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@Ace We're approaching the deadline, who do you have in mind for lynch today? Right now it looks like VisceraEyes and MrZentor are the two front runners, do you have any preference among these? (last question was just a suggestion, just talk about whatever scum read you have)
Also, it was arguably Radfield who got the mason discussion going when he asked you what you thought about masons. What did you gain from that discussion other than potentially helping a couple of masons?
On April 23 2012 22:24 Ace wrote:[...] Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 21:34 prplhz wrote:Hey guys this is a mini where Ace actually does something on day1 (and he actually succeeds pretty well with it, catching a scum). Just so you know he's not always this non-committal with his reads on day1. True. But the amount of content in that game and the obvious nature of the Palmar's scummy behavior that game led to me calling him out. You can also go back and find games where I've just relaxed the first few days giving no Scum reads and showing up later to get the party started. Posting 1 game out of the many I've played as some sort of proof is just ridiculously stupid don't you think? I feel like your trying to force something that isn't there.
Force what? I literally say that "[you're] not always this non-committal with [your] reads on day1" and then I post a game where you are not this non-committal with your reads on day1 to proof it. The only thing I am trying to force is some reads from you. I'm perfectly aware that I can find games where you are this non-committal day1 (like, the recent Space Station in which we just both played) so I'm not saying "he's never this non-committal day1". I'm in no way misrepresenting anything here, if anybody is forcing anything it's you forcing the notion that I'm trying to force something (yea!).
@marvellosity It's ludicrous to suggest that MrZentor was in any way close to this level of aggressiveness in Space Station. I think when townies change their play so drastically they almost always have a clear thought process behind it and I'd like to hear what MrZentor's is, but I don't expect to be impressed.
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On April 23 2012 21:10 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 21:08 Forumite wrote:On April 23 2012 20:05 marvellosity wrote:
I don't think Zentor is scum atm. Instead of looking at his scum game, look at Space Station where he was town. He managed to be at the top of numerous people's suspicious list although he was town (and performing very townie actions in PM-land). Zentor can´t be scum, because he´s a good Town player? What if he´s a bad scumplayer too? He hasn´t done that many suspicious things lately, fine, I don´t have much else to complain about, but I can´t agree with those who defend him by essentially saying " only a bad player would make a stupid mistake like that". Whatever, noone cares about Zentor. No, you misunderstand me a little I think. I was saying in Space Station he played suspiciously/scummy on thread and he was town there. Similar could appply here.
If you want to go meta: In Space Station Mafia Town-Zentor got attacked because several people misinterpreted a post of him. Although some people showed a nice lack of reading comprehension, he explained more than once how he meant and always stayed calm. Compare this to his rude style this game, and there is quite the difference.
MrZentor: You accused prplhz two times, how do you feel about him now? You're vote is still on you, why did you not change your vote to him? Or is there someone else you think is scummy?
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On April 23 2012 21:20 strongandbig wrote:
Kenpachi method? Apparently it's foolproof!
....... Its not the Kenpachi method if said person doesn't do this literally EVERY game. I believe this because VE does this very rarely. Also, heads up, USELESS! POST!
I think that Radfield or prp is scum.
Radfield for withholding his reason, and sheeping Toad's case on VE, he stated that he 'wanted' to vote VE, but he just said in my languange "yo dude i TOTALLY agree with you, ill just vote him as well cuz I also said that VE was who I was going to vote"
prp because he persists on saying VE is scum for one reason below.
On April 23 2012 21:07 prplhz wrote:
It's not an exaggeration, it's misrepresentation. I never said anything that could remotely be interpreted as "HURR DURR" and of course I object to that rendition.
Your VisceraEyes analysis is extremely naïve. VisceraEyes has played like 30 games (at least!) and he's seen people claim town many times before, don't you think he has both the stomach and the brain to concoct and accomplish a plan as devious as claiming town when he's actually not? How do you feel about him hiding it in a spoiler then, since you're saying that he is displaying a lack of fear typical for a townie? Has Kenpachi never been scum?
.... "yo dude VE is TOTALLY SCUM for ONLY claiming town." I don't like that, your arguing that VE is scum ONLY because of him claiming town, If you REALLY want to convince me that VE is scum, by any means PLEASE use other reasons for why he is scum, he may as well be unavailable as well.
Here, I argue this again, Would ANY Scum (that is not Kenpachi, try for example BloodyC0bbler or L) put himself up in the spotlight?
I want to believe your town, but your persistence in this topic is making me seriously doubt this.
So, I have two suspicions, I will vote Radfield as he sheeped, and is being different to his meta.
##Vote: Radfield
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I actually don't like the VE lynch much. I have no clue what his alignment is so far. I'm more suspicious of forumite and would like people to filter him and share their thoughts. The basis of my suspicion is that he was focusing on proving that Zentor is not necessarily town and voting for him, instead of giving reasons why the dude is scum. Needless to say that is fucked up and can be said about anyone. I also think its likely that some scum would have called him out or threw suspicion his way were him town, but no one even mentioned him so far.
