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All of this boils down to the fact that we should be lynching GGQ :D
In all seriousness, I really would appreciate the reasoning behind sandroba. I can understand not wanting protact to die (I share the sentiment) but sandroba feels like a really poor choice and almost an attempt to cash into the anti-sandroba sentiment from yesterday. All we're (and by me I mean the people who have been posting in the last five pages) asking for is a reason that isn't a rehash of yesterday's argument which you guys poopoo'd. I think a lot of us (at least Toad does and like I already said I've started to as well) harbor at least some suspicions of sandroba however the manner in which you're presenting your case is running up some red flags (and certainly my suspicions are not lynch worthy yet, hence why I'd like to hear your case).
Also BC, I'd love if you could mason me next cycle (I assume you've already used it this cycle).
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On January 21 2012 06:50 p4NDemik wrote:
None so far proven but I feel I have one under the spotlight and I'm with you on BM.
Why are you and BC so self-unassured and relying on Proact? You guys are supposed to be super good veteran townies. Have more faith in yourself and have more faith in some of your fellow town. And most of all have faith in your read we all still think it is good.
BM is BM. All reads on him although could possibly be accurate could be summed up with its BM. The risk of losing protract earlier because BM decided to troll us all is an actual possibility. We still have other leads which is why we opted to move to those. This isn't unreasonable to want to keep a strong analyzer alive longer. As for whoever said if he is a hatter and has a bomb on protract isn't that more a reason to lynch him? are you a friggen moron -_-
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 21 2012 06:50 vaderseven wrote:
Come on foolishness. Isnt the fact that he claims a bomb on a good scum hunter more reason to lynch him than not.
You are acting like protact is a for sure goonee when BM is lynched and there is no resonable reason to think that.
Why would you take the chance? If the town was in a desperate situation I'd totally agree, but right now we have the game under control.
On January 21 2012 06:50 p4NDemik wrote:
None so far proven but I feel I have one under the spotlight and I'm with you on BM.
Why are you and BC so self-unassured and relying on Proact? You guys are supposed to be super good veteran townies. Have more faith in yourself and have more faith in some of your fellow town. And most of all have faith in your read we all still think it is good.
I have plenty of faith in myself. I also have more faith in the person who has caught 30% of the mafia team so far.
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On January 21 2012 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
All of this boils down to the fact that we should be lynching GGQ :D
In all seriousness, I really would appreciate the reasoning behind sandroba. I can understand not wanting protact to die (I share the sentiment) but sandroba feels like a really poor choice and almost an attempt to cash into the anti-sandroba sentiment from yesterday. All we're (and by me I mean the people who have been posting in the last five pages) asking for is a reason that isn't a rehash of yesterday's argument which you guys poopoo'd. I think a lot of us (at least Toad does and like I already said I've started to as well) harbor at least some suspicions of sandroba however the manner in which you're presenting your case is running up some red flags (and certainly my suspicions are not lynch worthy yet, hence why I'd like to hear your case).
Also BC, I'd love if you could mason me next cycle (I assume you've already used it this cycle).
Look at the filter of him as mafia and him as town then compare to this game. You can say "oh well that game had pms so his filter will be smaller" but just look at the type of contributions. He is most active day 1 then kinda vanishes completely from thread never leaving a real mark. He has done the same this game. He isn't really pushing candidates for lynches, calling people out for posting badly, etc.... like he did in GM's aborted game. The style of play is quite different. All three of us I think had a town view of roba day 1, he played very pro town. Since then he has done sweet F all. Not doing much 1 day is something you can almost go "everyone has a bad day" but two in a row is pushing it, factor in his few posts today and day 2 were more or less crap leads this to be a far better lynch choice.
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United States13896 Posts
why would bill be actively trolling us like this? your argument for not voting for him is defining his play as anti-town but you qualify it by saying he is actual town that is trolling us? why are you ignoring the much more likely probability that he is mafia and his anti-town actions are anti-town because he is MAFIA?
seriously I don't have this mad history with BM is he capable of ruining games like this? I know he's been banned but is this really the more likely possibility right now?
