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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On June 20 2012 21:14 Aquila- wrote: Get Avilo on the show already, or at least another competent Terran... This statement makes no sense. Which do you want? A competent Terran, or Avilo? | ||
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Domus
510 Posts
Terrans are very clearly having a problem in tournaments, and the statistics support this. I also feel like terran is becoming less and less popular in the foreign scene. I think this is a bad thing, this is a 3-race game, and the 3-race dynamic is interesting. I really want to continue seeing good terrans at tournaments, but I don't really see upcoming terran pros. Also, Artosis mentioning MVP winning GSL...well think about it! Patch was 5/10/12...GSL S2 started 3/10/12 and ended 19/10/12...Zerg was pretty much eliminated before the patch hit, and there was no real time to develop builds...Simply said, the MVP win was pretty much pre-patch. That all said, I feel that zerg is currently in a good place. I can really see a lot of play style variety when watching Stephano, Dimaga, or DRG play. I don't think zerg should get nerfs. The queen should stay as-is. Blizzard needs to look at the Terran units and start buffing certain units to encourage using them again, like the ghost, reaper, and raven. | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On June 20 2012 21:32 Dosey wrote: This statement makes no sense. Which do you want? A competent Terran, or Avilo? well, they have on average 2 really bad (for pro players) protoss on the show, Avilo would fit right it | ||
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UnholyRai
720 Posts
On June 20 2012 21:46 Quotidian wrote: well, they have on average 2 really bad (for pro players) protoss on the show, Avilo would fit right it Are you referencing Nony as really bad? He was basically the best foreigner protoss in broodwar and while he doesn't practice nowadays his game knowledge and talent is unquestioned. Incontrol is a similar story, but to a lesser extent. | ||
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Domus
510 Posts
On June 20 2012 21:46 Quotidian wrote: well, they have on average 2 really bad (for pro players) protoss on the show, Avilo would fit right it If you hate the people on the show so much, just don't watch it instead of insulting the hosts? | ||
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CursedRich
United Kingdom737 Posts
On June 20 2012 21:50 UnholyRai wrote: Are you referencing Nony as really bad? He was basically the best foreigner protoss in broodwar and while he doesn't practice nowadays his game knowledge and talent is unquestioned. Incontrol is a similar story, but to a lesser extent. Sorry but to state that their talent is unquestioned is taking it a bit far, but game knowledge, when focusing on their own races is definitely very high level | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On June 20 2012 21:50 UnholyRai wrote: Are you referencing Nony as really bad? He was basically the best foreigner protoss in broodwar and while he doesn't practice nowadays his game knowledge and talent is unquestioned. Incontrol is a similar story, but to a lesser extent. For BW. Not the best but he was damn good and definitely had the talent to break the estro line-up. If it weren't for the friends/family and fact he was planning on getting married. The guy would have made it before Greg could crack the CJ line-up. I'm going to shake my head to the rest though. Geoff still cannot read the game well at all if you watched his casting during DH. He focuses a lot of attention on one thing thus he gets sidetracked and misses stuff. It's pretty common, but in order to be exceptional you have to keep tabs on all things. The real surprise is Apollo. Over the last two months I've noticed a very big difference when it comes to his casting approach. Guy deserves a pat on the back. Is Apollo a good pro? I wouldn't even call him a pro, but he's been practicing the game like nuts after 2GD said, "Hey man, if you're going to cast this shit you better play the game more." As a result, he's much better now and it comes through when he casts. No one says you have to be an expert or a really phenomenal player to discuss or talk about the said game. It certainly helps being a student of it though. | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On June 20 2012 21:50 UnholyRai wrote: Are you referencing Nony as really bad? He was basically the best foreigner protoss in broodwar and while he doesn't practice nowadays his game knowledge and talent is unquestioned. Incontrol is a similar story, but to a lesser extent. TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS @Anaheim was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insur or RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification. On June 20 2012 21:54 Domus wrote: If you hate the people on the show so much, just don't watch it instead of insulting the hosts? I don't hate anybody. I just think they're are unreasonably full of themselves. It'd be cute if they were actually dominating the scene in terms of performance.. but, well.. they're really not anywhere close to doing that | ||
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Elsid
