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Fruity Mafia - Page 21

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Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
February 15 2013 03:50 GMT
#401
Meta aside just the fact that its a smurf can be detrimental to town productivity. People spend more time figuring out who the player is than what alignment he is. and also its a borderline dick move to smurf in games to begin with so I feel no pity for any failed smurf attempts.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
February 15 2013 04:19 GMT
#402
Just saying that I think it's Toad doesn't actually help that at all as I can't actually prove it's him and someone else would have probably disagreed with me and then that would have been all we talked about.
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
February 15 2013 05:06 GMT
#403
that would make sense if you hadnt of made it a point to notify the thread you know who he is.
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-15 06:43:22
February 15 2013 06:03 GMT
#404
V-v-v-v-v-vote Count!

yamato77 (5) - Zessionar, Vivax, HiroPro, layabout, Hopeless1der
HiroPro (2) - Coagulation, marvellosity
Zessionar (2) - Artanis[XP], Hopeless1der, yamato77
marvellosity (1) - WeWinMafia
Coagulation (1) - grush57
Mattchew (0) - Vivax
risk.nuke (0) - Zessionar
layabout (0) - ObviousOne, grush57

Currently, no one is set to be lynched. With 16 players alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch. Deadline is in roughly 17 hours.

If you notice any errors in the vote count, please let me know!
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 15 2013 06:47 GMT
#405
On February 15 2013 08:50 layabout wrote:
crap didn't mean to post

yamato is willing to call zessionar scum and vote for him but he continues to post without backing up his vote even when asked.

##vote yamato77

So you're voting for me because I ignored you?

Alright, cool.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 15 2013 07:20 GMT
#406
Let me walk you through my thought process on Zess, since that seems to be what people think I'm not explaining.

When someone starts the game as he did, voting a player under "random" pretensions, I immediately am inclined to think they're mafia. It's a very dumb way to look like you're playing around and being funny with the rest of town, when in reality you're starting what sometimes becomes a trend, establishing an early atmosphere of voting people on a whim, for almost no reason at all. It is in these types of environments that mafia thrive.

And indeed, it did turn into a trend as soon as he threw his vote on me for something completely townie, and barely justifying it. How is me trying to figure out people's alignments scummy? To be clear, when I "insinuated" that Mattchew/Syllo were mafia, I was in the process of attempting to get information that would lead me toward their alignment. i consider the possibility that they are mafia, because in some way, what they're doing could come from a mafia perspective. In fact, since that time, the information I've been able to ascertain has told me the opposite, they seem town.

Why does he want to paint me scum so quick for this? And indeed, when I indirectly ask about his read, he says he hasn't called me scum. What sense does this make? If anything, it only serves to strengthen my bias against him, that he's not playing to figure out my alignment, he's playing to stir shit up with me and fuck off with his reads. His other "reads" have been very noncommittal, especially with regards to Marv, where he says he "agrees with Toad" (who has voted for Marv) and then lists a whole bunch of reasons he isn't jumping on it. Waiting for the opportune moment, I presume?

Perhaps I haven't really explained myself thoroughly up to this point, but when you look at him from my perspective, Zess' play makes no sense for a townie. The fact that he's continued to be spammy and contentless since my early vote on him only serves to steel my resolve. Dude is mafia.
Writer@WriterYamato
Zessionar
Profile Joined February 2013
Azerbaijan178 Posts
February 15 2013 07:58 GMT
#407
You need like one page of text for your argument which is:
Zess is throwing around votes for no reason, that leads to an environment where everyone votes for no reason.

But I really only did it very early on, where votes obviously mean almost nothing. And I did it to get the game going.
The phase of fooling around, to get the game going is over now.

##unvote

and hell yes i am noncomittal because it's fucking day1 and i have enough time left to take a stance.
If I want to lynch marv or anyone else, you will notice and i won't vote anyone (from now on) for no damn good reason.
your case against me is completely pointless, because all that doesnt make me scummy.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 15 2013 08:00 GMT
#408
I'll believe it when I see it.
Writer@WriterYamato
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
February 15 2013 09:30 GMT
#409
On February 15 2013 07:03 sandroba wrote:
I'm reading this thread constantly yet I find no will whatsoever to comment on anything. Toad and Zes are spamming the thread and producing no info whatsoever, marv seems content to comment without actually moving things alone and syllo has yet to come here and complain I'm not posting enough and has been pretty inactive himself. For now I'm set on lynching ObviousOne, because he is lurking the most and I have no background on him or Coagulation who I've yet to see do anything relevant in any game I played with him (also because I enjoy lynching jackal, so his offspring will have to do in his absence).

