EPTI Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia - Page 16
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote: Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced Thats because they were kind of forced. I was specifically asked to make reads, so I responded with the two single scummiest things I've noticed. But I have a method to the way I play this game. Take a look at this. I take notes like this for a reason: so I can recognize patterns in people's play, rather than harping on one or two scummy things they've done. That's why I'm hesitant to make hard reads early. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 13 2012 07:24 Keirathi wrote: Thats because they were kind of forced. I was specifically asked to make reads, so I responded with the two single scummiest things I've noticed. But I have a method to the way I play this game. Take a look at this. I take notes like this for a reason: so I can recognize patterns in people's play, rather than harping on one or two scummy things they've done. That's why I'm hesitant to make hard reads early. So you know that you do this as town, whats to stop you from doing so as scum? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 13 2012 06:07 strongandbig wrote: Gee how did I guess Gonzaw was gonna post a ginormous wall of text calling me scum again. It's like, if Gonzaw doesn't call you scum, you're not doing things right. If you think that defending yourself against minor accusations is a scum tell then you haven't learned from the right scum sensei. Good scum want to ignore anything that calls attention to their minor inconsistencies or other problems with their play. It's townies who want to make sure they address little things like "active lurking" accusations. As well as whatever the fuck you're accusing me of here. So I guess your points are that I "defended myself too much" and "didn't back up my reads?" Dude did you not just play a game with me? I almost never vote during the first 24 hours of the day. The vote is a tool for pressuring people, not just something you use to announce who you think is scum. And what's wrong with me pointing out things that I find scummy? It's like the first half of the first day, I don't know enough about anyone yet to be sure they're scum. Yeah, I think austin's post was scummy; I think Marv's post was scummy. That doesn't mean I think we should lynch them, it means they should freaking explain yourselves or whatever. Christ gonzaw you're frustrating. And you say I "cluttered up the thread with the balance shit" - do you notice that every time I mentioned it I said "it doesn't matter" and "we should be focusing on whether we think what Marv said was scummy"? Because I only kept talking about it because he was accusing me of being scum because I said it. Yeah so Gonzaw you want me to vote for someone? Well tough fuckin' titties. I think it's interesting that Marv found that inconsistency with Vixen or whoever he is; but it's not conclusive by any means. Right now I actually agree with you that austin is the most likely scum; like I said in the post you quoted, he went way more in detail than he needed to in responding to the thing about copying other people, and he also tried to reopen the discussion of tali's shitty plan thing. But I'm not ready to vote on it yet. I want to see how he responds to your ridiculous wall of text. ...relax dude. Wtf? Are you going to act like this every time you are accused? Damn you are worse than Greymist. Sorry, but this "defense" is you just acting all angry and "annoyed" at me (could serve to clutter things up, but you could do it as town too), so I'll just disregard it. If you want to "establish your innocence" then get to it. You don't need to have 100% accurate reads 1 hour into D1 to establish your innocence. On July 13 2012 07:05 Mattchew wrote: Gonzaw I strongly (pun intended) believe the strong is town and I do not want to lynch him today. He says stupid stuff, like "Sorry bro, but that's kind of the nature of the game I guess - any post could be made either by scum or by town? " but he also posts about his gut reads, which while they can be faked, I don't think he did. I think gut reads are very townie Weren't you the one that found his post suspicious? :/ Why are you backing off? Why the change of heart? On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote: Lets kill talis, Keirathi or scib Talis cause he's proposing anti town plans and then backpeddling super fast Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced scib cause he seems hesitant to post, and he posts this (it was spoilered) as he has not pushed a single read yet I don't agree about killing talis nor sciberbia. About talismania: Talis' plan was "bad" but that alone doesn't make him scum. When he posted he seemed to interact with people in a genuine way I think. The way he was discussing the RB deal and shit made me think he was town, mostly because he was eager to discuss it and interact with me/others. I think he seems townie for now, so I wouldn't want him lynched D1. About sciberbia: He did "push" some reads here: On July 12 2012 13:31 sciberbia wrote: gonzaw asked for some thoughts on Risen, strongandbig, and Mattchew. Obviously there is not much to go on yet, but here are my thoughts so far: risen+ Show Spoiler + I am a bit suspicious of risen 1)s0Lstice mentioned risen's conscious change in meta, which could make a lot of sense for someone playing as scum. It's a perfect defense to any meta arguments made against him: he can say he is actively trying to change the way he plays town. 2)Risen's overall tone is amiable and pleasant, which can be indicative of scum trying to be well-liked. I expect a more firm, objective, analytic tone from townies. See these posts: On July 12 2012 07:56 Risen wrote: Welcome to ICBINTMM in which Risen does not post in caps or call anyone an idiot THE ENTIRE GAME. Stay tuned to see if this actually happens...... On July 12 2012 10:38 Risen wrote: It's cool. It's nothing compared to what I handled from igrok my last game. Anywho, I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. On July 12 2012 10:41 Risen wrote: I'm down to call people out on their stupidity, I'm just not going to be so aggressive about it. So just take anywhere I'd call someone an idiot, a horrible host, a bad person, a failure at life, etc and replace it with kinder, gentler words. I think... On July 12 2012 10:42 Risen wrote: EBWOP: This shift isn't to appease anyone. I'm only doing it b/c past experience has shown that calling out idiots on their horrible play leads to them being reinforced in their opinions. So now I'll try to be gentle, kind Risen and