-sandroba
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On April 23 2012 22:58 Bluelightz wrote:[...] prp because he persists on saying VE is scum for one reason below.
Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 21:07 prplhz wrote:
It's not an exaggeration, it's misrepresentation. I never said anything that could remotely be interpreted as "HURR DURR" and of course I object to that rendition.
Your VisceraEyes analysis is extremely naïve. VisceraEyes has played like 30 games (at least!) and he's seen people claim town many times before, don't you think he has both the stomach and the brain to concoct and accomplish a plan as devious as claiming town when he's actually not? How do you feel about him hiding it in a spoiler then, since you're saying that he is displaying a lack of fear typical for a townie? Has Kenpachi never been scum? .... "yo dude VE is TOTALLY SCUM for ONLY claiming town." I don't like that, your arguing that VE is scum ONLY because of him claiming town, If you REALLY want to convince me that VE is scum, by any means PLEASE use other reasons for why he is scum, he may as well be unavailable as well. Here, I argue this again, Would ANY Scum (that is not Kenpachi, try for example BloodyC0bbler or L) put himself up in the spotlight? I want to believe your town, but your persistence in this topic is making me seriously doubt this. [...]
Please be so kind as to show me the post in which I say that VisceraEyes is scum. Especially the one where I say that he is scum because he said that he was "town".
I'm attacking your argument that he is town because he said that he was town because I think it's a bad argument for saying ANYTHING about his alignment. Just because I'm attacking your argument for him being town doesn't mean that I think that he's scum. I am suspicious of him, but for other reasons.
Also, Radfield always likes to keep his cards close to him until the last possible moment as town. That's just how he plays, I have no idea why you (and partially also phagga?) think that this means that he is scummy or that it is against his meta. If he says you'll have an explanation then you'll likely have that explanation, just wait and judge him by that.
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@prpl so if you don't think ve is scum and don't wanna lynch him, what the fuck is the point in attacking BL's argument? What exactly does that accomplish for town?
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On April 23 2012 23:17 SamuelLJackson wrote:
@prpl so if you don't think ve is scum and don't wanna lynch him, what the fuck is the point in attacking BL's argument? What exactly does that accomplish for town?
When exactly did I say that I don't want to lynch VisceraEyes?
I don't think it's ideal when people are using bad arguments, especially not to show why suspicious people are town. Duh.
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On April 23 2012 07:16 SamuelLJackson wrote:
##vote VisceraEyes
--- Toad
On April 23 2012 23:03 SamuelLJackson wrote:
I actually don't like the VE lynch much.
-sandroba
I lol'ed
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"Just because I'm attacking your argument for him being town doesn't mean that I think that he's scum. I am suspicious of him, but for other reasons."
Reasons other than him possibly being scum? And you want to lynch him for those reasons?
How about you stop telling me what you are not saying and actually tell me wtf you ARE saying.
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SamuelLJackson, please sign your posts. I know it´s irritating, but you have to do it.
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I won´t be able to post until about an hour before the deadline. I´m against a prplhz lynch. My vote stays on MrZentor for now, even though I know there´s little hope of getting that scum lynched today.
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On April 23 2012 23:56 SamuelLJackson wrote:
"Just because I'm attacking your argument for him being town doesn't mean that I think that he's scum. I am suspicious of him, but for other reasons."
Reasons other than him possibly being scum? And you want to lynch him for those reasons?
How about you stop telling me what you are not saying and actually tell me wtf you ARE saying.
"being scum" is a pretty good reason for lynching people but I don't know if anybody is scum.
I think that his defense of MrZentor was really weird and he's no where near as active as I'd like him to be. I don't want to lynch him as much as I want to lynch MrZentor right now but I think that a lot of people still need to speak up before I can make my mind up. MrZentor is the best thing right now in my opinion but I don't think it's bulletproof at all.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I'm not going to have time to post now, and likely won't be around until an hour or two before the deadline. Don't expect much from me in the way of leading a lynch.
As far as VE goes, he still has not commented since I put my vote down. My intention was simply to apply pressure and see how he reacted, but he has not posted/reacted at all. At this point I'm willing to keep my vote there.
I don't think zentor is scum.
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Hey guys I'm back!
HOLY VE WAGON! Votes off plx!
I'm reading the thread now, but if anyone has any questions feel free to ask whilst I catch up.
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On April 23 2012 22:58 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 21:20 strongandbig wrote:
Kenpachi method? Apparently it's foolproof! ....... Its not the Kenpachi method if said person doesn't do this literally EVERY game. I believe this because VE does this very rarely. Also, heads up, USELESS! POST!
Not true. I was caught by BC using the Kenpachi method in SS mafia.
I'm starting to really wonder what's up with VE, it seems very out of character for it to take him this long to respond to this set of accusations, whether he's town or scum. I actually feel like we should not lynch him for lurking, but we maybe should wait and see what his explanation is. He has to post his vote sometime in the next six hours or risk a modkill anyway.
Since we appear to be seriously considering lynching Zentor, let me put in my two cents on him as well.
