EPTOn August 02 2011 19:35 Lucidity wrote:
redFF, forever RED?
redFF, forever RED?
I certainly hope you have a better reason for this than Drazerk did
TL Mafia XLIII - Page 12
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chaos13
Canada885 Posts
I certainly hope you have a better reason for this than Drazerk did | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On August 02 2011 09:20 chaos13 wrote: DrH has the right idea here. Yes, confirmed townies are excellent. However, mafia can easily fake claim a role like medic or vig, and then we would need to waste our DT checks in order to confirm those claims. Not only that, but we have no idea who the day vig actually is. If it's in the hands of a weaker player, that could lead to complete and utter disaster. Having one player coordinate all the actions of the blues is never a good thing. There is far too much room for error in such a situation, especially since mafia are able to PM and influence the game as well. Ultimately, however, it is up to the individuals with the roles to decide what to do. Discussion about this is very good, but I would rather not waste all day with it. Just something to keep in mind if we're still arguing about it in 24 hours. Vigis, because there are probably a lot of you in here: Do not shoot unless it is at confirmed scum. If you feel you must shoot anyway, take out lurkers and liars. This sort of common sense is all too often ignored, and results in dead town. Even take DT claims with a grain of salt. If analysis points to a player being town when a claimed check has shown red, proceed with caution. It could be a miller or a scum's fake claim in order to waste a vig shot, especially if the claimed DT player has been under suspicion. No one is confirmed scum until they flip. You even go on to say red checks can be millers or the DT fake claiming; vigs should be shooting at people they believe are likely scum. Overall I'm not a huge fan of this post as you joined the anti-sandroba plan wagon quite late, you cover all the angles without really taking a strong position and the part about DTs fake claiming feels a bit forced. | ||
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chaos13
Canada885 Posts
On August 02 2011 21:04 syllogism wrote: No one is confirmed scum until they flip. You even go on to say red checks can be millers or the DT fake claiming; vigs should be shooting at people they believe are likely scum. Overall I'm not a huge fan of this post as you joined the anti-sandroba plan wagon quite late, you cover all the angles without really taking a strong position and the part about DTs fake claiming feels a bit forced. I came in late because that's the first time I had available to post, as I had just got home from work. That will be when I post every day from monday-saturday, not because I lurk. What I said are my thoughts and opinions. I couldn't care less whether you're a fan of that or not, because the only way things get done in this game is by sharing them. I stand behind that post still, as I don't think that sandroba's plan will benefit us. | ||
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OriginalName
Canada1140 Posts
On August 02 2011 15:54 Barundar wrote: ebwodp: Are you against the plan because it is relying on blue roles, or because of the setup? More the latter than the former On August 02 2011 18:01 syllogism wrote: There are likely 5-6 blues in this setup and if the confirmed townie is any good it's quite easy for him to look at the claimed blues and deduce which claims are unlikely due to balance concerns. I would expect at most one to fake claim. There is no way there's more than one day vig, and unless we find a a compelling target today I don't think it's worthwhile to "waste" the shot today just to mass claim today rather than, say, tomorrow when there's more information and likely time if we proceed immediately. We can just go ahead with the mass claim plan once we get a confirmed townie and personally I think that's ideally tomorrow. There is no way in hell there is 5-6 blues when there is only 4 scum players. If there are it is probably similer to maybe a night vigi+half/half Vigi a vet or two and a Dt/Medic. And that even seems like alot, when its a smallish scum team theres no way a quarter of us are going to be power roles especially when vigilantes get two bullets. This is the huge part, our vigilantes are not one shot like they usually are, they are two which gives us 4 night kp if there are two. There is no way we are going to have enough vigilante shots to win without a lynch (although that would be a perfect scenario if we hit all 4 shots.) | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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OriginalName
Canada1140 Posts
On August 02 2011 22:10 syllogism wrote: Why not? There are frequently 7-8 blues with only 6 scum and for instance hatters are worse than in a standard setup. 6 is probably too high though I've stated my reasons, why do you continue on asking me the same question? | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Trotske
410 Posts
On August 02 2011 19:35 Lucidity wrote: Haha, I guess I was still in the Asylum mindset with mass blue everywhere - somehow thought that all 7 blue roles listed would be in the game. ~4 blues make sense and we're very unlikely to have 2 medics in that, so a plan to coordinate them this early isn't actually that great. I think the only time that we should be claiming is if Mafia only have 1 KP left or if a Day Vig hits a Vet, leaving us with 2 confirmed townies. One of them will survive the night and be able to pass on info~ redFF, forever RED? As you will know from this post If a day vig trys to hit someone and they survive we have no way of knowing if they are both scum or a vig / vet . No idea if you weren't reading the posts or just scum trying to slip this idea in to see if anyone would catch it. FoS Lucidity | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