guide them like sheeple. On July 12 2012 11:26 Risen wrote: I've heard worse plans  On July 12 2012 12:39 Risen wrote: Holy shit I used a smiley face... Of course it is also plausible that risen is townie and just trying to have some fun. 3) For me, the most suspicious thing in Risen's filter is his address @gonzaw: On July 12 2012 09:49 Risen wrote: Any particular reason you're trying to push something on people with a low post count in thread so early? Didn't even know lurking was possible at this point. So you're either an extremely eager townie or scum looking for easy targets to push early. As gonzaw pointed out, this is some shoddy scumhunting. First of all, "looking for easy targets to push early" isn't very convincing mafia motivation for gonzaw's posts. But more importantly, Risen is condescending towards gonzaw but then concludes that gonzaw is either eager townie or scum. Risen doesn't actually say anything worthwhile at all in this post. One townie point in Risen's filter: On July 12 2012 10:41 Risen wrote: I'm down to call people out on their stupidity, I'm just not going to be so aggressive about it. So just take anywhere I'd call someone an idiot, a horrible host, a bad person, a failure at life, etc and replace it with kinder, gentler words. I think... On July 12 2012 10:42 Risen wrote: EBWOP: This shift isn't to appease anyone. I'm only doing it b/c past experience has shown that calling out idiots on their horrible play leads to them being reinforced in their opinions. So now I'll try to be gentle, kind Risen and guide them like sheeple. His 1-minute EBWOP shows that he is unafraid and didn't put all too much thought into either of these posts. I see this as indicative of a townie. There are all my thoughts on Risen. I'm keeping my eye on him. strongandbig+ Show Spoiler + On July 12 2012 07:33 strongandbig wrote: sup bros i am currently watching Le Closer in french in my hotel room. Scum y'all best get ready to get motherfucking interrogated I'm not going to find him scummy off this one post. If anything, I think he is townie because I think a scum strongandbig would be more likely to pause his movie and go make a decent post or two than a townie strongandbig who isn't as worried. Mattchew+ Show Spoiler + I don't have a significant read on anything in his filter right now. His first post doesn't strike me as scummy. Also, I am a little bit suspicious of marv+ Show Spoiler + On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote: naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over) I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons. Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense. Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan! People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. Talis proposed a slightly idealistic, impractical, and unnecessary plan. I think this was clear to everybody. But Marv not only takes the time to criticize talis's ideas, but also says that he'd like to lynch talis. A good, townie marv should say something like "Talis proposed a 'nonsense' plan. I think this is evidence that he is mafia because X, Y, and Z. Therefore I would like to lynch him." But marv doesn't say why he thinks talis is scummy. In fact marv doesn't even say that talis is scummy, just that he would like to lynch talis for his "never-ending bullshit". @marv Do you really think talis is scummy? If so, why? They seemed genuine to me. I get a gut town read on him, the way he posts and responded to my question and stuff made me think that. Also this: On July 12 2012 15:44 sciberbia wrote: on Risen I'm no longer suspicious of Risen. His recent posting reads townie to me. The last 3 posts have been direct responses with response times of 4 minutes, 4 minutes, and 3 minutes. Additionally, the substance of these 3 posts is somewhat controversial and could catch him some flak (having no reads, wanting to make connections first, thinking dropbear is suspicious). It would take guts as scum to make such posts so quickly. Risen gives me the feeling he is completely unafraid, even though gonzaw and I previously voiced suspicions of him. So now I'm thinking townie on him. The way he backed off Risen doesn't make me really think he's scum. "Noob" scum rarely back off people and thoroughly explain why (unless of course they are scumbuddies). Why are you voting him Mattchew? What about all those guys I listed in my previous post? (Risen/Dropbear/Milkton/Kei/austin) Do you think sciberbia is more likely scum than any of them? What do you think of austin? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I can't see anybody other than those 6 being scum for the moment (Milkton's last post doesn't strike me as scummy, so he could be town perhaps), so I think we should focus our attention on them for today's lynch Of course I won't "force" you to do anything (if you think someone else is scum), but at least pay some attention to those guys and if you trust my reads pay even MORE attention to them and post your thoughts (this applies to everybody too). | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote: Lets kill talis, Keirathi or scib Talis cause he's proposing anti town plans and then backpeddling super fast Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced scib cause he seems hesitant to post, and he posts this (it was spoilered) as he has not pushed a single read yet loooool I love how you shit on my plan and then literally followed it to the T in that post. Three reads, one sentence explanation, at 24 hours into the game. :-) In response to your blurb on me I think "backpeddling super fast" twists my words. I posted a half-assed plan expecting it to get shot down but knowing it would probably generate discussion. don't see how analyzing the reactions means I'm backpeddling. What's with your needling of me in general? I ignored the "are you just active lurker" post at first but maybe keirathi is onto something with you. ____________ I'd prefer austin or dropbear, leaning dropbear. I don't like milkton's last post either. There's a touch of omgus to my feelings there but I also think his argument he just made about me doesn't make much sense. Although come to think of it I dunno why he would come in out of the cold and start making a case on me does seem a bit random as scum. austin's reply to my poke at his post was rather overwrought which fits with my model of him as nervous scum but I guess that could just be the way the guy is too. solstice you said you know him - what do you make of it? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 13 2012 06:04 austinmcc wrote: Milton's post is fluffy but as people keep noting every time he comes up, he said he'd be gone for 12-24 hours before the game started: No read on him yet. Here were my earlier thoughts on Risen: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 01:31 austinmcc wrote: I'm more interested in Risen though. Need to read him and see if he actually doesn't have scumreads early, but does that sit alright with people? My D1 reads are AWFUL, but I still have them. How do you read the game as town and not have scumreads? Anyway, Risen's filter is a lot of talking about how he's going to play this game. Which is helpful, lets us know his plan and can explain away some differences in behavior. But it's basically filler about oneself. Early interaction with Gonzaw, which ends with this: When he speaks about DropBear later, we get: He could be scum bussing a scumbuddy. He could be scum calling out town. He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said. Dunno. Being wrong as a townie is plenty forgiveable. It's going to happen, especially on the early days. But not scumhunting, or not having reads until later in the game, isn't helpful to town at all. Even if you don't trust your reads early as much as your reads late, you've got to contribute. Apart from just not having contributed much except the discussions concerning Gonzaw and DropBear, neither of whom he has any strong feelings on, it just doesn't feel like Risen has done anything this game despite having a lot of posts. Hasn't really been activity since then, so my read is roughly the same. I don't like that a lot of his filter is about how he's going to play this game, with the rest being non-reads and his statement that he doesn't like to make reads early. I still don't know what to make of the statement about not liking to make reads early. It doesn't fully correspond with past games. I said I'd go back and look, and I did. SSB:+ Show Spoiler + On July 03 2012 04:26 Risen wrote: How can you be agreeing with this? iGrok you've hosted this before I feel like your giant cred post at the very beginning was an attempt to make everyone confirm you as town right off the bat, but as someone coming in late to the party I think your behavior is very scummy and I don't think someone who knew how this game worked would suggest your plan. We should be minimizing town stock loss. What do you mean "if the scum don't follow us it's clear who they are". Yeah no shit, this plan works out perfect for them why wouldn't "they" follow it. The more I think about it the more I KNOW you wouldn't post some stupid idea like this as town. Add to this your removal of two people from the item position list? What the heck man. All you've done by removing two people from the item list is make it so mafia has a better chance of getting an item. Want to minimize mafia chance of item while maximizing town chance so we're not double stacking? Then have us go down the list in numerical order and say that's left, bottom left, center, etc. Same for left, center, right on the position discussion. I'm going to be voting iGrok for lynch at this point. On July 03 2012 07:02 Risen wrote: Don't post in big caps. I was wrong on that, cool. Fact remains we have a smaller buffer. No need to shout. I'm almost 100% iGrok is scum. He doesn't get heated like this usually. Within the first day of SSB, he's decided two players are scum. However, his Cephiro read DOES match up with what he said this game, that he likes connection cases, because he finds Cephiro scummy based on his finding iGrok scummy Area 53: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote: I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me. ##vote layabout I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too. On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time. I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim. Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess. I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel. ##vote marvellosity On April 23 2012 06:45 Risen wrote: Risen was scum this game, threw around a good number of votes in thread but not as many actual reads as above. Again, focused heavily on connections like who was voting for VE or who found him scummy after the "Risen is scum" idea was proposedWhat kind of stupid shit is this? By request of jubjub Pac I'll respond. Wishy washy? What the hell do you want from me not even a day into the game? How the hell could ANYONE have true feelings of someone being scum that early on. You can have policies that guide you, such as kill every idiot you see, like anyone on VE or lynch lurkers like BM, but you can't possibly have feelings of people being scummy that early on. Only people who are atrocious at this game would take that point seriously. Oh look, we have pac taking it seriously. I'm so shocked. You say this posting looks like Toad from LI? Awesome. I'm not Toad. Also, where do you get me being SUBMISSIVE to layabout. The guy was playing like an idiot and I called him out on it. If you count me apologizing for cursing as being "submissive" then you need to get your head checked. How can you go from me voting layabout to trying to get approval from him. Stupidity at it's finest. BUT Pac wants me to address this piece of shit case so lets keep going. On to your little bullets. 1) I've been busy as all hell, but I've been trying to come in and read and post instead of lurk. Screw it, I should have just lurked. You're right, posting in the thread is anti-town. My bad, I was wrong. I'll stop posting. 2) Not taking a solid stance? I SAID DONT DIRECT BLUES. IT IS BAD. How much more solid does it get? What do I have to do to make it more solid? 3) A flimsy vote on layabout? You right... because votes before a day has passed in the game are going to be super solid. Oh wait. They're not. Only an idiot or scum would try and say something like this. I'm leaning idiot because at least your vote isn't with the derps on VE. 4) I like how you call me passive and then point number 4 is saying I'm being too aggressive. This case is air tight guys, let's all get on the Risen choo choo. Right Janaan? 