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Apologies if this has been brought up before.
I really enjoyed Idra's stream today, especially the Q&A part. It's actually pretty amazing how anyone can ask questions of a top-level pro and actually get answered... really cool interaction with the fans.
I felt he answered a lot of the questions fairly and respectfully. He didn't sound like he was trolling, so I'm going to assume he wasn't.
So it confused me a bit when he said he wasn't having fun playing Starcraft 2. He brought up comparisons with Brood War, saying that in BW you weren't as vulnerable to all-ins because it was easier to defend (and I can sort of see that seeing top-level BW games where people make lots of sunken colonies and lurkers). He made it seem like SC2 was more volatile, easier to win by just making a random build order guess and winning that way, whereas in BW it wouldn't really matter if you had a better build if you were playing someone much more skilled than you.
It made me think a bit. He's not the only one who has said this--Jinro said something very similar. I don't want to turn this into a BW vs SC2 flamewar, because I enjoy watching both. I'm just wondering about Idra saying he wasn't having fun playing SC2. Could he really not be having fun? He's at the top level, at the highest tier of a game that is exploding internationally. How could that not be fun?
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On May 06 2011 13:12 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 10:19 stevarius wrote:On May 06 2011 10:09 BombaySensei wrote:On May 06 2011 10:04 stevarius wrote:On May 06 2011 10:03 BombaySensei wrote:On May 06 2011 09:36 Parabol732 wrote:And to think it all started with a  well, ok, but that's not what it started with  Then what did it start with? A colossus/void ray death ball? A 6 gate? I must know! "I'm approaching the match as if it were a walkover... he's going to 4 gate all-in both games unless he decides to be clever and make voidrays or DTs." http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=204838IMO Rofl. Now it all comes back to mind. It's been a while, but now I remember.... my butt is still hurt over that series.  But.... Idra plays better than he did that series now. Prior to that incident there was the EG vs ONE teamwar in SGL, where Idra wasnt allowed to play (organization error, but ONE could've allowed it) and the ONE leader (on page2) said "But with the disrespect IdrA has shown my team in the last few days and the comments he has made, I have no reason to do him any favors." Cruncher was a sub for ONE (I think he was a ONE member, dont know) and he played (and ONE beat EG). Prior to that (and I think there are some references in that SGL thread) Idra called Cruncher bad (maybe more). I think it was during JP and Friends featuring EG.IdrA but I havent watched that just speculation since during the 1st youtube vid Cruncher is playing. If there was something earlier - I dont know.
JP and Friends - IdrA vs CrunCher
Here it is. Hopefully now this story can be put to rest since we have "the beginning" out in the open.
+ Forgot to mention, just skip to 1:15.
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On May 06 2011 13:20 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
So it confused me a bit when he said he wasn't having fun playing Starcraft 2. He brought up comparisons with Brood War, saying that in BW you weren't as vulnerable to all-ins because it was easier to defend (and I can sort of see that seeing top-level BW games where people make lots of sunken colonies and lurkers). He made it seem like SC2 was more volatile, easier to win by just making a random build order guess and winning that way, whereas in BW it wouldn't really matter if you had a better build if you were playing someone much more skilled than you.
It made me think a bit. He's not the only one who has said this--Jinro said something very similar. I don't want to turn this into a BW vs SC2 flamewar, because I enjoy watching both. I'm just wondering about Idra saying he wasn't having fun playing SC2. Could he really not be having fun? He's at the top level, at the highest tier of a game that is exploding internationally. How could that not be fun?
It's his career, it doesn't have to be fun.
but yeah, I have heard of other pros sharing the same opinion
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On May 06 2011 08:12 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 08:09 Kantutan wrote:
idrajit Greg Fields
wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you
7 minutes ago
Everyone loses D: Except CrunCher who has just lost Idra 15.7k Viewers and as result has gained himself any of the potential 15.7k who decide to watch his stream.
I really doubt cruncher gained himself any fans at all with this whole ordeal. Speaking for myself, I'm rather angry at him actually. I know im most likely just projecting my anger, but I can't help it. I think all this whole thing did was make everyone disappointed.
Unfortunately I don't think this ban will change how idra acts at all. Fortunately, it's his attitude and personality that make him so fun and interesting to be a fan of. Just hope he decides to commentate games more when he gets unbanned or figure out someway to not let getting banned from TL affect him so much.