Ireland318 Posts
On June 20 2012 22:18 Quotidian wrote: TSL2 was a looooong time ago. His 12th place finish or whatever it was at WCS @Anaheim was basically the best result he has had in SC2 in about 2 years. Just watch his stream - he's basically struggling in mid-masters at this point. His opinion isn't any more valid than Avilo's. Incontrol? He's basically completely fallen off the radar as a pro at this point and I don't think he has even qualified for WCS - why is his opinion viewed as more important than Avilo's? It's because he's a co-host on SOTG and nothing else. If the qualification for being on the show was being "competent" Nony and Incontrol should've been rotated out in favor of people like Insure and RangeD. Obviously, competency isn't a qualification. I don't hate anybody. I just think they're are unreasonably full of themselves. It'd be cute if they were actually dominating the scene in terms of performance.. but, well.. they're really not anywhere close to doing that He did qualify for WCS and that was while he was moving house so he had no practice. Also he's not really struggling with mid-masters. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
Thank god very few people in Europe watch it. | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
Get a clue, guys, this matchup is broken beyond repair at the moment and it won't get fixed without a patch. But hey, don't bring a terran in to talk about it, don't mention how almost every good terran has quit, or how Terran barely make it to top 16 of any given tournament. Instead just make some smug remark and laugh it off. This was the only SotG I saw live, and boy did I pick the worst possible one, lol. | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On June 20 2012 22:22 Elsid wrote: He did qualify for WCS and that was while he was moving house so he had no practice. Also he's not really struggling with mid-masters. I know Nony qualified and so did Avilo... but did Incontrol? And last time I watched Nony's stream, he was losing to mid master ranked no-name players, and he finished the season 28th in his league. That's mid-masters. Of course it really doesn't matter, but barring Avilo - who finished #1 in his league - from the show because he's not "competent" is obviously stupid. There are several reasons not to have Avilo on the show, but his skill is not one of them | ||
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Uracil
Germany422 Posts
On June 20 2012 22:38 Quotidian wrote: I know Nony qualified and so did Avilo... but did Incontrol? And last time I watched Nony's stream, he was losing to mid master ranked no-name players, and he finished the season 28th in his league. That's mid-masters. Of course it really doesn't matter, but barring Avilo - who finished #1 in his league - from the show because he's not "competent" is obviously stupid. There are several reasons not to have Avilo on the show, but his skill is not one of them Nony wasn't even on the show. So why are you discussing his recent performance. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On June 20 2012 22:38 Quotidian wrote: I know Nony qualified and so did Avilo... but did Incontrol? And last time I watched Nony's stream, he was losing to mid master ranked no-name players, and he finished the season 28th in his league. That's mid-masters. Of course it really doesn't matter, but barring Avilo - who finished #1 in his league - from the show because he's not "competent" is obviously stupid. There are several reasons not to have Avilo on the show, but his skill is not one of them you mean the season where he barely played cause he moved halfway across the country and had like a 600 point bonus pool? come on dude... seriously, go back a few pages and watch the video of avilo and his rant. then let me know if you actually want to listen to him talk anything about balance. | ||
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blobrus
4297 Posts
On June 20 2012 22:32 Starshaped wrote: I laughed when they shrugged off how broken TvZ is and even had the nerve to say it would balance out "in two weeks". Get a clue, guys, this matchup is broken beyond repair at the moment and it won't get fixed without a patch. But hey, don't bring a terran in to talk about it, don't mention how almost every good terran has quit, or how Terran barely make it to top 16 of any given tournament. Instead just make some smug remark and laugh it off. This was the only SotG I saw live, and boy did I pick the worst possible one, lol. Oh no, terran is in trouble (for the first time in the history of the game). | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On June 20 2012 22:46 Uracil wrote: Nony wasn't even on the show. So why are you discussing his recent performance. because I was originally replying this post, which uses Avilo's supposed lack of "competency" as a reason why he shouldn't be on the show On June 20 2012 22:49 jmbthirteen wrote: you mean the season where he barely played cause he moved halfway across the country and had like a 600 point bonus pool? come on dude... seriously, go back a few pages and watch the video of avilo and his rant. then let me know if you actually want to listen to him talk anything about balance. I've been watching his stream in the months before he moved as well - same general performance. The move had nothing to do with it. I'm not saying I want Avilo on the show, I'm just saying he's as a pro player actually of the same quality as Nony or Incontrol and probably better than Artosis. And that video was obviously something of a joke, with it mimicking WW2 American propaganda films and so on. The video he made where he discussed lategame tvp BC usage was relatively well articulated and reasonable. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On June 20 2012 14:46 avilo wrote: Btw, I never dodged your challenge. I also do believe I am a better player than you, as well as more qualified to talk about balance than you are. My WCS result over you already proves who is better, and I am willing to prove it again. I challenge you to a bo5, my conditions are that I play as Protoss and you play as Terran for the entire series. We each put up $50.00, and we both must stream the entire bo5. MLG 2012 map pool from most recent MLG. haha way to chicken out | ||
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one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
On June 20 2012 20:20 iNcontroL wrote: avilo you rancid fuck lol. My terran is horrible. If you are going to dodge just say so and stop being a dumb ass about it. But if you are really scared of my protoss I will accept the challenge and play you with my zerg.. you can go terran if you like  As a fan of you both I have to say this is getting stupid. You are making a huge deal of what was just a small detail in his argument. I think that both of you know that getting slightly further in a tournament doesn't decide who the better player is. Initially avilo just used that as a quick argument to prove that he is at least in the same ballpark as you when it comes to skill. He even said on his stream that it really doesn't mean shit, but at the very least it means that you can't dismiss him based on some kind of skill argument. Even if you didn't intend it your call out to him to "man up" and play a bo7 vs you distracts things from the main issue. If you play him and win, or if he wins , does it prove that either of you is better? From avilos perspective it would be a loss to give in and just accept a showmatch because he would then accept that the important point in all this is to decide who the better player is. It is not, and I think both of you know that. With that said I have to admit that avilo comes off in a way that doesn't really benefit him. He could handle this way smoother. Offering to give a terran point of view to your discussion was a good thing to do. He got no as an answer and should have stayed there. But you asked ... and he offered his services only to be denied for some reason. From his point of view I think he'd be happy to participate because then he would get a chance to rid the negative image parts of the community has about him. If he had stayed there and just accepted the no he would have proven another point of his, that he is not seen as legitimate by core representatives of the community. You are just going around in a circle barking at each other. Avilo knows that your terran is bad while his protoss is almost GM level, so it is a bit silly to demand an off-race bo7. Still, I think that it was a clever thing to do in this situation as the whole idea of a show match was silly in the first place. None of you is better than the other. InControl suggests a show match knowing that avilo will dodge. Then avilo demands the show match to be played switch-race knowing that InControl will dodge. To people who are less engaged in E-sports it has to look pretty silly that you can't even have a show about a videogame without bias about one of the races in the game. It is just a videogame , lol. Shows about more established sports are very careful to always show all aspects of an issue and let all the different sides speak, even the more casual ones. The need for this has spawned a whole branch of journalism. For E-sports to grow and be successful we can't have arguments over these trivial things. Act professional about it if you are gonna have a balance discussion and let all sides speak. If that somehow goes against the idea of the show you should carefully avoid all balance talk. With the risk of coming off as a total fan boy I have to say that all the people in this thread making jokes about avilos SC2 skill needs to do some fucking research. The guy played mech in TvT before it became poplular in the GSL. Avilo made a guide about Raven usage in TvZ. It is apparent that many korean terrans have been inspired by his style. Months before MVPs BC play in the final vs Squirtle avilo made a video about the future of TvP where he showed how to play that style. He is just not some terran that got successful doing early rushes and abusing stupid timings. His goal has been to play long macro games in all matchups. Since that seems is a bit hard to do with the terran race he has experienced massive frustration. But among all the terran players I know he is the most credible one in a discussion about late game terran play. | ||
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RedBack
Australia102 Posts
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Scheme
United Kingdom210 Posts
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