I never really have a problem with you not posting enough, but rather with what you post when you do, and certainly not when am not finding anything worth commenting on. Content-wise I've so far either agreed with everything you have said or found your reads consistent with what I would expect.

This game doesn't have enough content producers and has a bunch of people who rarely post enough to get a good read of them, which is why I wouldn't mind lynching someone like ObviousOne. However, looking at the very little he has posted so far, I'm not confident that he will flip mafia. In his newbie games he has been much more useful than he has so far been in this game, but it's still difficult to believe this is how he would post as mafia; he isn't even trying to fake content, but rather seems proud about the lack of it.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
February 15 2013 10:08 GMT
#410
Oh it's an extended majority lynch too. Perhaps lynching someone who is so far unreadable and who isn't likely to post much isn't a terrible idea for a day 1 lynch with the way things are right now. I'm still suspicious of Yamato, but the longer post above looks ok and the wagon hasn't met much resistance so far.

Marvel do you actually find hiropro's yamato vote and the later justification suspicious? Do you have a read on yamato?
Artanis[Xp]
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Netherlands12968 Posts
February 15 2013 10:17 GMT
#411
I'm here right now, slept most of day 1 because my left eye decided to hate on me. I think the case on yamato was weak; It's a small step to go from anti-town to scum, and rethinking it can be enough reason to change your opinion. Though I don't like that Yamato didn't straight out say that he now thinks he's scum earlier, I don't see it as a scum trait. I'm much more interested in Zessionar, HiroPro or WeWinMafia. I like Risk.Nuke's pressure on Zessionar so he feels a bit better now.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
February 15 2013 10:47 GMT
#412
What I previously said about Zessionar isn't really applicable since he ended up being supersoft. I think his tone has been slightly off so far, especially his earlier posts, but it may be due to him trying to be less abrasive. I don't think that's nearly enough evidence to day 1 lynch someone who has at least shown some indication that he wants to keep the town talking, however.
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
February 15 2013 10:58 GMT
#413
I don't like the Yamato wagon. The initial voters Zess(now withdrawn) and Vivax reasoning are straight out terrible.
Hiro's reasoning is quite weak, and quite disappointing after he dropped his big vote now I'll explain later.
The only one's reasoning that has a point is Layabout's. But even so I don't think the leap between bad and scum is that suspicious.



I told myself that this morning I'd have figured out who I want to lynch but well.
We have basically no performance from Obvious, Coag, Mattchew, Vivax, Grush.
Pretty disappointing performances from Syllo, Sandroba and Marv who've done zero scumhunting.

Are you still waiting for the game to start?
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
February 15 2013 11:12 GMT
#414
I don't conjure up content out of nothing. On day 1 catching mafia relies on mafia slipping since it's pretty much impossible to make a case based on some sort of overall attitude towards the game. I've pointed out a few more specific things I've found suspicious, but other than that right now my lynch of choice would be mostly by the process of elimination and that's thin given that I've only around five or six decent town reads.
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
February 15 2013 11:21 GMT
#415
I'm not asking you to conjure things. But the style you want to play doesn't work if nobody posts. And you can't say you can't make a case. Not a strong case sure but you don't always have that luxury. My mainproblem is I don't feel optimal about lynching someone who's been talking when there are still people who thinks lurking and being useless will get them a free pass.
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
February 15 2013 11:26 GMT
#416
You are absolutely right, it doesn't, which is why I said that the game doesn't have many "content producers", by which I mean people who post a lot even when there is little to talk about. Early on even rather meaningless banter can be helpful as it gives people the option to comment on things and puts some pressure on people who aren't talking at all.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36160 Posts
February 15 2013 13:01 GMT
#417
On February 15 2013 19:08 syllogism wrote:
Oh it's an extended majority lynch too. Perhaps lynching someone who is so far unreadable and who isn't likely to post much isn't a terrible idea for a day 1 lynch with the way things are right now. I'm still suspicious of Yamato, but the longer post above looks ok and the wagon hasn't met much resistance so far.

