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While Yamato isn't confirmed town, he's pretty damn close to it. He's definitely more confirmed than pretty much everyone in this thread. I agree with marv that this discussion is altogether pointless.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Hey Firm.
Here's a few names
Umasi
Zaragron (i know you've talked about him before today)
justanothertownie
kush
Who's scummiest out of this lot and why? Do you think there are mafia in this list, if so how many?
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On September 25 2013 05:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sentinel what did make you change your mind on yamato on D1?
I agreed with him, this is when I convinced myself that Chairman was scum and yamato was right.
On September 25 2013 05:59 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 05:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:First read: FirmTofu's case on Zaragon seems to be more concerned about saving his own ass - he even mentions it in the opening - which makes his case look more motivated to post some sort of read for the sake of posting reads. The parenthetical aside part of his argument, like marv before me mentioned, is actually mistaken by itself. So there goes the integrity of that read. I'm not going to rehash marv's arguments over there, but it ends with FT defending his stance on towns being committed to their reads - marv claims the opposite with towns not being 100% sure who is scum. What is important here is that in FT's mind, townie players need to commit to their reads. I don't know if it was his intention, but this post heavily implied he was one of the players who as town commits to their reads: postOn September 24 2013 07:22 FirmTofu wrote:
I'm back. All caught up. I'm starting to have reservations about my case on Zaragon :/
brb doing some filter diving. Switches to me. Pandain calls him out on it, with the post asking if Marv convinced FT of his argument. So FT contends that Zaragon is his top read (although it is shit, and he says so) and keeps his vote on it. Bracketing this for a second, here is the interesting bit. Now what his read on me is is all the stuff I've done earlygame. He claims that we were looking for vig targes - were we? I'm pretty sure the beginning of Day 1 we hadn't found anyone to vig yet. Anyways, he brings up my weak Coag vote, my switches onto Stutters and Umasi, and brings up arguments that can be considered somewhat valid. Until he brings up yamato: Later, he switched to Yamato, who is now basically confirmed town barring crazy shenanigans. No real reasoning provided for this vote switch. Just decides Umasi isn't going to gain steam so decides to vote someone else. Final sentence is true. First two are not. I voted for Yamato when he had only two posts of considerable length, and the second one made him look like a scumfuk. I think I even justified the vote earlier in the thread. At this point I thought Chairman Ray was town and yamato was isolating him for an easy lynch - and FirmTofu completely waves away the detailed thought process I laid out on why I switched from my townread on Chairman to being the final nail in his coffin. "Seems sketchy at best. I can vote this guy." That's all the rationale he gives. So in summary, FT's current two reads, say what you will about their targets, are both heavily flawed. His number one read, which he acknowledged had holes in it to Pandain, is still his number one read at the time of this posting. That's incredibly scummy to me - instead of finding the best proof he can, he just latches on whatever reads he can find without regard for their solidity. Hello Sentinel. Good to have you here. I would like to address what you said about my supposed belief that townies need to commit to their reads. I don't hold this belief at all. I think townies generally end up committing to their reads, even to a point of fault. This behavior is not good town play, it's just what ends up happening when someone rolls town, at least in my experience. I, personally, do not usually commit to reads when I am town. If you saw my post regarding my own self-meta, you should be able to get an idea of how I play as town.
Back to you. You initially voted Coagulation and then never really talked about him much after that. Is there anything Coagulation did or said that convinced you he wasn't scum?
I read the filter that marv told me to read, and his play as town there was pretty much a carbon copy of his play here. So I switched to my other scumread, Stutters. Then later I picked up Umasi, a better scumread at the time, and then yamato.
Guess I was wrong about your implication. Like I said, I didn't know if it was your intention, but from your wording it seemed like you would commit to a fault like the townies you speak of. Anyways, my point still stands that you really haven't offered much on Zaragon ever since marv poked holes in your first read.