5) People don't have lives my b I always forget about that. I wasn't supposed to head back to Vegas until next weekend and when I signed up for this game it didn't matter anyways. It took two years to start, though, and I've only been able to read the thread from my phone. Now I'm able to type on a keyboard and tear this horrid case to shreds. I'll sum this case for all you dolts voting on me. Risen isn't playing like his town play usually is (but lets not link any of Risen's filters and quote anything from previous games, lets just SAY that's how it is and pray people don't actually check his filters.) Wow. Slam dunk case Paq, glad I took the time to respond to it. Why are you on me again? I don't have much time, I'm driving back to Flagstaff very shortly. I'm going to cut all this nonsense short and post cases against every person on VE. They're all idiots and/or scum who should be killed. GoT:+ Show Spoiler + On March 23 2012 06:01 Risen wrote: Everything about this post screams emotional overreaction to being voted with something that is clearly not a serious vote. For reasons I can't put my finger on, I get the feeling from this post that Acro is either horrible, horrible town, or trying to just talk with mattchew so they can generate discussion that looks pro-town. Makes me feel like Acro and mattchew are both scum. More proof of my earlier feeling. Even more... Entire post is about how he wants to lynch Mattchew... but the last line is telling. He's clearly giving himself an out for when he decides miraculously not to vote mattchew because "someone more scummy" has come along. A legitimate post calling out a lurker. My feeling: [r]scum[/r] He's the most scummy read I have thus far. On March 23 2012 06:04 Risen wrote: Most of my problems with Mattchew have been summed up in my post on acro. He's either town who is seriously focusing on one guy who other people find suspicious (why should he spend so much time refuting what this guy is saying), or he's scum and coasting by arguing with another mafia guy. Neutral read for now. Scumread on Acro, although a good ways into D1. Finds Mattchew possibly scummy based on his interactions with Acro. I stopped at that point, although there's a little more GoT D1 and LI. But he DOES look like he makes a lot of his reads, even D1, off of connections. The game in which he was most active with voting, he was scum. For now I still find his filter this game odd, because it's quite a few posts to not have reads, but past games make me less uneasy about his statement that he doesn't like to scumhunt early, it's not just making an excuse to coast for a day or two this time around. Right now I'm leaning town on him, because of his response at the end of SSB64. In the scum QT there, Acro and Cephiro talk about how to deal with him, and note that "if he learned to control his rage and angst i think he'd be a really good player." So for now, I think that while his filter seems off, it's off because he's trying to actually do that. I think that also addresses some of your worries here because the kind attitude and posting style are perhaps an adjustment from the norm. Oh, I've been ninjaed by your other post. I'll respond to that shortly. So...you think Risen is town then? I don't get this, why did you go through the trouble of searching 3 games of his just to see if his "claim" made sense? if you think he's town, why analyze all his games and shit yet still say that "his filter this game is odd". Like, you go through all this trouble to not conclude pretty much anything. ....but why? Why not do this with someone you actually think is scum instead (not someone you think may be town)? Why not pay attention to the game first and post your thoughts on other players/scumhunt instead of focusing 100% of your attention on 1 guy you don't even think is scum? This doesn't make much sense whether you are scum or town to be honest, you are wasting too much effort to do something not worthwhile at all in both scenarios. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On July 13 2012 07:43 Mattchew wrote: So you know that you do this as town, whats to stop you from doing so as scum? That's the kind of WIFOM crap that gets new people lynched for no good reason. There's been so much arguing about meta in this game so far. The real problem is that you just don't have a meta for me, so you can pick apart things I say without having all this other history to contradict you. The same argument could be made for literally every argument that someone was town because of how they played in the past, including you. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
[QUOTE]On July 13 2012 05:46 gonzaw wrote: austinmcc: I'll ignore his 1st post since it has nothing worthwhile in it. [QUOTE]On July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote: [QUOTE]On July 12 2012 11:06 Mattchew wrote: Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me[/QUOTE] That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning. Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw?[/QUOTE] Big fluffy post. Like talis said, he seems to "add" something to the "talis' plan is bad" discussion....but he doesn't add much at all. Saying it will clog up the thread is not news, and Mattchew and others said what was wrong with the plan before. The worst thing is he makes a great deal out of it by basing his whole post on that part. I say basing his "whole" post because his 2nd paragraph is like the biggest pile of fluff ever. Did you really need to post so much just to ask "What do you guys think of gonzaw's scum play?" or something? Like...your whole post could be reduced to "tali's plan is bad and I want to know how you guys catch gonzaw as scum", which means your post is SOLELY filler, and as you can see that statement alone doesn't contribute anything about the game either. Really...that post is pretty bad. [QUOTE]On July 13 2012 01:31 austinmcc wrote: [QUOTE]On July 13 2012 00:43 talismania wrote: Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan (for those who care) marvellosity [QUOTE]On July 12 2012 08:54 marvellosity wrote: [QUOTE]On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote: pardon me for some half-assed musing: since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others).[/QUOTE] no next [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote: naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over) I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons. Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense. Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan! People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people.[/QUOTE] Predictably shits on it, suggests policy lynching me out of his annoyance that I keep proposing these dumb plans. austinmcc [QUOTE]On July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote: [QUOTE]On July 12 2012 11:06 Mattchew wrote: Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me[/QUOTE] That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning. Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw?[/QUOTE] Actually this reads scummy again on the second go-round too. He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all. [/QUOTE] Talis, underlined portions of Marv's posts are what I interpret as his reactions to your plan. Underlined portions of mine are my reaction that I wrote. Two things. One, [quote]He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all. [/quote]this. If you think I'm just "expanding on" marv, that IS adding something. Otherwise Marv's initial "no" is it, and EVERYONE who disagreed is just "expanding on no." Two, here WAS new content, specific scenarios that I noted your plan could lead to, which I think are bad and weren't mentioned by others:
