EPTOn August 04 2012 08:23 Erandorr wrote:
Dear god I hope you are trolling
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On August 04 2012 08:16 Hier wrote:
I am so impressed, Erandorr, you are so elaborate. Nobody even remotely suspects you of being mafia.
You painted yourself to be a very big opponent of mason claims.
+ Show Spoiler [As seen here] +
But mafia either already knows who the masons are by receiving PMs, or sleep soundly at night knowing the masons are bickering among the townies in private, accusing each other of being scum behind each others' backs.
Along comes WBG and gives away VE, to which you replied:
WBG confirms his stance on revealing masons, and has already done so in practice with an attitude that would assure anyone that he would easily do it again.
+ Show Spoiler [Here] +
Within the same hour you mason WBG and get your role revealed. This warrants WBG's reveal of your role being anti-town; your role specifically, revealing VE was just "retarded", not necessarily anti-town. If you had filed your mason request before WBG revealed VE, he would have revealed both of you at the same time. BC was online at the time, as per his voting thread announcement, allowing for all of this to happen in rapid succession. You have abused WBG's rash decision making to your advantage, which I commend.
+ Show Spoiler [Time of BC's post] +
Erandorr's reasonings:
+ Show Spoiler [Here] +
+ Show Spoiler [And here] +
+ Show Spoiler [Finally here] +
Suddenly you become the victim of something you, apparently, could not forsee, making you look town. You try to convince people that WBG's move was anti-town, while the move against VE "may have been context", or was just "retarded", but not anti-town yet.
It doesn't even matter whether WBG is town or mafia! He could be scum, and you may have asked him to rat you out without you even being a mason. I don't know.
But you, Erandorr, I am very impressed with. That was clever. I will strive to be like you in the future.
I am so impressed, Erandorr, you are so elaborate. Nobody even remotely suspects you of being mafia.
You painted yourself to be a very big opponent of mason claims.
+ Show Spoiler [As seen here] +
On August 03 2012 12:26 Erandorr wrote:
YO talismania : wtf
So lets see. Townie masons are kind of bad because all you can do is privatly talk to someone to get information and a feeling of not some random player, but someone you want to talk to more?
Also explain the bolded part please. Why are you focused on how a town mason is looking trying to get information?
Are you serious? Can you really think of no reason how a scum mason could be useful?
Yeah those kind of speculations always work out and are totally valid and never before produced complete retard lynches!
Okay. So would I be correct in saying that you think the mason role is so shitty that having it claimed
wouldn't really help anyways, so why bother? If I misunderstood feel free to elaborate.
Why?
I can think of reasons not to claim that, actually. And just because you can do something doesn't really mean you should , right?
YO talismania : wtf
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Mason is kind of worthless for town and at face value is little different than a vanilla townie.
--A normal pair of masons have the benefit of knowing that one person is definitively town, and being able to claim that later. There is no such guarantee in this game. It's just like posting in the thread with someone except without anyone else seeing it, plus they're going to be extra suspicious of you. Of course you can glean a lot of information just by talking as well, which is a plus regardless.
--A normal pair of masons have the benefit of knowing that one person is definitively town, and being able to claim that later. There is no such guarantee in this game. It's just like posting in the thread with someone except without anyone else seeing it, plus they're going to be extra suspicious of you. Of course you can glean a lot of information just by talking as well, which is a plus regardless.
So lets see. Townie masons are kind of bad because all you can do is privatly talk to someone to get information and a feeling of not some random player, but someone you want to talk to more?
Also explain the bolded part please. Why are you focused on how a town mason is looking trying to get information?
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2) Mason is kind of a worthless role for scum.
--A scum mason is an annoying role to play. Do you pick townies, a scumbuddy, etc. What do you say to whom you buddy, each day? Seems fraught.
--A scum mason is an annoying role to play. Do you pick townies, a scumbuddy, etc. What do you say to whom you buddy, each day? Seems fraught.
Are you serious? Can you really think of no reason how a scum mason could be useful?
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3) One interesting point is that if there is a town mason, there's likely a scum mason. Given the setup description, I find it hard to believe in fact that this would not be the case. This makes the role doubly poisonous/useless for scum. As it stands now, there are 5 scum and 19 townies (25%). If all the masons claim, and scum claims with them, I'm betting it's closer to 50/50 ratio. Maybe 2 town, 2 scum. That's shit for scum, so they won't want to claim. Except that they might think if they don't claim those that do are going to get too much town cred and yadda yadda.
Yeah those kind of speculations always work out and are totally valid and never before produced complete retard lynches!
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4) So why not have them claim? Sounds fine to me but I don't think it's necessary either.
