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On March 27 2013 03:41 ObviousOne wrote:
Acro, I think your case on Nisani has some merit, though it may have roots in his relative inactivity up to this point. Do you have a second scum read? We seem to agree on Rayn looking town for now so I will ask for your opinion on Oatsmaster.
Is Oats town or scum to you?
This still holds:
On March 26 2013 23:27 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 23:14 marvellosity wrote:
If you're lynching Oats based on contradictions, you'll lynch him in every single game you play with him. While this is true, I have not yet seen the town Oats come out to play. His questions feel more timid than usual, and the only post that really gets up in anybody's face is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18133140I don't know that scum Oats would poke Palmar like that. Other than that it all feels rather safe, rather than Oats' usual reckless spammy style.
I would have to take a closer look at LIX to see whether a blatant 180 like he took on his SnB read is something he might do as scum. However, first I'm going to look at your town meta. I don't really see what Marv does in your scum meta that is so very different from your play this game. But I admit I only know you from NMM37, which is not very representative at all for any kind of meta.
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Sorry I meant that it was his interpretation of the events, instead of like backing down or whatever
Read that paragraph, does it read of town or scum? Ignore the name./
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On March 27 2013 03:50 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 03:41 ObviousOne wrote:
Acro, I think your case on Nisani has some merit, though it may have roots in his relative inactivity up to this point. Do you have a second scum read? We seem to agree on Rayn looking town for now so I will ask for your opinion on Oatsmaster.
Is Oats town or scum to you? This still holds: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 23:27 Acrofales wrote:On March 26 2013 23:14 marvellosity wrote:
If you're lynching Oats based on contradictions, you'll lynch him in every single game you play with him. While this is true, I have not yet seen the town Oats come out to play. His questions feel more timid than usual, and the only post that really gets up in anybody's face is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18133140I don't know that scum Oats would poke Palmar like that. Other than that it all feels rather safe, rather than Oats' usual reckless spammy style. I would have to take a closer look at LIX to see whether a blatant 180 like he took on his SnB read is something he might do as scum. However, first I'm going to look at your town meta. I don't really see what Marv does in your scum meta that is so very different from your play this game. But I admit I only know you from NMM37, which is not very representative at all for any kind of meta.
I dont know how I can defend myself from being more passive than normal.
Its just how the game played out.
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On March 27 2013 03:26 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:38 Acrofales wrote:
Some updates.
I like Smurf's more recent participation. Pressure on Cora feels good. Still don't like his stance on DI, and it depends on how good a player Smurf is, whether this is something that can be excused, or is an obvious scumtell. I want to know who he is. It's yamato.
I had that suspicion, but thought he could be promethelax as well. How sure are you? Because I can see Yamato making a bad half-arsed meta case, but Prom is far more meticulous and should be insta-lynched if he makes a case like that.
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Andddd, prplhz with the ninjavote.
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On March 27 2013 03:54 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 03:26 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 27 2013 02:38 Acrofales wrote:
Some updates.
I like Smurf's more recent participation. Pressure on Cora feels good. Still don't like his stance on DI, and it depends on how good a player Smurf is, whether this is something that can be excused, or is an obvious scumtell. I want to know who he is. It's yamato. I had that suspicion, but thought he could be promethelax as well. How sure are you? Because I can see Yamato making a bad half-arsed meta case, but Prom is far more meticulous and should be insta-lynched if he makes a case like that.
Almost 100% certain its not prome
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On March 27 2013 03:50 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 03:41 ObviousOne wrote:
Acro, I think your case on Nisani has some merit, though it may have roots in his relative inactivity up to this point. Do you have a second scum read? We seem to agree on Rayn looking town for now so I will ask for your opinion on Oatsmaster.
Is Oats town or scum to you? This still holds: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 23:27 Acrofales wrote:On March 26 2013 23:14 marvellosity wrote:
If you're lynching Oats based on contradictions, you'll lynch him in every single game you play with him. While this is true, I have not yet seen the town Oats come out to play. His questions feel more timid than usual, and the only post that really gets up in anybody's face is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18133140I don't know that scum Oats would poke Palmar like that. Other than that it all feels rather safe, rather than Oats' usual reckless spammy style. I would have to take a closer look at LIX to see whether a blatant 180 like he took on his SnB read is something he might do as scum. However, first I'm going to look at your town meta. I don't really see what Marv does in your scum meta that is so very different from your play this game. But I admit I only know you from NMM37, which is not very representative at all for any kind of meta.
