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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin |
On November 20 2012 12:59 EatThePath wrote:
Ah I see... hmm I guess that's the only option for HotS, good point. I would include some kind of visual indicator that the ground there is different to try and communicate that it's not a buildable or viable spot for warpins. Not sure how to do this besides maybe a glowing outline and a rough texture?
Probable with textures. Or I could spell something out with the decals. I think's that's possible. I did Lambda. How hard could it be to spell "YOU CAN'T FUCKING 4 GATE THIS DON'T FUCKING TRY". =D
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Just put a stylized pictogram of 4 gateways inside of a red circle with diagonal crosspiece. ^^
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On November 20 2012 13:14 EatThePath wrote:
Just put a stylized pictogram of 4 gateways inside of a red circle with diagonal crosspiece. ^^
ROFL HA! <3 I'm doing that now.
I wonder however how i'm going to aproach the textures. Should I go for the darker look of blast bit or the fusion of the lambda labs (white tile, brighter, etc) + green radio cool water. Black Mesa (revamp of half life 1 with modern source engine) is where I got the ideas from. Have you played it? If not look at the screens. Sooooo zezzzzzy.
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Yes. Black Mesa is soooo awesome. ;D
If you're feeling ambitious, you could use darker / industrial textures around the map and then use some laboratory / office aesthetics in the high ground areas of the bases. It would be really cool to have a bludgeon worm guy guarding the watchtower pit. XD
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On November 20 2012 13:29 EatThePath wrote:
Yes. Black Mesa is soooo awesome. ;D
If you're feeling ambitious, you could use darker / industrial textures around the map and then use some laboratory / office aesthetics in the high ground areas of the bases. It would be really cool to have a bludgeon worm guy guarding the watchtower pit. XD
I could just default to a flying shark so when this map is in GSL, Artosis will flip his biscuits. =D
Rough anti 4gate decal:
+ Show Spoiler +
I could split the art of the map into 4 parts like I did outside the nat and 3rd. That being said I still need custom textures and that means I need to figure that shit out. =(
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On November 20 2012 13:38 Drake Merrwin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 13:29 EatThePath wrote:
Yes. Black Mesa is soooo awesome. ;D
If you're feeling ambitious, you could use darker / industrial textures around the map and then use some laboratory / office aesthetics in the high ground areas of the bases. It would be really cool to have a bludgeon worm guy guarding the watchtower pit. XD I could just default to a flying shark so when this map is in GSL, Artosis will flip his biscuits. =D Rough anti 4gate decal: + Show Spoiler +I could split the art of the map into 4 parts like I did outside the nat and 3rd. That being said I still need custom textures and that means I need to figure that shit out. =(
hahahaha that is awesome!
there's a thread somewhere about custom textures, or maybe it's a youtube video... ><
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Current WIP, a 4-p rotational. I am not against removing the backdoors to further this maps cause! 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fxKGD.jpg)
Edit: if anyone cant see the backdoor, this is how it looks right now. Though I will likely remove it soon.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MrzhI.jpg)
Double Edit:
The line of sight blockers on the attackers side is to force the attacker into melee range to attack the rocks, which makes them vulnerable to the defender's ranged units.
The line of sight blockers on the defenders side prevents warp-ins and blink play unless the attacker has vision on the other side via observer, hallucinated phoenix, or other units on other side.
The high ground gives the defender some advantage in defending it and allows vision past line of sight blockers.
Will it work, though?
Thx for feedback!
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@eTcetRa
It will only work if you make the natural entrance accessible to FFE. Because it's not. Other than that it's fucking sick. Really good.
Aesthetics could use some work. I would like to see more of the orange contrast among the playable part of the map. Not like every other map where the best aesthetics are not ever seen because no units even go there. =D
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You can FFE at the nexus just fine at that map. Apart from that, backdoor rocks like that serve a nice purpose since they allow you to secure a third more easily in some cases so I really like them.
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Pretty cool, I like the concept / some neat ideas going on there. The proportions seem solid too.
It's a first impression so I could be missing something, but it seems like a really really good map. 4th+5th bases are actually takeable, which can be a problem on some 4p maps. I would say some positions might be slightly imbalanced (for instance, if you had 2 players spawning on the bottom positions, I'm pretty sure the bottom left guy gets the better shake) but nothing super glaring.
Good use of the shakura's set, although I guess it's too much to ask for people to stop using protoss decals so much :-P
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On November 21 2012 08:37 Fatam wrote:
Good use of the shakura's set, although I guess it's too much to ask for people to stop using protoss decals so much :-P
Protoss decals are addicting! But on a serious note
I am going to tone down the color of the decals because they stand out so much. Will put some shakuras archways around for aesthetics.
As far as the main and natural are concerned I think I'll proceed in one or two ways:
- main Backdoor removed and natural left open.
Or
- main Backdoor kept and natural made more secure.
Will open up a couple ramps in the middle as they are ALL currently 2x ramps and is quite tight.
Thanks for feedback.
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I would prefer the main backdoor kept, as that feature pretty much defines the entire main/nat/third area, and to some degree the map itself. But it's your call, of course :-P
I think a main backdoor like that can be cool because it can be useful for the defender as well. He might want to break the rocks down if he is contained, or depending on spawn locations it could help shorten reinforcement time, or just to make it easier to defend the base that's on the other side.
The little lowground cubby beneath the main and behind the LOS blockers is also pretty interesting. Baneling morphs behind the grass, or maybe a pylon on the highground warping stuff in behind the LOS to create a surprise flank on an attack coming into the natural.
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New update:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J3X9G.jpg)
Changes are:
- Natural moved backward & choke added in front of it to make it easier to hold.