On August 02 2011 16:26 youngminii wrote: fairly certain redff is scum he's playing exactly like that other game where i was scum with him i'm sorry red but your scum play is so obvious On August 02 2011 19:35 Lucidity wrote: Haha, I guess I was still in the Asylum mindset with mass blue everywhere - somehow thought that all 7 blue roles listed would be in the game. ~4 blues make sense and we're very unlikely to have 2 medics in that, so a plan to coordinate them this early isn't actually that great. I think the only time that we should be claiming is if Mafia only have 1 KP left or if a Day Vig hits a Vet, leaving us with 2 confirmed townies. One of them will survive the night and be able to pass on info~ redFF, forever RED? to shitty fos's with absolutely no reasoning. This is funny... | ||
Mig
United States4714 Posts
Initially in IRC he was extremely against sandroba's plan. [14:31] [14:32] [14:32] [14:32] [14:33] However once he posts in the thread his opinion goes from strong to neutral and wishy washy. His posts contributed nothing and were extremely bland/common advice. Along with that he completely misinterprets trotske's post here to cast a very weak Fos on him. On August 02 2011 09:56 Varpulis wrote: Wait wait wait You're promoting the a plan where vigs just shoot without claiming, and kill townies for information. FoS. So basically this game Varp has promised some pro town ideas while not actually contributing anything to the town. Has strong opinions in IRC when people aren't around but is afraid to take a strong stance in the thread. And instead of making a real case against anyone he casts a very weak suspicion on trotske with poor reasoning. ##Vote Varpulis | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
nobody can seriously feel threatened from a pressure vote, so there's no 'pressure' it's just a throwaway vote | ||
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Mig
United States4714 Posts
On August 03 2011 01:41 JeeJee wrote: pressure votes are stupid, where did this trend come from? you know when you say "yeah this is a pressure vote", that's pretty much equivalent to "idk who to vote so i'm voting you, but i'm not actually suspicious of you because all you need to do is say something and i'll remove my vote from you". nobody can seriously feel threatened from a pressure vote, so there's no 'pressure' it's just a throwaway vote JeeJee you are correct on this point but what exactly does pointing it out contribute? You have 2 posts and both of them while correct are bland and useless. You commented on pressure votes and neglected to comment on whether you actually thought varp was scummy or not. Who do you think is scum? What do you think about the 2 leading candidates varp/red? | ||
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On August 03 2011 02:09 Mig wrote: JeeJee you are correct on this point but what exactly does pointing it out contribute? You have 2 posts and both of them while correct are bland and useless. You commented on pressure votes and neglected to comment on whether you actually thought varp was scummy or not. Who do you think is scum? What do you think about the 2 leading candidates varp/red? I'm fairly sure that i'm not scum, unless I have a serious problem with reading pms. RedFF I'm not so sure on. I'm leaning scum because he started off his "no plan" campaign without evidence or an argument, and then just picked up DrH's and copied it, it seems. That said, I don't disagree with DrH. Our confirmed townie will be dead night 1, and we'll be back to square one, possibly with 2 dead townies. Again, the plan is really good, but only if we wait for mafia to not have enough kp to override the medic protect we will most likely be able to slap on the confirmed townie. To address Mig's accusation: In irc sandroba didn't explain his plan entirely. I read it as "double lynch day 1" period. That in itself is very bad. The good part of the plan is the confirmed townie. When he posted and explained that point, It sounded good. Then I realized that mafia can double stack and just kill the confirmed townie, it sounded bad again, until i figured out a solution. Is there a real reason that we need to use the plan right now? With patience, it will work better, i guarantee. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On August 03 2011 02:09 Mig wrote: JeeJee you are correct on this point but what exactly does pointing it out contribute? You have 2 posts and both of them while correct are bland and useless. You commented on pressure votes and neglected to comment on whether you actually thought varp was scummy or not. Who do you think is scum? What do you think about the 2 leading candidates varp/red? it points out the fact that sandro's vote isn't a real vote. apparently not everybody realizes that pressure votes are a joke. i think both of those candidates are a stupid idea. red is being ragged on due to him opposing a tempting plan, but not one without faults. his concerns are legitimate. claiming over-defensiveness as a scum-tell is something i particularly dislike, having been lynched for it multiple times as a townie. further, the people pushing him are useless people like minii who just jump on the hate with zero reasoning whatsoever. the extent of minii's posts are as follows: On August 02 2011 16:26 youngminii wrote: fairly certain redff is scum he's playing exactly like that other game where i was scum with him i'm sorry red but your scum play is so obvious Fin. varp is being ragged on due to wishy-washness. i just re-read his posts, and the tldr progression is as follows -vigi dont shoot on hunches -be active -no problems re dayvig plan -realizes its better to delay or outright not do the plan due to stacked hits -random fos on trotske i see re-evaluation there, not wishy-washiness. do you see otherwise? random fos are just as useless as pressure votes. sandro and varp are both bad in that department as far as i'm concerned. by itself though, it doesn't mean much, and there's nothing else yet. as for me, i don't have scum leanings on anyone. town leans yes, scum leans no. | ||
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Mig
United States4714 Posts
If you had to vote for someone right now who would it be for and why? Do you find anyone besides red scummy? | ||
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Sevryn
698 Posts
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Sevryn
698 Posts
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Mig
United States4714 Posts
So even with all your experience JeeJee you can't find anyone who stands out as scummy so far? Really? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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