I signed all my posts in Hydra if you're interested in my one and only scum game so far, but D1 in that game I basically posted less than a handful of times and lurked behind VE's interactions with the thread, and on D2 attacked one of the towniest players in the game who wasn't Marv trying to save my hide. After not being able to shake suspicion (and a lack of backup from VE as noted) I simply stopped posting to try to save my team from having to respond to new material I added to the thread.
Here in this game, I am under some suspicion for shennanies on D1 but here I am presenting cases, giving my reads, and I'm still participating in the thread. I am used to being a player of interest D1 but that's not going to stop me from looking into people because I have nothing to hide and nobody's future interests to look out for except the town's.
Take this for what you will, this is how I understand my meta and you may argue that in knowing general characteristics of my meta I can seek to avoid matching it (granted, one scum game does not really make a meta especially given it was a hydra game) but really I couldn't give less of a shit if you think I'm scummy as long as you agree that my reads have merit. Other players in all the games I was town have a tendency to ignore what I say unless it's obviously scummy (something I've been trying to improve in my town play, hopefully this game will be a testament to that) and if you think my cases are wrong please point out which facets and why those are incorrect or bad.
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On March 27 2013 01:59 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:57 strongandbig wrote:On March 27 2013 01:36 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 01:31 strongandbig wrote:
There needs to be more pressure on dandel ion.
Keeping the thread clear, readable, and coherent (AKA "not spamming") has been a major topic of discussion. It has reverberated in offhand comments, in the way players have said they are interacting with the game, and explicitly in pressure put on various players.
The only player to completely ignore this and keep to his "spammy meta" has been dandel. At this point, for him not to notice the difference between how he is interacting with the thread and how everyone else is would have to take a conscious effort.
The scum motivation for this is obvious. Long, unreadable, spammy threads hurt the town.
Dandel is choosing to play in a way that hurts town and helps scum. That's not okay. What 'pressure' do you propose exactly? He's either mafia or he is not mafia. Whether you approve of his play or not, do you think he's mafia? If so, why? If not, what are you trying to achieve here? Right now, I'm null on his alignment. I want him to change the way he's posting. The longer he continues without changing it, the more likely that he's doing it because he's scum trying to mess up our thread. So the 'pressure' is less of a "I SAY YOU ARE MAFIA NOW REACT/DANCE FOR ME" and more of a "you are doing this thing that has a clear scum motivation and no town motivation, stop doing it or I will be forced to conclude you're doing it because of the scum motivation rather than without thinking about it." "Your town meta is scummy and I will want to lynch you if you continue playing like you normally do as town" ok s&b.
What's wrong with this logic?
Spam is bad for town.
Everyone else is making an effort to interact meaningfully with the thread rather than spam.
Why can't we ask him to change his methodology and play in a way that is better for town?
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I don't have time to write some long case but I think ObviousOne has a decent chance of flipping scum.
On March 26 2013 14:08 ObviousOne wrote:==Some thoughts on today's action== + Show Spoiler +On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:34 Keirathi wrote:On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? Because it doesn't matter a single bit how he reacts because the case was built on false information. Hell, if I was scum, I would love nothing more than for someone to make a case on me that I could so easily refute just by posting a few quotes from my previous games that wouldn't even be hard to find. The point of making "cases" isn't to convince the person they are scum. They are to convince everyone else that someone is scum. Plus, S&B was asking for opinions about his case. The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right. Broken out, preserving the interaction above: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? I thought about this sentence for a while. I probably thought about it for too long. It might even be nothing. I thought about what a Rayn might be implying here, assuming town: If we emphasize the "don't" and following parenthesis, the implication here is that Rayn is calling out Kei for shutting down a potentially useful avenue of information. Okay, I get that. I thought about what Rayn might be implying here, assuming mafia: If we emphasize the "given that you" portion, we get a scum claim.
