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Sylencia
Australia1057 Posts
As for misdirection, from last game there were a few ways to do it. Finding a flaw in someone's argument and jumping on it, or by bringing up stuff in the last minute and trying to get people to bandwagon. Personally, I hated the last minute votes, so if possible can we please have everyone come forward with reads when you find them? Leaving to an hour left is pretty ridiculous considering how not everyone would be there to defend or to change their vote (assuming the info is good) | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On January 03 2013 11:08 Spaghetticus wrote: My position is the opposite of Omni's. Lying is justifiable but lurking is not. Death to he who lurks! Interesting. I assume this aligns with your previous thoughts from Newbie Mafia XXXIII.. On December 19 2012 11:00 Spaghetticus wrote: For lying I am the same. In the one game I've played I lied to hide that I was a cop. If you lie this draws massive attention, but it's important to look for motive, intention, and possible outcomes as well. @Spaghetticus You believe lying as a blue power role is acceptable. I will not choose to debate this, it is your opinion. What I would like you to expand upon is the following: Obviously it is in the nature of mafia to lie. If you ask a mafia player.."Are you mafia", we can not expect them to reasonably answer "yes". Thus, if both YOU and the mafioso have an inclination to lie (as indicated above); How am I, or the remaining town players meant to reasonably differentiate you from the scum that surrounds town? | ||
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Sylencia
Australia1057 Posts
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Sylencia
Australia1057 Posts
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
These players all just played in the same game:- - Corazon - Mocsta - Omni - Spag - Sylencia Of which:- This is Corazon's second game, he has only got experience playing scum, which he did very well for the most part. This is Sylencia's third game. He played town last game fairly well, but was hindered by life commitments for the time I remained in the game. This is Omni's second game. Last game he played very aggressive as town. This is Mocsta's second(?) game. He played as enthusiastic pro-town, and was NKed for his positive contributions. This is my third game. First game I played standard town as cop. Second game I played as VT and was a little(lot!) too passive. I was lynched day one for not scumhunting, and in doing so saved their MVP scum player. I think I might dally with standard play once more to get my confidence back up :D My filters for all my games are: Spag's XXV filter and Spag's XXXIII filter @the following Jamp Zare Strix TeMiL Could you please give us a little information on your experience of TLmafia so far (including role and playstyle), and whether you have played outside of TL before. For those that are new, please at the very least skim through one or two of the guides provided, talk to the appropriate coach if you feel the need (you should), and inform us of any RL transgressions against the sanctity of TLMafia in advance of them actually occurring. DO NOT LURK. IDGAF WHO PLAYS SCUMMY I WILL BE VOTING THE LURKIEST PLAYER DAY ONE PERIOD. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
I would rather no-lynch on the first night than lynch lurkers, personally. I would think that first day lurkers in a newbie mafia game are more likely than not to be bored townies, especially considering the slow-roll start to this mafia game. I think that engaging in a Lynch Lurkers policy assumes that our town environment will be poor, and I'd rather simply create an environment without lurkers. I don't know how I feel about Mocsta's summary plan. I think people should be smart enough to realize who's contributing and who's not on their own, and a summary like that every twelve hours gives the impression of contributing without actually doing it. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
Does that sound right for Tasmania Mocsta? You were the one from the mainland weren't you? my memory is terrible. Regardless, my sleep pattern is all mangled, I'm currently on my 26th sleepless hour. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
I have the feeling Mocsta's contribution shall be substantial regardless (an educated guess). How much experience do you have? @Mocsta You are supposed to differentiate between lying scum and lying town by attributing motive to action. If I lie and don't have any plausible town explanation, I am scum (or terrible town). If I lie and only have possible town motives, I'm town (or intricately clever scum). If I lie and have both town and scum explanations for my behaviour, you need to infer the likelihood of the possibilities and arrive at your own understanding. This third option is not a null read in most instances, as town should strive to keep things simple (an thus not lie) unless they see a very good reason not to. Town should not lie without town motive, and part of that motive is not having their lie detected and blown out of proportion by hungry town and scum alike. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
I've only played one other game online, and it's that filter. I was an active mafia, possibly too active and then a little too defensive when attention was called upon me. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