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On January 21 2012 06:51 p4NDemik wrote:
Seriously these three are beyond reason right now. This is super fucking fishy.
Ok ok ok everyone hold your horses. We'd all like to hear a coherent case out of the triumvirate. However let's not let things get blown out of porportion. Yes, we'd all like them just to spell it out, yes we are frustrated at their collective inability to explain wtf is going on. However now is not the time for veiled attacks on their credibility. This is the kinda thing I called out opz (still scum btw) for. We can be frustrated but it's not necessary to start spreading doubt yet. If they can't get their shit together by the lynch and the lynch falls apart and one or two townies die then we can start calling for some heat. Until then let's give them an oppertunity to respond to our requests. I think we (and by we I once again mean the recently active people) have made it clear what we need to hear. Let's not go overboard and start heaving accusations till we've heard their responses.
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As a note, I am heading to work and will be back most likely after the lynch.
Everyone who is reading this thread determining choices on who to lynch read the posts myself/foolishness/protrac have made then compare them to the ones on the other side.
Everyone should be voting KingJames. After that there are many cases you could be on, I strongly advice sandroba, and both of foolishness and protract have posted similar views. Please vote properly.
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United States13896 Posts
I don't care how many mafia they caught I'm gonna call a fishy play fishy. I'm not calling for their lynch yet or anything. Cool your jets, but don't act like they are beyond questioning their motives.
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it's really funny. If those 3 would not push for sandroba I'd be all over him but I have still no idea how this happened so fast :p
It's not about if he's scummy or not. I'm pretty sure most people think he is at least scummy but the fashion in which we're switching is just so weird. Like everyone says white all the time and 10 secs later everyone's on "yeah black it is".
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On January 21 2012 07:00 p4NDemik wrote:
why would bill be actively trolling us like this? your argument for not voting for him is defining his play as anti-town but you qualify it by saying he is actual town that is trolling us? why are you ignoring the much more likely probability that he is mafia and his anti-town actions are anti-town because he is MAFIA?
seriously I don't have this mad history with BM is he capable of ruining games like this? I know he's been banned but is this really the more likely possibility right now?
Look at his mod notes. There should be several mentions of stuff that's happened in there. This is a case where he has actually done stuff like this in the past, it's really not that far fetched.
Also I think those currently reading the thread need to all take five. We have a fairly good atmosphere going right now and it'd be a shame to throw it away.
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For those uncertain about their second vote and uncomfortable voting sandroba I highly recomend GGQ.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 21 2012 07:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 06:51 p4NDemik wrote:
Seriously these three are beyond reason right now. This is super fucking fishy. Ok ok ok everyone hold your horses. We'd all like to hear a coherent case out of the triumvirate. However let's not let things get blown out of porportion. Yes, we'd all like them just to spell it out, yes we are frustrated at their collective inability to explain wtf is going on. However now is not the time for veiled attacks on their credibility. This is the kinda thing I called out opz (still scum btw) for. We can be frustrated but it's not necessary to start spreading doubt yet. If they can't get their shit together by the lynch and the lynch falls apart and one or two townies die then we can start calling for some heat. Until then let's give them an oppertunity to respond to our requests. I think we (and by we I once again mean the recently active people) have made it clear what we need to hear. Let's not go overboard and start heaving accusations till we've heard their responses.
I think we're all blowing this out of proportion and thinking too hard about this.
Why are we saying let's not kill BM? Well what if he is a hatter and telling the truth? We not only killed a townie but lost our best scumhunter as well.