I don't know Rayn, and I can't reference the only other recent game since it's ongoing, so I want to say it's believe from a town mindset as an accusation against Kei derailing SNB's poorly constructed case. The alternative is a tired mind, ready for sleep, just posting for the sake of posting and literally claiming scum in the thread. So this interaction took me to Keirathi's filter where I found myself in a land of opinion-less posts and pseudo-random votes. This is not the town voice of Keirathi I remember from the Hydra game we played in together. It reminds me more of the safer and more timid Keirathi of 6 months ago, which was a safe way to play... the only town points in his favor IMO are that he derailed SNB's case for the right reason. (An addendum for later--) It's demonstrably fact that Keirathi has essentially defended prplhz by attacking SNB's case which says nothing now about them individually but should be remembered in the late stages of the game if it's still pertinent. Right now based on signal-to-noise ratio of Keirathi's filter, I'm calling him scum. What do you guys think?
The first part of this post is completely useless. You seem to be trying to scream to the thread that you are really thinking about who is scum by repeatedly saying "I thought about this sentence for a while... too long in fact. I just kept thinking about it!" when it concluded absolutely nothing and Rayne's post wasn't even worth looking at in the first place. His accusation of Keirathi seems rather weak to me as well.
On March 26 2013 15:39 ObviousOne wrote:Grack reads like he's ready to become an echo of thread sentiment. By admission this is a return to the game and he may be a bit rusty for that. I liked: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 11:17 Grackaroni wrote:
For the record Hapa: When I say that I don't like Sinani using the fact that OO didn't read his role PM to say that he is scum.
I mean that Sinani is using scummy logic. (he is misconstruing something that should not be alignment indicative and using it against OO to say that he is scum.)
This is my first game in a long time and I am having some trouble finding where I need to focus. But I am giving reads and I will continue to do so.
Lack of forthcoming reads about people he's asking questions about is kind of weird, him espousing as much is highlighted here: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 12:56 Grackaroni wrote:On March 26 2013 12:49 strongandbig wrote:On March 26 2013 12:45 Grackaroni wrote:
I don't like the case on Dandel Ion. He seems to troll regardless of alignment so there's nothing in there that points to him being scum this game as opposed to just anti-town.
@ISH Why didn't you bother to look up a town game of Dandel Ion? u scum bro? No..... I know what you dislike. I didn't say anything about what I think of Dandel Ion or ISH in that post. But I wasn't intending to because I haven't drawn any conclusions on them from it. All i am saying is that I dislike the case and for good reason. Calling out sinani for tunneling on my meaningless hello post: null
We can find out a lot more about him when there are some concrete bits mid-day besides his interactions with sinani. Looking at it again, there's a kind of nugget in the middle there with the interaction between him and Palmar. (BTW I've never played with a D1-talkative Palmar before, this is kind of surreal.) He flat out gave Palmar a town read instead of proposing a better lynch target. Okay, that's weird.Scum points and town points, I want to see more. More red than green. Are you picking up what I'm putting down?
But the main reason he could be scum is because as much as he pretends to think so much about my alignment. ( and says that it's not true that he just filtered after seeing Palmar attack me). He didn't read the thread as the events went on nor did he even bother to filter Palmar to question his alignment. (if he did he would see why I commented on Palmar instead of giving a lynch target) Palmar asked me to comment on him so I did, there's nothing "wierd" about it. I think for a player who "spends so much time thinking about one sentence from rayne" he would read the thread or at the very least filter Palmar to try to figure out his alignment. I think he saw Palmar's case and decided hmm.... This looks like a good person to throw some suspicion on.
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@S&B Why couldn't I comment on Prplhz? All Prplhz did was make 3 introduction posts which weren't alignment indicative and then you made a case on him. I figured you were just trying to start the game (null) and as previously mentioned I didn't mind prplhz's posts so I didn't see anything worth saying about that.
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On March 27 2013 04:14 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:59 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 01:57 strongandbig wrote:On March 27 2013 01:36 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 01:31 strongandbig wrote:
There needs to be more pressure on dandel ion.