I've bumped up my lurker response to Code: Lynch. I was all about being flexible with interpretation before, but not any more (at least not for lurkers). My approach to lurkers is fresh for me, so you will not find it in my filter. My policy on liars remains the same. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On January 03 2013 11:44 zarepath wrote: That is your prerogative, and I will not hold the "no-lynch" against you yet; due to your rational regarding town environment - I happen to agree.I would rather no-lynch on the first night than lynch lurkers, personally. I would think that first day lurkers in a newbie mafia game are more likely than not to be bored townies, especially considering the slow-roll start to this mafia game. I think that engaging in a Lynch Lurkers policy assumes that our town environment will be poor, and I'd rather simply create an environment without lurkers. I don't know how I feel about Mocsta's summary plan. I think people should be smart enough to realize who's contributing and who's not on their own, and a summary like that every twelve hours gives the impression of contributing without actually doing it. Very fair point. I was hoping someone would pick this up. I agree, summary posts like can be construed as "mock/scum" contributions [on the proviso, it is the only contribution] However, that is not the intent of the summary post. I agree whole-heartedly, that a lurker does not immediately suggest scum play. I also agree that it may indicate a bored townie. In fact, I am also in general alignment with your thoughts on town environment. I want to help facilitate a town atmosphere where: - we DO NOT just target (read: bandwagon) outspoken individuals - who typically will be townies. Rather, - we enable the identification of people are flying under the radar and question them. [In addition to ongoing scum hunting] I think this is a valid tool that can be used to re-enforce scum hunting. Thus,the summary post is a mechanism that *in theory should* enable us to identify suspicious person(s) to question further. The corollary is that it may also help identify people whose attitudes are town motivated. Ultimately, I plan to be an active participant in the town environment; I expect my actions to speak louder than words. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On January 03 2013 12:17 Spaghetticus wrote: I agree with the utility of a summary post for town. If his contribution is all fluff we will know, and a running list is useful to keep a more holistic perspective on mafia happenings. Do you think it's something that only a townie would do? While we can certainly give Mocsta credit for keeping tabs on everyone, I wouldn't call it a town oriented move. I welcome it, but it would be a null point on my opinion of you Mocsta. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
Confirming oneself as town is not the only objective of town players, thus Mocsta should continue regardless of whether it confirms him as town or not. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On January 03 2013 12:34 cDgCorazon wrote: Do you think it's something that only a townie would do? While we can certainly give Mocsta credit for keeping tabs on everyone, I wouldn't call it a town oriented move. I welcome it, but it would be a null point on my opinion of you Mocsta. @Corazon I guess you didn't read my wall text... let me requote it for you. On January 03 2013 12:11 Mocsta wrote: Ultimately, I plan to be an active participant in the town environment; I expect my actions to speak louder than words. Anyways, I don't want to waste further conversation on this. My point was to highlight I plan to create these summary posts, not to ask for approval. If there is constructive criticism of them after the first couple, I will open ears to discussion; however, for the time-being, I am going to implement what is in my head - and see if it works. Furthering matters, cDgCorazon, your a person who has a history for succumbing under pressure. So I am voting for you for 2 reasons. (1) I don't like your response. On January 03 2013 10:36 cDgCorazon wrote: 2) How would the mafia try to get us to mislynch a townie? I'll save this answer for after more people have discussed it. Why do you need to wait? What is the town motive behind this? (2) You have started the discussion, but it has largely been useless so far [  Bet you recognise this one, sorry for the in-joke]As for the way discussion REALLYstarts... someone throws down a vote. ##Vote: cDgCorazon You have proven (in the past game) that you can actively provide new approaches to old ideas. However, so far your posts have been a boring regurgitation of old content (of which you don't even fully address). | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On January 03 2013 12:50 Mocsta wrote: (1) I don't like your response. Why do you need to wait? What is the town motive behind this? I was waiting to say a point that I had already answered in XXXIII. Something that you actually agreed with. Remember, if the mafia have to accuse someone who is town of being scum, the townie has to make a ridiculous error, or their case has to be a very good lie in order to sway the town to vote for them. So they would need to have a logical post, but it would also need to turn a lie into a really strong argument. They need to convince the town that this person is scum, but they cannot go too far, for fear they are trying to push a lynch and get a townie voted. I was going to wait to see if you guys remembered, and to give the new players a chance to think about the question instead of force-feeding them knowledge, which is the same approach you took here: On January 03 2013 12:11 Mocsta wrote: That is your prerogative, and I will not hold the "no-lynch" against you yet; due to your rational regarding town environment - I happen to agree. I'm not coming out and saying that you are mafia, I was just saying that you would have to do more over the course of the game than just make a list of posters. However, your early pressure is not characteristic of scum, so this does give off a town read to me. I will give you that. Although there's no need to be firing a warning shot so early when only a handful of people are posting (or even know that the game is started.) | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
Do scum get access to their private thread immediately or do they have a period of non-communication. I have seen a scum chat before but this detail eludes me. Are scum able to communicate right now? | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
I wouldn't be so certain about your read on Mocsta. This is exactly the way you would expect him to act if he rolled scum. He has a meta to conform to regardless of alignment. I have a near null read on him. | ||
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TeMiL
Peru545 Posts
pd: im going to learn a lot of english :D | ||
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