His play this game doesn't look exactly like his play in his previous games as either scum or town, but it looks much closer to his town play (he started SS mafia with a bunch of retarded trolling as well) than to his scum play (where he seems to have been much more lurkey).
He's either making a deliberate decision to change his scum play, or he's still town and was trolling retardedly. I'm not sure which, but I'm leaning towards the latter.
When it comes to actual suspects, I'd like to point to Snarfs. He's done a few things so far that make me suspicious.
First, we have
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 09:12 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:53 Sbrubbles wrote:
That said, I suppose it might be a good strategy to claim if the masons are two relatively new players (like myself), in that it would draw fire away from more veteran town players.
If the masons do decide to claim, though, I don't think we should waste town powers confirming them. I'd be happy with believing them and only doubt them if they start acting specially scummy or aren't dead by day 4. Cops are here to investigate scummy players, not to confirm townies. I agree with all this also. That said, I agree with the hydra in that it's time to stop talking about the masons and to start hunting scum.
In this post, he says that we should be hunting scum, but in none of his later posts does he actually do any scum hunting. Looks like trying to gain town cred for getting us focused when he's actually not adding anything to the discussion. Also note that this comment at this point was not really trying to change the arc of the thread; at the point he made it we were already moving on from the masons discussion.
The two posts we have from him after that are the following:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 09:21 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 09:12 Snarfs wrote:
I agree with all this also. That said, I agree with the hydra in that it's time to stop talking about the masons and to start hunting scum. Speaking of which, I'd like to hear some from Ace, whose posts have almost entirely been about Masons at this point. Ace, what do you think of VE has a lynch candidate? If you had to pick a second candidate, who would it be? I think it would be valuable to have two candidates to consider going into the last 18 or so hours before the lynch.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 15:31 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 12:39 Sbrubbles wrote:
Radfield, you are the one looking the most suspicious to me right now. On the Zentor/prplhz exchange, you defend Zentor, but agree with Forumite on Zentor's case on prplhz being weak:
... These are excellent points, sbrubbles. Thank you for pointing them out, my suspicion of Radfield has also risen because of this and I look forward to his response.
Neither of these actually lays out an opinion on who is playing scummy and who we should actually vote for. Again more behaving like he's moving discussion along without actually contributing. Especially with his "suspiciousness of radfield" post, this looks a lot like trying to bandwagon onto a case without actually contributing anything to said case.
Finally, here's his first major post (and the only post in which he actually expresses opinions):
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 03:11 Snarfs wrote:
Couple of things to comment on in the beginning.
First of all, strongandbig's posts are big and mostly useless. Specifically, this encrypted message stuff that takes up a large portion of his posts. Anyone can hide something in their post, we don't need you padding your filter and clogging the thread with that sort of stuff. Last time you started a game like that (SS Mafia) you were scum. Are you scum this game too?
MrZentor, you're abrasiveness and dismissal of people's questions, while not necessarily (or likely) mafia behaviour doesn't really help the town. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would appreciate a more respectful player than the one who needs to call everyone "illiterate, boring, dull, stupid, or thick" just to make a point. I'd say it actually lessens the strength of your cases when you resort to ad hominem attacks.
As for the other things that have been talked about:
-Hydra should sign their posts
-Masons should claim if they feel like it will benefit town
-Town reads are not necessarily only negative (though admittedly they are not as important as scum reads)
Let's look at both of the points he makes here.
First, his response to my mason encryption plan is nonsensical. It's a plan that would, I admit, only help town in maybe 1% of situations, but could literally not possibly hurt the town. It died, I believe, mostly because Ace was dismissive and seems to be leading the whole "mason theory" discussion; that's not actually out of character to me, Ace seems pretty dismissive in general of plans that aren't his. However, the first few reactions to the plan are still interesting. Snarfs's seems like what I would expect from a scum reaction to a complex or convoluted townie plan; dismissal without actually engaging the details, as well as accusations being thrown around.
Additionally, if you look at my post, the real filler wasn't the encrypted message stuff; it was me trying to work through the scenarios that could come out of a mason claim. I was responding to the question Ace asked, when he asked for reactions to his mason plan.
Now, look at his arguments on MrZentor. Note that he calls him out for being weird and not townie without actually accusing him of being scum or anti-town. He doesn't take a position on whether or not Zentor is scum or town at all, just saying he could be anti-town.
Then there's the little comment blurb. None of the things he says there are actually meaningful, but seem like they might be an attempt to jump in on a discussion that already happened without actually adding anything new to the topic.
Snarfs, J'Accuse!
##vote: Snarfs
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Ebwop: VE somehow ninja'd me despite being afk for like a week.
Oh well. Waiting to see what he posts and if that changes my opinion.
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Prpl and Forumite you guys are acting weird as shit. If you are masons claim right now, cuz I'm sure if you are not mafia, mafia noticed this already.
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I'm not a mason, don't know about Forumite though.
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@radfield If I remember correctly you had some theory about how scum players usually enter the thread. Didn't it produce any good reads so far? Also is VE really your best bet for scum at this point?
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EPT