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Gotta leave for swim practice, back around 01:40 GMT (+00:00). I'll see if I can't shoot a Cheesecake read once I return.
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On September 25 2013 06:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 05:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sentinel what did make you change your mind on yamato on D1? I agreed with him, this is when I convinced myself that Chairman was scum and yamato was right. Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 05:59 FirmTofu wrote:On September 25 2013 05:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:First read: FirmTofu's case on Zaragon seems to be more concerned about saving his own ass - he even mentions it in the opening - which makes his case look more motivated to post some sort of read for the sake of posting reads. The parenthetical aside part of his argument, like marv before me mentioned, is actually mistaken by itself. So there goes the integrity of that read. I'm not going to rehash marv's arguments over there, but it ends with FT defending his stance on towns being committed to their reads - marv claims the opposite with towns not being 100% sure who is scum. What is important here is that in FT's mind, townie players need to commit to their reads. I don't know if it was his intention, but this post heavily implied he was one of the players who as town commits to their reads: postOn September 24 2013 07:22 FirmTofu wrote:
I'm back. All caught up. I'm starting to have reservations about my case on Zaragon :/
brb doing some filter diving. Switches to me. Pandain calls him out on it, with the post asking if Marv convinced FT of his argument. So FT contends that Zaragon is his top read (although it is shit, and he says so) and keeps his vote on it. Bracketing this for a second, here is the interesting bit. Now what his read on me is is all the stuff I've done earlygame. He claims that we were looking for vig targes - were we? I'm pretty sure the beginning of Day 1 we hadn't found anyone to vig yet. Anyways, he brings up my weak Coag vote, my switches onto Stutters and Umasi, and brings up arguments that can be considered somewhat valid. Until he brings up yamato: Later, he switched to Yamato, who is now basically confirmed town barring crazy shenanigans. No real reasoning provided for this vote switch. Just decides Umasi isn't going to gain steam so decides to vote someone else. Final sentence is true. First two are not. I voted for Yamato when he had only two posts of considerable length, and the second one made him look like a scumfuk. I think I even justified the vote earlier in the thread. At this point I thought Chairman Ray was town and yamato was isolating him for an easy lynch - and FirmTofu completely waves away the detailed thought process I laid out on why I switched from my townread on Chairman to being the final nail in his coffin. "Seems sketchy at best. I can vote this guy." That's all the rationale he gives. So in summary, FT's current two reads, say what you will about their targets, are both heavily flawed. His number one read, which he acknowledged had holes in it to Pandain, is still his number one read at the time of this posting. That's incredibly scummy to me - instead of finding the best proof he can, he just latches on whatever reads he can find without regard for their solidity. Hello Sentinel. Good to have you here. I would like to address what you said about my supposed belief that townies need to commit to their reads. I don't hold this belief at all. I think townies generally end up committing to their reads, even to a point of fault. This behavior is not good town play, it's just what ends up happening when someone rolls town, at least in my experience. I, personally, do not usually commit to reads when I am town. If you saw my post regarding my own self-meta, you should be able to get an idea of how I play as town.
Back to you. You initially voted Coagulation and then never really talked about him much after that. Is there anything Coagulation did or said that convinced you he wasn't scum? I read the filter that marv told me to read, and his play as town there was pretty much a carbon copy of his play here. So I switched to my other scumread, Stutters. Then later I picked up Umasi, a better scumread at the time, and then yamato. Guess I was wrong about your implication. Like I said, I didn't know if it was your intention, but from your wording it seemed like you would commit to a fault like the townies you speak of. Anyways, my point still stands that you really haven't offered much on Zaragon ever since marv poked holes in your first read.
I am a bit puzzled. Did you think yamato was town when you voted for CR?
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Cheesecake is the epitome of useless this game and that makes him likely town.
Saved you the trouble.