Marvel do you actually find hiropro's yamato vote and the later justification suspicious? Do you have a read on yamato?


I do find the justification weak, but I'm not entirely sure if it's scummy. It's not a strong read but there are little behavioral snippets from Hiro that make me think maybe he's not mafia.

##Unvote

I have to check on yamato, normally by now I would expect to have reasonably strong feelings one way or the other, and I don't. Somehow I also have no idea how he racked up 5 ? votes.

My lunchbreak is in 2 hours so I'll try to find out what the fuck is going on with yamato and either confirm/reject my feelings on Hopeless, then.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36160 Posts
February 15 2013 13:08 GMT
#418
Well, his filter is short, which is fairly worrying for yamato. I still didn't see 5-vote worthy, though. He's also in another game so presumably his time is divided. His longer post, while I disagree with some of the thought processes, seem consistent with how I imagine him to play town, it goes from a to b, and it's not angry or irrational. So now I have to go find out exactly why everyone's voting for him.

*steals work time*
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36160 Posts
February 15 2013 13:18 GMT
#419
Ok, so this yamato wagon is horrible. His votes:

Vivax - no reason

Zessionar - now unvoted, no reason originally

Hiro - 'insinuating' questions

layabout - not backing up Zess vote. He also makes a reasonable post about him:

+ Show Spoiler +
On February 15 2013 10:11 layabout wrote:
because you know, yamato was pretty vague in his accusations:

He also jumps from "Zess being stupid with that vote" to "I do think Zess is likely mafia at this point. His attempts at "scum hunting" are truly pathetic.
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 15 2013 00:33 yamato77 wrote:
I've never seen syllo and sandro in the game at the same time, yet I'm supposed to know they're all buddy buddy all the time?

Zess being stupid with that vote. Why are you trying to accuse me over questioning syllo's intentions?



+ Show Spoiler +
On February 15 2013 01:51 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2013 01:45 syllogism wrote:
On February 15 2013 01:40 yamato77 wrote:
On February 15 2013 01:33 risk.nuke wrote:
On February 15 2013 01:25 yamato77 wrote:
On February 15 2013 01:23 risk.nuke wrote:
I don't think Zess likes me. Not actually sure if he's mafia or idiot.

Why don't you think Zess likes you, and why is his opinion of you alignment indicative at all?

Read his posts and tell me if you reach a different conclusion otherwise I can't really be bothered to copying his posts and interpreting them for you..

It's not. However making up reasoning is.

Well I guess it makes sense since he jumped on me for the same kind of shit.

Do I see a trend appear? Who's next on his list, Marv?

This post seems off; do you think marv and risk are town? What is your current read on Zess?

Marv I would say looks quite town, yes. I don't know about risk, but the fact that he's looking at Zess is encouraging.

I do think Zess is likely mafia at this point. His attempts at "scum hunting" are truly pathetic.

Suddenly zess being "stupid" has become zess is "bad" and "is mafia" because of this. The criticism is the same in both cases but the conclusion changes.

When asked to clarify why zess is scum he describes his scumhunting as "careless" which tend to be a townie trait. And that he shows a "disregard for justification" which he himself has also shown.+ Show Spoiler +
On February 15 2013 02:00 yamato77 wrote:
I'm attacking how he is scum hunting, which is carelessly and with no regard for justification.


I think yamato felt that he could safely put his vote on zessionar following (Artanis[Xp] and Hopeless1der) because he had been the center of discussion. He was not prepared to back it up because he has no good reasons and because he is mafia and wants to get his vote down and hide from attention.



A lot of this is reasonable. For example: When asked to clarify why zess is scum he describes his scumhunting as "careless" which tend to be a townie trait. This is true, but yamato's thought processes aren't always completely correct. He actually DOES believe stuff like this as town, he's not quite refined what makes someone town and someone mafia.

Finally,

Hopeless - sheep.

There's only one backed up vote on the wagon, which is layabout's. Anyway, I'm not totally confident yamato is town or anything, but I think he's a bad lynch for today at any rate.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21959 Posts
February 15 2013 13:32 GMT
#420
What do you think of Oo?
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