Okay. So would I be correct in saying that you think the mason role is so shitty that having it claimed
wouldn't really help anyways, so why bother? If I misunderstood feel free to elaborate.
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5) If you are masoned for the day - you MUST claim. There is no reason not to claim that. And save your logs and communications, because that shit needs to end up in the thread eventually.
Why?
I can think of reasons not to claim that, actually. And just because you can do something doesn't really mean you should , right?
But mafia either already knows who the masons are by receiving PMs, or sleep soundly at night knowing the masons are bickering among the townies in private, accusing each other of being scum behind each others' backs.
Along comes WBG and gives away VE, to which you replied:
On August 03 2012 20:54 Erandorr wrote:
any reason why you would out VE as mason this early? I mean thats kind of retarded.
any reason why you would out VE as mason this early? I mean thats kind of retarded.
WBG confirms his stance on revealing masons, and has already done so in practice with an attitude that would assure anyone that he would easily do it again.
+ Show Spoiler [Here] +
On August 03 2012 21:10 Erandorr wrote:
Sorry wbg, I am just too retarded to understand you.
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On August 03 2012 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
Pot calling the kettle black...
Let me break this down into simpler terms for you (and I thought that wasn't possible!)
1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless)
2. The playerbase of this game will not understand stuff unless it's obviously stated.
3. If we are both town then mafia will strongly consider shooting one of us. Which means that we will make good protects. Which means that it potentially forces mafia to shoot suboptimally.
Pot calling the kettle black...
Let me break this down into simpler terms for you (and I thought that wasn't possible!)
1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless)
2. The playerbase of this game will not understand stuff unless it's obviously stated.
3. If we are both town then mafia will strongly consider shooting one of us. Which means that we will make good protects. Which means that it potentially forces mafia to shoot suboptimally.
Sorry wbg, I am just too retarded to understand you.
Within the same hour you mason WBG and get your role revealed. This warrants WBG's reveal of your role being anti-town; your role specifically, revealing VE was just "retarded", not necessarily anti-town. If you had filed your mason request before WBG revealed VE, he would have revealed both of you at the same time. BC was online at the time, as per his voting thread announcement, allowing for all of this to happen in rapid succession. You have abused WBG's rash decision making to your advantage, which I commend.
+ Show Spoiler [Time of BC's post] +
On August 03 2012 21:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Please move all voting into the voting thread I just created Here
Thank you
Please move all voting into the voting thread I just created Here
Thank you
Erandorr's reasonings:
+ Show Spoiler [Here] +
On August 03 2012 23:53 Erandorr wrote:
I wanted to see if he did it again, considering I know my alignment. Its a completely anti town move . Give me one reason why not to hammer wbg right now please.
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On August 03 2012 23:51 strongandbig wrote:
errandorr I was kind of hoping you would address this without being prompted but...
On August 03 2012 21:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Erandorr just masoned me. Dunno if he's scum or just dumb though.
Also I didn't ask either of them before outting them.
Erandorr just masoned me. Dunno if he's scum or just dumb though.
Also I didn't ask either of them before outting them.
errandorr I was kind of hoping you would address this without being prompted but...
I wanted to see if he did it again, considering I know my alignment. Its a completely anti town move . Give me one reason why not to hammer wbg right now please.
+ Show Spoiler [And here] +
On August 04 2012 01:37 Erandorr wrote:
Its a completely anti town move to out people like that without thoughts on alignment or actually any information. They may have been context with VE, but I thought of it as trading my role for confirming wbg as scum. it is that easy.
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On August 04 2012 01:31 talismania wrote:
On August 04 2012 00:39 talismania wrote:
can you walk me through your thought process a little more? It seemed like you were against masons being in public given your agreement with toad. So why did you risk outing yourself?
On August 03 2012 23:53 Erandorr wrote:
I wanted to see if he did it again, considering I know my alignment. Its a completely anti town move . Give me one reason why not to hammer wbg right now please.
On August 03 2012 23:51 strongandbig wrote:
errandorr I was kind of hoping you would address this without being prompted but...
On August 03 2012 21:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Erandorr just masoned me. Dunno if he's scum or just dumb though.
Also I didn't ask either of them before outting them.
Erandorr just masoned me. Dunno if he's scum or just dumb though.
Also I didn't ask either of them before outting them.
errandorr I was kind of hoping you would address this without being prompted but...
I wanted to see if he did it again, considering I know my alignment. Its a completely anti town move . Give me one reason why not to hammer wbg right now please.
can you walk me through your thought process a little more? It seemed like you were against masons being in public given your agreement with toad. So why did you risk outing yourself?