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On September 25 2013 06:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 06:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 25 2013 05:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sentinel what did make you change your mind on yamato on D1? I agreed with him, this is when I convinced myself that Chairman was scum and yamato was right. On September 25 2013 05:59 FirmTofu wrote:On September 25 2013 05:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:First read: FirmTofu's case on Zaragon seems to be more concerned about saving his own ass - he even mentions it in the opening - which makes his case look more motivated to post some sort of read for the sake of posting reads. The parenthetical aside part of his argument, like marv before me mentioned, is actually mistaken by itself. So there goes the integrity of that read. I'm not going to rehash marv's arguments over there, but it ends with FT defending his stance on towns being committed to their reads - marv claims the opposite with towns not being 100% sure who is scum. What is important here is that in FT's mind, townie players need to commit to their reads. I don't know if it was his intention, but this post heavily implied he was one of the players who as town commits to their reads: postOn September 24 2013 07:22 FirmTofu wrote:
I'm back. All caught up. I'm starting to have reservations about my case on Zaragon :/
brb doing some filter diving. Switches to me. Pandain calls him out on it, with the post asking if Marv convinced FT of his argument. So FT contends that Zaragon is his top read (although it is shit, and he says so) and keeps his vote on it. Bracketing this for a second, here is the interesting bit. Now what his read on me is is all the stuff I've done earlygame. He claims that we were looking for vig targes - were we? I'm pretty sure the beginning of Day 1 we hadn't found anyone to vig yet. Anyways, he brings up my weak Coag vote, my switches onto Stutters and Umasi, and brings up arguments that can be considered somewhat valid. Until he brings up yamato: Later, he switched to Yamato, who is now basically confirmed town barring crazy shenanigans. No real reasoning provided for this vote switch. Just decides Umasi isn't going to gain steam so decides to vote someone else. Final sentence is true. First two are not. I voted for Yamato when he had only two posts of considerable length, and the second one made him look like a scumfuk. I think I even justified the vote earlier in the thread. At this point I thought Chairman Ray was town and yamato was isolating him for an easy lynch - and FirmTofu completely waves away the detailed thought process I laid out on why I switched from my townread on Chairman to being the final nail in his coffin. "Seems sketchy at best. I can vote this guy." That's all the rationale he gives. So in summary, FT's current two reads, say what you will about their targets, are both heavily flawed. His number one read, which he acknowledged had holes in it to Pandain, is still his number one read at the time of this posting. That's incredibly scummy to me - instead of finding the best proof he can, he just latches on whatever reads he can find without regard for their solidity. Hello Sentinel. Good to have you here. I would like to address what you said about my supposed belief that townies need to commit to their reads. I don't hold this belief at all. I think townies generally end up committing to their reads, even to a point of fault. This behavior is not good town play, it's just what ends up happening when someone rolls town, at least in my experience. I, personally, do not usually commit to reads when I am town. If you saw my post regarding my own self-meta, you should be able to get an idea of how I play as town.
Back to you. You initially voted Coagulation and then never really talked about him much after that. Is there anything Coagulation did or said that convinced you he wasn't scum? I read the filter that marv told me to read, and his play as town there was pretty much a carbon copy of his play here. So I switched to my other scumread, Stutters. Then later I picked up Umasi, a better scumread at the time, and then yamato. Guess I was wrong about your implication. Like I said, I didn't know if it was your intention, but from your wording it seemed like you would commit to a fault like the townies you speak of. Anyways, my point still stands that you really haven't offered much on Zaragon ever since marv poked holes in your first read. I am a bit puzzled. Did you think yamato was town when you voted for CR?
Well the post that started all of it had yamato give several scumreads, then vote for Chairman Ray out of all of them. By this point I had an easier time believing Chairman was red rather than green.
When I thought CR was townie, scum yamato could have easily isolated and lynched Chairman since he would prove to offer the least resistance. As scum-CR though, why would scum yamato insta-bus his teammate? He offered several good reads and picked one that didn't look too strong. He'd be a lot safer, at least initially, and have the extra man, if he pushed let's say DarthPunk after that big post.