Do I think it's likely BM is telling the truth? No, but it's a possibility. Is town in a desperate situation where we need to take chances? No
If BM is mafia, then mafia will not kill Incog cause they want to keep BM from getting lynched. That's okay cause Incog can stay around to find the rest of the mafia team. If the mafia do decide to kill Incog, then we can go straight ahead and kill BM, and I will not ask questions lol
This isn't supposed to be complicated. We don't need to be taking chances at this point so why bother?
Incog and BC have both been suspicious of sandroba, and sandroba has yet to contribute all game so we have decided to go with that. Do I think there are better lynches than sandroba? Yes. But that's okay because sandroba fits the theme. I'm not going to sit and argue for better targets, it's important that we are all on the same page. Incog and BC know who I think is mafia, and that will be the starting point for tomorrow's lynch.
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On January 21 2012 06:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 06:50 p4NDemik wrote:
None so far proven but I feel I have one under the spotlight and I'm with you on BM.
Why are you and BC so self-unassured and relying on Proact? You guys are supposed to be super good veteran townies. Have more faith in yourself and have more faith in some of your fellow town. And most of all have faith in your read we all still think it is good. BM is BM. All reads on him although could possibly be accurate could be summed up with its BM. The risk of losing protract earlier because BM decided to troll us all is an actual possibility. We still have other leads which is why we opted to move to those. This isn't unreasonable to want to keep a strong analyzer alive longer. As for whoever said if he is a hatter and has a bomb on protract isn't that more a reason to lynch him? are you a friggen moron -_-
I made that argument when he was first pushed as a lynch and was ignored. This is beginning to look more like one, if not more than one, of your triumvirate knows BM is most likely a hatter. If that is the case lynching him would be a most excellent thing to do. And don't start telling me how many scum you guys have outed. 2 were killed by Vigs. Plus outing your entire scum team is en vogue atm. Several of us in this game just did it with very successful results.
I am leaving shortly and won't be back on until late tonight. I foresee a real clusterfuck occurring over the next several hours and am sorry I shall have to miss it.
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United States13896 Posts
His only actual ban has been a 2 day that plexa gave him because of a mafia incident but I don't have any context as to what it is. Mafia matters are mostly carried out through mafia and I don't know any of what Bill's transgressions are. This is so frustrating that his bad history is coming into play like this to try to discredit a perfectly good lynch. If he acts like this as town he shouldn't be allowed back into games this is idiotic. If he is town won't he just get another ban immediately? If he cared enough to come back into this game why does he have motive to be an idiot again?
I'm not seeing this BM is a troll town case and this is feels like a cop out.
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I lied. Watchmen is best graphic novel.
I'll vote for bm and someone else.
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First off, I'm going to throw out a disclaimer that self meta is generally worthless. However, I am the king of self meta, for what it is worth. As the mafia GF, when Incognito (he is playing on the name Protactinium) was on my team, I really slipped into obscurity, but I was actually VERY active out of the thread. It's the same when I was an assassin and killed BloodyC0bbler as he killed me, causing no assassins to win whatsoever, and I was out of the thread entirely. I have been posting in the thread on d2 and d3, though. When I'm mafia, if I'm going into lurking mode, I post way less frequently than I'm posting - sorry for the WIFOM - but it's true.
I know people change, trust me on that, but how can we grow as a town unless you all let me help you? I have not one, but TWO abilities for the town, and you all are thinking of canning me? Why'd you elect me?
I'll tell you why I don't want to lynch kingjames. The game I was looking into the other day where he was endgamed and Jackal was scum is very similar to this one, and he was a townie in that one.
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Eh wht the fuck is sandroba beeing voted? Have I seriously missed something?
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On January 21 2012 07:10 p4NDemik wrote:
His only actual ban has been a 2 day that plexa gave him because of a mafia incident but I don't have any context as to what it is. Mafia matters are mostly carried out through mafia and I don't know any of what Bill's transgressions are. This is so frustrating that his bad history is coming into play like this to try to discredit a perfectly good lynch. If he acts like this as town he shouldn't be allowed back into games this is idiotic. If he is town won't he just get another ban immediately? If he cared enough to come back into this game why does he have motive to be an idiot again?