Overall, I think your plan is bad if you want us to follow, and still bad if you want to gauge reactions to it. You got responses from a little more than half the thread, which is alright, but you need a plan that SOME people want if you're going to actually generate "discussion." You got reactions, but not actual discussion. People weren't weighing the pros and cons of the plan, people were just saying no to it. That doesn't get you the sort of interactions that I want to draw conclusions from, because nobody gains town OR scum points for being the 5th or 6th person to pooh pooh a plan that nobody likes. I'm more interested in Risen though. Need to read him and see if he actually doesn't have scumreads early, but does that sit alright with people? My D1 reads are AWFUL, but I still have them. How do you read the game as town and not have scumreads?[QUOTE]On July 12 2012 15:18 Risen wrote: I think it's too early for anything. I don't really like to make reads without any connections (this might be a bad thing to do). I just think it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team, not as individual scum members. [/QUOTE] Anyway, Risen's filter is a lot of talking about how he's going to play this game. Which is helpful, lets us know his plan and can explain away some differences in behavior. But it's basically filler about oneself. Early interaction with Gonzaw, which ends with this:[QUOTE]On July 12 2012 10:38 Risen wrote: I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. [/QUOTE] When he speaks about DropBear later, we get:[QUOTE]On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote: For example: this could be DropBear bussing/giving his teammate a way to backtrack on his plan or it could be scum calling out a townie. I'm not saying I even have a scumread on drop as he seems to want a pro-town environment, which is something I'm all for, but this is something that could be used to confirm a connection in my mind at a later point in time. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote: EBWOP: He could also just be a townie doing pro-town things. This is the most likely option. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On July 12 2012 15:25 Risen wrote: I don't like how drop is trying to take the lead here and I think previously with all this "hey mate decent line but try this instead" or "hey mate lets be bros but I don't think you should be doing this" I generally don't like anything that could be considered guidance coming from anywhere other than a plan with spelled out logic.[/QUOTE] He could be scum bussing a scumbuddy. He could be scum calling out town. He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said. Dunno. Being wrong as a townie is plenty forgiveable. It's going to happen, especially on the early days. But not scumhunting, or not having reads until later in the game, isn't helpful to town at all. Even if you don't trust your reads early as much as your reads late, you've got to contribute. Apart from just not having contributed much except the discussions concerning Gonzaw and DropBear, neither of whom he has any strong feelings on, it just doesn't feel like Risen has done anything this game despite having a lot of posts.[/QUOTE] Talking about bad posts. That 1st part is absolutely unnecessary. He keeps talking about tali's plan and tali's accusation of him, but why? Talis said that austin was suspicious because he didn't add much about his criticism of his plan before.....so why did he feel the need to explain everything about how bad that plan is after being called out? Talis didn't tell him "you are suspicious because you can't find reasons why my plan is bad", so why did he spend like 4 paragraphs and a wall of text to explain so? Even more importantly....why does it matter? How could heavily debating why tali's plan was bad (even after 90% had already stated why) be any helpful at all? It just clutters things up and makes your post look big, and of course it just makes it so you appear active and contributing when you haven't done shit until then. The 2nd part is equally bad: [quote]I'm more interested in Risen though[/quote] [quote]He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said. [/quote] WTF!!?? So the player you find most interesting is one you think is town? Also I don't get it, he seems to accuse Risen of many things, but then says he thinks he's town, but then he keeps accusing Risen. That seems very inconsistent, what does he actually think of Risen? If he thought Risen was town...why waste his post on posting his thoughts on someone he thinks is town? Why not ignore it and post about someone he thinks is scum? As you can see...later he never posts anything at all about who he thinks is scum, nothing. Just like S&B's accusation of austin, austin accuses Risen but never mentions him later (albeit he didn't have that many posts). That seems fishy as fuck. Okay, I guess this is how you read Gonzaw. Nice to see everything that's fallen out of his poking half the thread, will be looking it over after posting this. Well, here's my response I guess. (1) So everyone agrees that the Talismania bits come off weird, and don't seem townie. 'Cause Talismania comes off weird to me, and I guess that made my thoughts on him and response less than clear. In the beginning, he proposes a plan expecting it to get negativity. Been clear that he expected that. Except he then engages some magical Part 2, in which he wants to get information from how people shat on it. Really, I still don't like this second stage. Because you end up with is "Here are 7 people that didn't like the plan, and here's how some of them didn't like it in non-novel ways," then you got us nothing. It's a lot of posting, and what seems like activity, for nothing. And seriously, what did we actually take away from the Plan Part 1 or Plan Part 2? I don't think we got anything out of it at all. If I don't think Part 2 was helpful, then I'm not going to like him trying to call me out for that. Look at my response, and see that there's a difference between me (1) pointing out why the initial plan was bad and (2) pointing out why Part 2, where he says I didn't contribute anything new. I'm addressing why