Its a completely anti town move to out people like that without thoughts on alignment or actually any information. They may have been context with VE, but I thought of it as trading my role for confirming wbg as scum. it is that easy.
+ Show Spoiler [Finally here] +
On August 04 2012 01:40 Erandorr wrote:
EBWOP: at that point I wasnt actually certain that wbg was scum at all.
Something else I would like to point out that fucks over wbgs shitty logic even more, he pretended to give reasons on why he outed VE. Now what exactly were his reasons to out me , assuming he is town? He seems to think that I am town, so why do that to me?
EBWOP: at that point I wasnt actually certain that wbg was scum at all.
Something else I would like to point out that fucks over wbgs shitty logic even more, he pretended to give reasons on why he outed VE. Now what exactly were his reasons to out me , assuming he is town? He seems to think that I am town, so why do that to me?
Suddenly you become the victim of something you, apparently, could not forsee, making you look town. You try to convince people that WBG's move was anti-town, while the move against VE "may have been context", or was just "retarded", but not anti-town yet.
It doesn't even matter whether WBG is town or mafia! He could be scum, and you may have asked him to rat you out without you even being a mason. I don't know.
But you, Erandorr, I am very impressed with. That was clever. I will strive to be like you in the future.
Dear god I hope you are trolling
That's a whole lot of case to dismiss like that, especially if you turn around and try to aim at someone else, like this...
On August 04 2012 08:34 Erandorr wrote:
No Zephirdd, thats not what you said.
You said that masons should not claim unless their life depended on it. I have it as a quote in my post, buddy.
I am going to try this one more time. Slowly. Hang on.
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On August 04 2012 08:17 Zephirdd wrote:
@Erandorr
1. I said the people mason'd shouldn't claim "I was mason'd" because of this:
by Toad
However, this only applies when you are claiming that YOU YOURSELF were masoned. I admit I didn't put proper thought on this, but wbg says nicely when he says that now medics have their targets and now scum are forced to shot sub-optimaly.
A scum mason fears being outed because that will put him on the spotlight for the whole game. That's not exactly what scum wants.
Also, a medic's biggest dilemma is "who to save". When they have their "MUST SAVE" targets and scum are forced to shot suboptimaly, they are doing their job. Besides, there is always the WIFOM for both medic and scum "but what if I protect someone else because they think he will be save/but what if I shoot him because the medic will prot someone else"; In my opinion, this kind of WIFOM benefits the medic(and town) more than scum who either have to take a chance or shoot a really bad target.
Also, as long as only wbg did it and only now, I guess there is no problem with it.
Now, one odd thing is that wbg has been away for some time already. I usually don't like to think a vet would play badly. Him going away is bad for him being scum AND town. Maybe I'm wrong after all? :S
@Erandorr
1. I said the people mason'd shouldn't claim "I was mason'd" because of this:
The biggest issue: If you are masoned you don't claim. Ever. If you are masoned you either got masoned because someone thinks you're scum and wants to sacrifice himself to catch you with a trap in PM-Land for a 1v1 trade (highly unlikely but possible) or you got masoned because the guy thinks it's highly likely you are town and wants to talk with you to get another point of view on reads, to make sure he stays objective. So claiming you got masoned is basicly telling mafia "sup, someone think's I'm the most likely guy to be a townie IN THE GAME. Pretty please don't shoot me though". I don't like outing townreads and I don't like outing the strongest townread someone has either.
by Toad
However, this only applies when you are claiming that YOU YOURSELF were masoned. I admit I didn't put proper thought on this, but wbg says nicely when he says that now medics have their targets and now scum are forced to shot sub-optimaly.
A scum mason fears being outed because that will put him on the spotlight for the whole game. That's not exactly what scum wants.
Also, a medic's biggest dilemma is "who to save". When they have their "MUST SAVE" targets and scum are forced to shot suboptimaly, they are doing their job. Besides, there is always the WIFOM for both medic and scum "but what if I protect someone else because they think he will be save/but what if I shoot him because the medic will prot someone else"; In my opinion, this kind of WIFOM benefits the medic(and town) more than scum who either have to take a chance or shoot a really bad target.
Also, as long as only wbg did it and only now, I guess there is no problem with it.
Now, one odd thing is that wbg has been away for some time already. I usually don't like to think a vet would play badly. Him going away is bad for him being scum AND town. Maybe I'm wrong after all? :S
No Zephirdd, thats not what you said.
You said that masons should not claim unless their life depended on it. I have it as a quote in my post, buddy.
I am going to try this one more time. Slowly. Hang on.
##Vote Erandorr