But he stayed on Chairman. So if Chairman is scum, like I convinced myself he was, yamato must have been town. Now I'm unsure if yamato was scum or simply misguided, so I'm looking to his more recent activity.
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EBWOP (Now that Chairman flipped blue) in that last paragraph to make it clear
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Sentinel, same list and question to you as I asked Firm, if you don't mind?
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On September 25 2013 06:14 ObviousOne wrote:
Cheesecake is the epitome of useless this game and that makes him likely town.
Saved you the trouble.
Not so much useless as not posting at all. There's a difference, if you want to get into that sort of thing. Regardless, I am indeed town and would thoroughly enjoy lynching scum today. Have a handful of townreads that I'm fairly confident on. I'm OK with lynching Sent / LM / Pandain / Zaragon.... mayyyyyybe FT.
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I was just reading Umasi's filter and I'm having a bit of trouble following his thought process.
On September 23 2013 03:02 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 17:19 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 16:39 Umasi wrote:
feel free to ask questions then OK. I dont follow the progression here. On September 22 2013 16:25 Umasi wrote:
I think ray is probably town On September 22 2013 16:26 Umasi wrote:
wait after reading his post (didn't see it when I posted) he's even more probably town Referring to post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=54#1073Im more concerned about the first post. Why feel the need to give a free town read on someone that wasn't being discussed at the time. Because I think he's town. Chairmans just pretty good lynchbait he certainly was last game, and his play so far has evoked an identical feel. on another note, find it annoying how you're like 'umasi hasn't talked enough about the important things in the thread' and then ask me about two one liners. kinda wacky, but I have a town read on you. idk about FT, slightly scummy for me, because of how contrived his pressure on DP felt for a silly reason Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 23:54 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I think despite Umasi's allegations to the contrary, he's been contributing nothing of value. After LoneMeow leaves he decides that since he can't get anymore fuel, he'll unvote. And then really all he talks about is people who aren't scummy looking.
I'm switching from Stutters to him because at least with Umasi, if he does end up flipping red then his filter becomes more useful than Stutters who just pushed kush all day. Since apparently pressuring him isn't working and he's lurking harder than ever. We could vig stutters though.
I don't like yamato's big post either. He calls DP mafia, rayn scummy, and then quotes Ray's fluffpost and says HE'S THE SCUM. And he's really got nothing else to show, especially afterwards he doesn't rationalize anything. I'm leaning red on him. Umasi seems more red to me but yamato has more to show for further analysis if he flips red.
But I'll keep my vote on Umasi for now.
##Unvote
##Vote: Umasi
Otherwise, out of the filter dives I want to say something about WoS but I can't quite put my finger on it. Perhaps I'll say something about him and also Koshi when I get back. thank god your thoughts on me basically are 'if he's red, man we have some things to go on' and 'he hasn't talked about important things!' Lynching for information is something I'm a firm disbeliever of, I think it's frequently a scum tool fwiw, I told you guys I'd respond to questions you had for me (and the only one I've seen is mocsta's) mocsta kinda grouped us together as non-contributing-flying-under-the-radar dudes iirc, so you suddenly voting me with THAT shit reasoning is why I'm voting you, because it feels you're like 'quick target the other dude who's in a similar position to me' also there's a vote thread, use it ##vote sentinel
We see an OMGUS vote on Sentinel. Not really alignment indicative because town are guilty of this just like mafia are.
Then he gets pressured by rayn about his vote and slowly backs off, explaining that his vote was simply the best of the options available to him.
On September 23 2013 04:10 Umasi wrote:
annoying thing is I don't feel that strongly about the sentinel lynch, just stronger than other lynches that have been tossed around.
kinda want to see what people think though
Note how the confidence in his reads has drastically diminished over the course of these two posts.
Then, near lynch, we have these kinds of posts.