my critiques were different than the ones already made, and to the extent that I'm rehashing what those critiques were, it's to show that they were different. Basically, nobody liked Part 1. Talis pulls out Part 2, calls me scummy with it. I don't think Part 2 is helpful to town, and I think he's misrepresenting my earlier post, saying that there was nothing new. That's what I'm responding to, it's a little convoluted because it's both me trying to show where he's misrepresenting what I'm saying, but also the whole time I'm writing that Part 2 of this plan isn't sitting right with me. Was it brief? No. Was it particularly well thought-out? No. But I wouldn't say that I'm usually brief. Both in game and in obs chats I tend to be a little wordy. (2) As to the Risen bits, you're misreading and Marv is correct. Those were Risen's thoughts on dropbear: + Show Spoiler + As Marv pointed out "He could be scum bussing a scumbuddy. He could be scum calling out town. He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said" was my summary of Risen's posts. You must have missed them, because my words there are exactly what Risen said about DropBear. That's the only actual read he'd given at this point, and it was summed up by my quote. I'm not posting in a confusing manner there, I'm showing how DropBear posts were confusing and you just missed them earlier. As to the rest of the bit on Risen, I was weirded out by this post. Just straight up says he doesn't like making reads without connections. Yet that's what EVERYONE has to do D1 basically. I went back through his filter and he does lean towards connection cases, so I'm less weirded out by it but...did this not strike other people as odd? Not just it's too early, but it's too early + I don't like making reads without connections. If you're scum, it's an easy way to coast through a few days. If you're town, then what's the reasoning? I assumed the reasoning was he didn't like making reads early because he didn't trust them much. That's why my response has some feel-good crap in it about how it's fine being wrong, because I don't see the reasoning behind that statement unless it's "I don't like that my early reads are wrong." Overall Gonzaw, you misread my stuff on Risen. I responded to your concerns about him, but reread the back half of my bad post and see if it looks better once you actually look at his posts on DropBear. That stupid quote from me was basically what he'd said. You also, and this is important, because I'm not liking Talismania right now, misread both the fallout from Talismania's plan AND my post. My post is addressing his Part 2, showing why one of the few things he's offering up as the reason he started Part 1 is him being disingenuous about what I'd added. I think you're being slightly disingenuous as well when you say .. okay, seriously. My computer won't accept end quote tags all of a sudden. That's why I keep giving URL links. Gonna have to fix this. But you say "Even more importantly....why does it matter? How could heavily debating why tali's plan was bad (even after 90% had already stated why) be any helpful at all? It just clutters things up and makes your post look big, and of course it just makes it so you appear active and contributing when you haven't done shit until then." (1) 90% of people hadn't already stated why it was bad. Look at Talis's little summary of people who commented. It's 7 people long, and one of them is him misinterpreting your post. That's not 90% of the thread. (2) Again, I'm not saying why the plan was bad. I'm trying to say that he's incorrect in saying I didn't add anything. I think he's really stretching what people have said to try and make it seem like Part 2 of the plan was somehow helpful, when really it's not. ##Vote: Talismania I don't buy this two-part plan nonsense, and I don't think it's helpful at all. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
- gonzaw i dont intend to respond like that to everyone who accuses me. Just you. I really didn't like the way you played in mtg mafia. - Austin: why are you acting as though talismania had this two-part plan? That's clearly not what happened. He just spewed his normal day1 plan, then later on decided to do the reaction thing to salvage some info, but you're acting as if the whole thing was premeditated. - keirathi is probably scum. combination of gut read plus he posted a couple things that look like what I would have done in my scum game when i was uber nub. look at his filter - he accuses two people but doesn't commit to either accusation. That in itself is suspect but not necessarily scum; but the accusations are for reasons that don't make sense. he accuses tali for saying his own plan is stupid and he accuses me for not calling tali scum b/c of his plan, when I was actually saying how I did exactly that in a previous game and tali was town. ##vote: keirathi (for now). - voting keirathi cause I can't tell yet whether austin is scum or just kinda flipping-out townie. austin i know you were in pyp or poison or something but was that your first game? - i can't read talismania yet, and I don't trust myself to read talismania at all. - I think mattchew is probably town but it's mostly just based on the fact that he's sort of trying to contribute. He's capable of playing a number of different ways as scum so I'm not sold one way or the other yet. See yall tomorrow! | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
The case against talis isn't just that he came up with a half-assed plan. He's been really defensive all game and hasn't really put much effort into the scumhunt. If you look at his play from that light he seems pretty scummy. Just look at how many times he's defended himself without adding much to the conversation. @ Mattchew I have a difficult time making a read on Keirathi. Having played with him in previous games his town play has always been a little strange to me. My current understanding of his town meta is that he's not a very strong D1 player, but he gets better as the game goes on. I'd like to give him the BOTD based on that. As for sciberbia I'm a little suspicious, but I don't think we have enough to go on to get a read either way. I think we have better options for lynch. For now I think talis is the best option and I'm looking deeper into the cases made against austinmcc. These are the two best cases that I've seen. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On July 13 2012 08:15 strongandbig wrote: - keirathi is probably scum. combination of gut read plus he posted a couple things that look like what I would have done in my scum game when i was uber nub. look at his filter - he accuses two people but doesn't commit to either accusation. That in itself is suspect but not necessarily scum; but the accusations are for reasons that don't make sense. he accuses tali for saying his own plan is stupid and he accuses me for not calling tali scum b/c of his plan, when I was actually saying how I did exactly that in a previous game and tali was town. ##vote: keirathi (for now). No, I called you out because you are giving him a free ride for a bad plan just because he was town and proposed a similar plan when he was town in another game. That doesn't make sense. Either you think proposing the plan is scummy so you push him (like you said you did in the previous game), or you don't think its scummy. You're being inconsistent to the point of defending him for bad play. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 13 2012 00:00 talismania wrote: you know for all the shit that plan predictably gets at least it never fails to generate a few pages of discussion. Btw the only time people ever followed a version of it was in bastard 2, but that was because I had a gun and no one else did (and it worked then). The point of it is and always has been to see how people react to it or comply with it, not who they accuse or whatever. He just wants to use the mention of the plan to generate discussion. Then he wants to look at those reactions. Looking at the reactions and trying to make something out of them is the Part 2 that I'm talking about. Yes, it's not a shuttle launch or anything, but it seems pretty clear from his post that he's proposing the 3-case plan as part of a second plan, to look at reactions. Thing is, that second part is as worthless as the first. If he KNOWS that the plan predictably gets shit, then aren't the reactions bogus? Everyone is going to shit on it. There won't BE discussion and nobody's going to comply. Look at how it played out. He gets 6-7 reactions (if you don't count Gonzaw, who apparently wasn't trying to comply). That means 1/2 the rest of the thread commented. They all didn't like the plan. What are we supposed to learn from that? People who didn't like it, but weren't the first to not like it, are scum? What's the train of thought that gets you to that conclusion? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
It concerns me that Keirathi is trying to use meta (or lack of it) as a reason to back off him. Who I'm particularly interested at the moment (read - he's scum), though, is s0lstice. I had this nagging feeling in the back of my head that I was missing someone from all these thoughts you brought up, and it was him. He has a sum total of zero scum reads so far. On July 12 2012 07:39 s0Lstice wrote: like backflips? anyway, in the other games I've played with sciberbia, he has had a post prepared as soon as the daypost hit the presses. it usually contains his thoughts on the typical day 1 fodder etc. needless to say he has never played scum. I'm wondering where he is.. This post, what does it say? 1) sciberbia is always town (so far) 2) sciberbia always makes introductory posts fast at the start of the game 3) sciberbia has not done so here What we're missing is the conclusion. He insinuates the idea that sciberbia might be scum based on the fact that he hasn't posted yet, but he doesn't say it. He just leaves the idea there. On July 12 2012 10:15 s0Lstice wrote: maybe I misread, but I'm pretty sure Marv was addressing Talis with those lines you quoted, gonzaw. As far as the names you listed, I wouldn't want to kill any of them right now. Austin has easy town meta, I feel confident I can recognize it. Mattchew, Risen, and s&b are just blank pages. I am nervous however of Risen making a conscious effort to change his play-style. I read him right in SSB64 but just barely. Lots of people he DOESN'T want to kill. On July 12 2012 10:57 s0Lstice wrote: it's not too fast. day 1 is weird, and it only really gets going when people do what you do. right now I'd want to hear from Vivax, mainly. my dear Vivax, what do you think of the people gonzaw posted about? do you find it scummy that they appeared excited to post, yet didn't say much past their intro? "it's not too fast" - this was in response to gonzaw shooting out the blocks with scumreads and pointing fingers. s0lstice approves of this but does none of it himself. He asks Vivax if he finds something scummy, but he avoids saying that thing is scummy himself. Does Vivax find it scummy... idea planted - without saying what s0lstice thinks. On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote: Keirathi, assuming you are still around... why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan? More questions... ok. "why so verbose about lurkers?" - you tell me, how is a townie really supposed to answer that question satisfactorily? It's like, a non-question. It feels like he's saying he's suspicious of it without saying anything about it. He asks what Keirathi thinks of talismania's plan but HE DOES NOT OFFER HIS OWN OPINION. His final few posts in his filter are asking about gonzaw and his PM / # of scum crap, saying it gave him townie points. He's... townhunting? There's no scumhunting in s0lstice's filter. There are leading questions to which he never provides his own opinion (talis' plan, 'do you find it scummy' at vivax) or statements where he implies something but never says it (scib hasn't posted yet), and appreciation for gonzaw starting scumhunting early but doing nothing himself. I believe s0lstice to be the best day 1 lynch. ##Unvote ##Vote: s0lstice | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
neutrality/passivity+ Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 00:57 marvellosity wrote: Having a quick flick through a few filters, Keirathi comes across as sounding incredibly neutral. I've noticed the same thing about Keirathi as marv: that almost everything hes says is bland and not controversial. He does a lot of talking about very matter-of-fact things: On July 12 2012 08:19 Keirathi wrote: Well, ideally since this is not a newbie game, we shouldn't have townies lurking much. Its a bit different in newbie games because people don't really know how to play, and since everyone here should have a decent idea of how to play, then people lurking is strategy rather than ignorance. That's not to say that I think lynching lurkers is a particularly good idea, but looking into lurkers has more merit in this type of game than a newbie one. As far as claims, I myself haven't played in a game where masons/roleblockers claimed, so I'll have to look into it, but I agree with the points made about RB'ers so far, so that at least makes sense. An unclaimed miller causes more confusion than its worth