I'm not seeing this BM is a troll town case and this is feels like a cop out.
It's not that I'm trolling, it's that every time I try to do something good it bites me in the ass. Look at PYP.
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##Unvote: p4Ndemik
##Vote: Bill Murray
And stuff. p4n, if you're scum you're likely to show it in the coming days, so I'm willing to give that to you. BM has had ample time to show that he cares about town, but all he's succeeded in doing is introduce confusion, doubt and fear in town. That's a scum-agenda. I'll vote BM.
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Ok here is my read on the game thus far.
The following players are being very scummy:
kingjames01
Bill Murray
Foolishness
BloodyC0bbler
GGQ
Why are these guys scummy?
GGQ
+ Show Spoiler +Let me address GGQ first, he is the easy one. He is the definition of a purposefully skatting by player that has added NOTHING useful at any point in the game. I will be unvoting him as I think he isn't a good lynch choice as there is scummier people around.
Bill Murray
+ Show Spoiler +I have never really liked his play completely and then his claim comes up. He has claimed that if he is lynched the most successful town scum hunter will die. He did not bread crumb this. He did not hint at it. He claimed it hours before he thought he was to die. HOURS BEFORE. His claim intended to create a knee jerk reaction. This guy is scum.
Foolishness
+ Show Spoiler +I really, REALLY dislike the day 1 campaign he ran to get Bill Murray into office. Especially since Murray has proven himself to be commited to a very scummy agenda. The meta of BM before this game was that he trolls/breaks games or whatnot. This guy pushed hard for an election on said person before BM even posted in the thread! I think foolishness saw a chance to get the attention focused on someone is either disruptive in habit (if BM is town) or to get his scum mate elected that he will cause confusion and when needed can later be turned on as an awesome bus.
With the meta of BM, I doubt any scum mate that had BM as a team mate would think BM is going to live all the way to the end game. Having him distract the game, control a elected spot, and then be lighting rod of bussing is an amazingly awesome item.
KingJames01
+ Show Spoiler +Honestly I have seen scum focus in like you have so many times. When a more experienced player does this as scum it usually is a bus attempt or because of some weird meta. I think you are making an awful case in an attempt to cleverly double bus. If your target is lynched you look good and if you are lynched he looks good.
BloodyC0bbler
+ Show Spoiler +I hated your day 1 play. It was just plain distracting and not a good conversation for in game play. That kinda debate happens in IRCs and Forums all the time (usefulness of masons) and it was like bringing Left Wing vs Right Wing USA politics into play. There is no right answer yet people feel strongly one way or the other based on gut feelings.
Fast forward to now. You are saying that it makes more sense to not lynch a very scum player because he is always anti town and that anti towns player of placing bombs on a town asset 'might' be true. Unacceptable.
Bill Murray's claim is hogwash. You dont just throw bombs out there and then claim it later on. Even a noob to the greatest level would see the purpose of leaving a clue as to who you bombed. If you don't, you might as well not claim.
You have set it up so you can say you were right no matter what and that stinks. If BM is lynched and flips scum then you had called him scummy. If BM isn't lynched and Protact lives through the night then you can say you called that too.
I completely distrust people that setup up mutli-ways to be right no matter what yet refuse to use the same logic to lynch scum that they have found. It stinks.
If you think BM is scum then vote him don't tell us how lynching likely scum ruins our chances to win. You said so yourself that the town is doing well right now. If BM isn't lieing and we lose a decent player then guess what, we got rid of a anti town player that was dominating the conversation AND the town will still be in a fine postion. Stop making it out into if we lynch BM we risk being in a spot were we have no way to win because that is wrong. With BM lynched, our chances of winning go up. End of story.
##unvote GGQ
##vote KingJames01
I am now voting BM and KJ. I think they are extremely likely to be scum and their flips will tell us a shit ton.
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EPT
