..


and that comparison is kinda off in deed..

no one said Dreiven got free wins just that the games under the cirumstances they were played are suspicous, if they were proven free wins he would probably not got them removed and thus the points but more likely been kicked ..

whatever I find it ridicolous that some people want other people to shut up on certain matters just because they have been a culprit at one time, too..
hatred outlives the hateful
Trias
Profile Joined November 2007
Netherlands53 Posts
December 17 2009 16:34 GMT
#538
On December 17 2009 22:38 purgerinho wrote:
hmm, freewin isn't cheating to me either... look how many freewins there are in real sport.. when some team have no need to win then that team makes some moves just to try something new without any risk.. it's like that in starcraft.. it would be cheating if from the start some player gives freewin to some other.. but in the end of ladder when to one player win or loss made no difference..

no cheating

edit: ofcourse, we can debate about word freewin coz someone will say dreiven got freewin and dreiven (and me) would say that was not a freewin


Purposefully throwing a game, is also not allowed in football. It is just hard to prove, and thus rarely acted against.
TreK
Profile Joined August 2004
Sweden2089 Posts
December 17 2009 20:53 GMT
#539
I just dont think the line between judging if someone plays 100% or if its a freewin is judgeable, altho you can go with opinions, but it will never be fact.. i didnt exactly mean it wasnt cheating tho, it kind of came out wrong.

So incontrol must be awesome up on your high horse ofc
Bergkamp ftw!
TreK
Profile Joined August 2004
Sweden2089 Posts
December 17 2009 20:56 GMT
#540
On December 17 2009 18:49 Kennigit wrote:
hahahah Trek.


be nice
Bergkamp ftw!
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 27m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft521
Lowko225
NeuroSwarm 109
SortOf 88
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 34498
GuemChi 3149
actioN 635
PianO 495
Mong 482
Leta 185
ToSsGirL 70
NaDa 58
Dewaltoss 44
Backho 15
[ Show more ]
Jaeyun 15
Stork 5
League of Legends
JimRising 635
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1035
m0e_tv512
Other Games
summit1g9855
C9.Mang0312
Happy216
Livibee69
Mew2King41
ceh99
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick704
Counter-Strike
PGL243
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta32
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1754
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 27m
Wardi Open
4h 27m
Monday Night Weeklies
9h 27m
Replay Cast
16h 27m
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Ultimate Battle
4 days
Light vs ZerO
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS5
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.