On September 23 2013 10:57 Umasi wrote:
sentinel vote for justice!
do it do it do it
On September 23 2013 10:59 Umasi wrote:
no I mean people should vote sentinel for justice :|
He doesn't take a stance on the two candidates that are most likely to be lynched, as if he knows both are town and doesn't want to risk changing his vote and being called scum for it. He also is now suddenly way more confident that Sentinel is scum, despite being dissuaded by rayn at one point in the thread.
:/ I don't like Umasi at all.
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Fair enough Sentinel.
FT quick question, what is your read on VE? What was your read on VE on D1? A couple of words is enough.
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Rayn and marv since you are here - what is your current opinion on a FT lynch?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On September 25 2013 06:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 06:14 ObviousOne wrote:
Cheesecake is the epitome of useless this game and that makes him likely town.
Saved you the trouble. Not so much useless as not posting at all. There's a difference, if you want to get into that sort of thing. Regardless, I am indeed town and would thoroughly enjoy lynching scum today. Have a handful of townreads that I'm fairly confident on. I'm OK with lynching Sent / LM / Pandain / Zaragon.... mayyyyyybe FT.
The bold and the underline don't go together very well.
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On September 25 2013 06:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 06:14 ObviousOne wrote:
Cheesecake is the epitome of useless this game and that makes him likely town.
Saved you the trouble. Not so much useless as not posting at all. There's a difference, if you want to get into that sort of thing. Regardless, I am indeed town and would thoroughly enjoy lynching scum today. Have a handful of townreads that I'm fairly confident on. I'm OK with lynching Sent / LM / Pandain / Zaragon.... mayyyyyybe FT.
Sweet jumping Jesus you scared me.
BRB getting my heart out of my throat.
Okay so he could still be scum just being lazy since he worked real hard to win us our last game together. <3
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On September 25 2013 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
Hey Firm.
Here's a few names
Umasi
Zaragron (i know you've talked about him before today)
justanothertownie
kush
Who's scummiest out of this lot and why? Do you think there are mafia in this list, if so how many?
I would say JAT is the only one I find that looks definitely townie on that list. I find kush very hard to read, so I can't really comment on him yet. Umasi and Zaragon look scummy to me, for reasons previously stated in the thread.
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On September 25 2013 06:25 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 06:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On September 25 2013 06:14 ObviousOne wrote:
Cheesecake is the epitome of useless this game and that makes him likely town.
Saved you the trouble. Not so much useless as not posting at all. There's a difference, if you want to get into that sort of thing. Regardless, I am indeed town and would thoroughly enjoy lynching scum today. Have a handful of townreads that I'm fairly confident on. I'm OK with lynching Sent / LM / Pandain / Zaragon.... mayyyyyybe FT. The bold and the underline don't go together very well.
I don't need to post to find scum.
And there are at least 2 scum in that list
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On September 25 2013 06:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Fair enough Sentinel.
FT quick question, what is your read on VE? What was your read on VE on D1? A couple of words is enough.
Town, for now. I thought he was scum on Day 1, but his contributions since then have been extremely strong. My read has changed.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On September 25 2013 06:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 06:25 marvellosity wrote:On September 25 2013 06:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On September 25 2013 06:14 ObviousOne wrote:
Cheesecake is the epitome of useless this game and that makes him likely town.
Saved you the trouble. Not so much useless as not posting at all. There's a difference, if you want to get into that sort of thing. Regardless, I am indeed town and would thoroughly enjoy lynching scum today. Have a handful of townreads that I'm fairly confident on. I'm OK with lynching Sent / LM / Pandain / Zaragon.... mayyyyyybe FT. The bold and the underline don't go together very well. I don't need to post to find scum. And there are at least 2 scum in that list
If you really want to lynch scum, how about narrowing it down and picking out those mafia then?
Or do you think you'll fulfil your goal of "thoroughly enjoying" lynching mafia by doing nothing?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On September 25 2013 06:24 justanothertownie wrote:
Rayn and marv since you are here - what is your current opinion on a FT lynch?
Uneasy. TBD
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EPT