- Four towers removed and one central tower added. Much less free vision.
- Several ramps going up to the midfield have been increased to 3x ramps from 2x ramps. For lategame.
- Several aesthetic retouches.
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Well here's my map, 176x176 4p rotational symmetry and im not sure about it, i mean, the 3rd is relativelly easy to hold for P, even in close spawns, but the problem im facing is that i think that the map is too open, and i would like to know what you guys think about that, i could divide some ramps in the center and make a hole in the "front" of the fourth similar at the hole in whirlwind, so protoss/terran can defend it better, but im sure about that either.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
So what you guys think about it?
EDIT: Crap i posted the doodadless pictures, if you guys wish i can post some eye candy pics :D
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
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PLEASE!!! Feedback on this design. Not really done or satisfied with the asthetics, will proly change them. The theme is half toss and half terran. If you could give me feedback on the base layout, etc. The bounds are 147x142.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wbruJ.png)
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On November 22 2012 02:57 Uvantak wrote:
Well here's my map, 176x176 4p rotational symmetry and im not sure about it, i mean, the 3rd is relativelly easy to hold for P, even in close spawns, but the problem im facing is that i think that the map is too open, and i would like to know what you guys think about that, i could divide some ramps in the center and make a hole in the "front" of the fourth similar at the hole in whirlwind, so protoss/terran can defend it better, but im sure about that either.
O_O HUGE, MAN. That beats even Tal'Darim Altar's record of 172x172. I'd recommend shrinking down the map size, which will also help deal with your issue of being too open. If you really want the feel of a super big map, I'd go with 160x160 to match that of maps such as Terminus, Calm before the Storm, and Whirlwind. Basically anywhere from 148x148 (e.g. Crevasse) to 160x160 should be decent for a 16-base 4p rotational.
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On November 22 2012 03:09 lorestarcraft wrote:
PLEASE!!! Feedback on this design. Not really done or satisfied with the asthetics, will proly change them. The theme is half toss and half terran. If you could give me feedback on the base layout, etc. The bounds are 147x142.
What jumps out at me is the natural, the mineral line should be more standard. The area outside the natural I don't really like, it seems really good for terran and really bad for both toss and zerg for different reasons. I know other people will also say that the 3rd base is too hard.
I like the middle area with the opposing high grounds, but I feel that the main/nat/third doesn't do it justice with how that is setup. One thing you could do is extend the area outside the nat a bit more towards the 3rd base, so you can secure the 3rd more easily by controlling that highground area.
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On November 22 2012 04:37 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 02:57 Uvantak wrote:
Well here's my map, 176x176 4p rotational symmetry and im not sure about it, i mean, the 3rd is relativelly easy to hold for P, even in close spawns, but the problem im facing is that i think that the map is too open, and i would like to know what you guys think about that, i could divide some ramps in the center and make a hole in the "front" of the fourth similar at the hole in whirlwind, so protoss/terran can defend it better, but im sure about that either. O_O HUGE, MAN. That beats even Tal'Darim Altar's record of 172x172. I'd recommend shrinking down the map size, which will also help deal with your issue of being too open. If you really want the feel of a super big map, I'd go with 160x160 to match that of maps such as Terminus, Calm before the Storm, and Whirlwind. Basically anywhere from 148x148 (e.g. Crevasse) to 160x160 should be decent for a 16-base 4p rotational.
Indeed, i think i can reduce the map a bit, but yeah, a big part of the size is in air space, as you can see in the first pic, and without the extra air sapce the map gets a more normal size of ~158x158, yeah, now that you mention it i can get rid of a big part of all that air space, and try to reduce the center of the map a bit too. I think that will help quite a bit, but that still left us with the issue i see in the fourth, that's still too open
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On November 22 2012 06:25 TheFish7 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:09 lorestarcraft wrote:
PLEASE!!! Feedback on this design. Not really done or satisfied with the asthetics, will proly change them. The theme is half toss and half terran. If you could give me feedback on the base layout, etc. The bounds are 147x142.
What jumps out at me is the natural, the mineral line should be more standard. The area outside the natural I don't really like, it seems really good for terran and really bad for both toss and zerg for different reasons. I know other people will also say that the 3rd base is too hard. I like the middle area with the opposing high grounds, but I feel that the main/nat/third doesn't do it justice with how that is setup. One thing you could do is extend the area outside the nat a bit more towards the 3rd base, so you can secure the 3rd more easily by controlling that highground area.
I wanted to make it where depending on which third you took, the fourth opotion was different.
I do see your points though.
Also, you don't like the non-standard arrangement? It is the same as the more typical as far as efficiency.
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My WIP is an experiment in non-standard layout. I feel that an ideal map pool has much more variety in size and shape than what we currently see and I made this to explore some alternatives.
Images
+ Show Spoiler +
Korhal Pale Ivy
2 players 16 bases
12 8m2g + 2 non-standard 8m2g
2 6m1g
Aesthetics - 0
LoS blockers & any other essential details - 0
Main to Main Distance
Ground - About 200
Air - 112
It seems to be consensus that low-ground mains are impossible in SC2, particularly regarding PvP and offensive warp-ins generally. I can certainly see the problems, and I might not want this map in my ladder pool. I would love to see it in a tournament pool though, especially in a team league format, precisely because of its low ground mains and other unique strategic elements. I want to believe that the short air distance, the choke points on the 3rd, and the need to defend your watchtower and highground (but early reinforcements needing to go through the center) all combine to make this map interesting and to keep the low-ground main concerns from killing its spirit.
The map is public on NA - please playtest it and give me some feedback!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OpJlM.jpg)
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