though, and I can't really think of a situation in which a miller wouldn't want to claim. On July 12 2012 08:49 Keirathi wrote: We don't have doctors anyways. On July 12 2012 17:25 Keirathi wrote: He said when he joined that he was going to be afk for 12-24 hours when the game started. On July 13 2012 06:00 Keirathi wrote: Those posts are reasonably close together, and his response to me was the only one where he had been mentioned. Granted, its just the last 3 posts in his filter before you made this accusation, but it seems like a pretty baseless accusation. Pre-Post edit: sorry I'm replying to this late. I've been working through the 75 posts that were made while I was asleep/at work making notes. These posts give me the feeling that Keirathi is just looking for easy posts to make. Especially the last one. I don't know why Keirathi feels the need to defend Talis from a very minor accusation from Mattchew. unconvincing scumhunting+ Show Spoiler + I could probably look through every other player's filter right now and find an original, insightful reason for accusing somebody. But all of Keirathi's accusations are based off evidence that had already been mentioned or just seems trivial and unconvincing. On July 12 2012 15:38 Keirathi wrote: The only things that have thrown up yellow flags so far were people proposing less than optimal (read: bad) policy plans, ie talis, but I don't feel that was necessarily out of a scum mindset, just didn't think it through very well. However, like I said, its about patterns in behavior which is why I keep notes the way I do (which you saw in NMM XIX). Here is the first time Keirathi talks about anything he finds even mildly suspicious, and only after I prompted him for it. He repeats the already-covered "bad plans" but doesn't really go anywhere with it. I asked him for suspicions and he wrote a few sentences which say basically nothing. On July 13 2012 03:33 Keirathi wrote: So I was going back through the thread looking for more information, when this leaped out at me. When I read it the first time through, I didn't think anything of it because I don't have previous experience with you, but if you propose the same plan in every game you play in, then how is it "half-assed musing" this time? It feels like you're pre-emptively making an excuse for a bad plan. And why, as a townie, are you half-assing things anyways? I don't buy into his point here at all. He brings up talismania's plan yet again, and makes some very easy criticism of Talis. "pre-emptively making an excuse for a bad plan" isn't convincing scum motivation to me. Talis's post is easy to criticize, but I think it's a stretch to say it's scummy. marv demanded some real reads and Keirathi posted this in response:+ Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 06:55 Keirathi wrote: Certainly. strongandbig + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote: Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET. Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] + The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that. NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you. + Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy. He comes in by leaving himself an excuse for his inactivity that he can fall back on later, then proceeds to lay out basically an entire case based on pure speculation. So why are you letting him have a free pass for doing it this time? Together, I feel this is a decent case for him being scum but his recent reply to gonzaw's post gives him so townie cred back in my eye. I'm still keeping an eye on him. DropBear I'm mainly suspicious here of his vote for Vivax. When his previous calling out of Vivax was simply asking questions + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 01:39 DropBear wrote: Vivax I am very confused as the reasoning behind your voting so far. Why did you choose strongandbig initially? What do you mean by an informative post? Cos he made a case he must be town or something? What are the differences in sciberbia you talk about? As an aside, its pretty frustrating that so many arguments in this game are based on meta. As someone new to TL, I feel like I am disadvantaged when you all have so much extra information on each other. Both of these reads are easy criticisms of players that have already been criticized. Keirathi said strongandbig left himself "an excuse for inactivity that he could later fall back on". This seems like another stretch. strongandbig just said he was watching a movie. That's not a great excuse for inactivity and even so only buys him a couple hours. I highly doubt that a scum strongandbig would be scheming about how to get out of posting for 2-3 hours. Keirathi also criticizes strongandbig's post on marv and balance, but again this had already been covered by other people. His suspicion of dropbear was based off the vote on vivax. This is yet another easy point to accuse somebody on (a random vote) and again had already been covered in the thread. In conclusion, Keirathi's scumhunting is generally unoriginal, and unimpressive. A couple of his points feel like a stretch to me. This would be consistent with scum because scum knows that everyone else is town and has to try extra hard to contrive reasons why players are supsicious. Overall, I would rate Keirathi as somewhat suspicious I've got to go now, but I'll be back in a 2 hours and I'll look at the cases on other players at that time. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
##Vote: talismania I'm off to work. I should be back in a few hours. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
first as to this "two-part" business - the second part was not planned at all from the beginning. That was more of a lemonade from lemons let's see if there's anything there. If I misrepresented your post then I misrepresented it I guess? You had a few more facets in there than mattchew + marv but again why add those, especially when you acknowledge in the same post that my plan is bad "which seems to be the general sentiment" (paraphrase). Again it's less about what you say and more the fact that you said stuff at all, and how you said the stuff that seems out of place to me. secondly, wtf is voting for me without even calling me scum? All you say is that my plan is bad, ergo vote (that's my understanding I hope i'm not misrepresenting again). what? Like, show me as town why you make that oversight - failing to actually connect the dots at the end from "here's the behavior and here's why it makes him scum". Did you just forget or something? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
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