Keeping the thread clear, readable, and coherent (AKA "not spamming") has been a major topic of discussion. It has reverberated in offhand comments, in the way players have said they are interacting with the game, and explicitly in pressure put on various players.
The only player to completely ignore this and keep to his "spammy meta" has been dandel. At this point, for him not to notice the difference between how he is interacting with the thread and how everyone else is would have to take a conscious effort.
The scum motivation for this is obvious. Long, unreadable, spammy threads hurt the town.
Dandel is choosing to play in a way that hurts town and helps scum. That's not okay. What 'pressure' do you propose exactly? He's either mafia or he is not mafia. Whether you approve of his play or not, do you think he's mafia? If so, why? If not, what are you trying to achieve here? Right now, I'm null on his alignment. I want him to change the way he's posting. The longer he continues without changing it, the more likely that he's doing it because he's scum trying to mess up our thread. So the 'pressure' is less of a "I SAY YOU ARE MAFIA NOW REACT/DANCE FOR ME" and more of a "you are doing this thing that has a clear scum motivation and no town motivation, stop doing it or I will be forced to conclude you're doing it because of the scum motivation rather than without thinking about it." "Your town meta is scummy and I will want to lynch you if you continue playing like you normally do as town" ok s&b. What's wrong with this logic? Spam is bad for town. Everyone else is making an effort to interact meaningfully with the thread rather than spam. Why can't we ask him to change his methodology and play in a way that is better for town?
Why can't you look for actual scum instead? That'd be real good for town.
For all your big and "protown" words, you are not doing "better" in any way.
I wish people would stop being such hypocrites.
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Who else is scum besides me, Grack? Am I the only scum in this game?
I'm happy to be wrong about you if you would just do something more useful than tunnel me all day. You're just staying the course though and it bothers me.
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On March 27 2013 04:24 ObviousOne wrote:
Who else is scum besides me, Grack? Am I the only scum in this game?
I'm happy to be wrong about you if you would just do something more useful than tunnel me all day. You're just staying the course though and it bothers me.
lol how many people have given multiple scum reads so far. I find it ridiculous that I'm still some major suspect because I made 3 posts without stances at the start of the game.
I think Nisani and Sinani are both people to look into and both could be scum as well. Nisani wrote a case about acro and seemed to ignore all of the other things that Acro has done in the thread and just said he's too focused on you not reading your role pm.
Once again I don't like Sinani's original contribution and he hasn't added anything since then.
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Good morning everyone.
The case on Grack is really weak, and if it were made by someone other than Palmar it probably wouldn't be getting nearly as far as it is now.
Just because Smurf made a bad case doesn't mean he's scum. He looks town now and there shouldn't be any suspicion on him.
Acrofales is making a bit more sense but his case on me is just a bunch of OMGUS. Acro, who is your secondary suspect?
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Holy crow guys. He's suspicious of lurkers. Lmao.
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OO: What makes Grack more scummy than Cora?
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On March 27 2013 03:53 prplhz wrote:
##Vote Grackaroni
Really?
Generally I wouldn't bring suspicion back this far, but if you have a three post filter at the beginning of day 1 and then ninja-vote halfway through the day, that's pretty suspicious. You could be in the middle of writing some really long analysis, but it's already been 40 minutes, so that's doubtful. What's up, man?
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oh sinani is here too.
Who do you think is scum?
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Are nisani and sinani actually the same person, or buttbuddies or something like that?
that's vitally important for me to know and not a joke.
+ Show Spoiler +I should start adding that last line to all my posts, mb it'd help.
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On March 27 2013 04:28 Nisani201 wrote:
Good morning everyone.
The case on Grack is really weak, and if it were made by someone other than Palmar it probably wouldn't be getting nearly as far as it is now.
Just because Smurf made a bad case doesn't mean he's scum. He looks town now and there shouldn't be any suspicion on him.
Acrofales is making a bit more sense but his case on me is just a bunch of OMGUS. Acro, who is your secondary suspect?
How can you say such a huge blanket statement. It's day 1, what evidence do you have that Smurf is for sure town?
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EPT