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I think there is overwhelming evidence Cruncher stream cheats, I don't agree with TL stance of saying Cruncher is innocent and I think stream cheat should be on the same level of the ladder cheats that got i.e. Dimaga banned from TSL, but whatever.
I can understand Idra's ban, although I wouldn't have banned him for it were I a mod (glad I ain't one).
And I don't think Idra is trying to hurt TL.net or it's staff. If he wanted that he would simply go to another site (like wellplayed.org) and leave TL behind. Much of his fans would follow. Even though I don't think it would be a significant hit to either TL or Idra's viewer/fan count it would be the thing to do if you're really mad.
This is largely irrelevant, though, and I am really bummed out to lose 2 days of Idra's stream. His own fault, I guess, since he knows TL too well to post those kind of things.
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On May 06 2011 13:36 Jotoco wrote:
I think there is overwhelming evidence Cruncher stream cheats Prove it then. So far I've only seen proof of the opposite from the people who was watching his stream, which had Idra's stream muted.
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The only thing I don't understand is the whole treading water approach TL seems to have with Idra. Guy has been banned countless times, they know he is going to continue to say incendiary stuff. If you know he is going to act like that either let him act like it or perma-ban him. Banning him for saying inflammatory stuff some of the time but the rest of the time letting those things slide doesn't accomplish anything. I think it is safe to say at this point Idra is not going to change (I'm not saying that is a bad thing just the reality).
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On May 06 2011 13:39 Duravi wrote:
The only thing I don't understand is the whole treading water approach TL seems to have with Idra. Guy has been banned countless times, they know he is going to continue to say incendiary stuff. If you know he is going to act like that either let him act like it or perma-ban him. Banning him for saying inflammatory stuff some of the time but the rest of the time letting those things slide doesn't accomplish anything.
asked this before, jibba simply replied because he contributes and has been here a while, get on his level and you can do the same apparently. sorry.
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On May 06 2011 13:39 VIB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:36 Jotoco wrote:
I think there is overwhelming evidence Cruncher stream cheats Prove it then. So far I've only seen proof of the opposite from the people who was watching his stream, which had Idra's stream muted.
Sorry, have you watched the game?
And proof =/= Overwhelming evidence, I don't know if you understand proper English, since you're a non-native speaker it seems.
Even if there was no SS, and he never entered Idra's stream under his own account that alone would be overwhelming evidence of:
1 - Stream Cheating;
2 - Map hack.
Pick your poison.
That is overwhelming evidence, no need to sugarcoat things. It is no proof, but still, no sane person would do that build blindly.
But whatever, I don't even know why I am answering this, risking a ban to cater to some troll
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On May 06 2011 12:45 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 12:40 absalom86 wrote:On May 06 2011 09:02 arQ wrote:On May 06 2011 08:31 jakekosberg wrote:
This shouldn't be a big deal, but the bias moderation on this forum is a joke.
User was banned for this post. Is this 1984? What is going on? You cant express an opinion about the moderators of TL? I dont care much about fanboism, Idra, or Cruncher, but do not treat people like this for stating their opinion. That is ridiculous. Does the owners of TL.net think that this kind of moderating is a good thing? I doubt it considering the fact that it turns people off from the main SC2 hub in the west. Edit: And now it says i cant talk about that either. Are you defending someones right to call another person a waste of life on here ? TL admins hold the forum to a high standard of no insults and so on and a star player like IdrA does not get special treatment in that regard. Test calling someone a waste of life and a cheater on here and you'll be permanently banned, IdrA is IdrA so he only gets a 2 day ban and should be happy about that. Look at some of these posts http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141572
I saw those posts of Rekrul notoriety since you linked them. I wasn't around and don't know much about Rekrul, but I found his posts to be completely un-entertaining. What context am I missing that people back then could use such abusive language and it's okay? I actually feel bad for Idra now, even if he has brought most of his notoriety on himself.
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asked this before, jibba simply replied because he contributes and has been here a while, get on his level and you can do the same apparently. sorry.
So why not just say since he has contributed greatly to the community he can say whatever he wants here? There is nothing wrong with that, TL is after all not a democracy nor should it be. If anything the way things work now is unfair to the mods.
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Go check out Idra's twitter. He has instructions for you all.
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On May 06 2011 13:02 SlapMySalami wrote:
wat suggests idra is doing anything more than for personal reasons
did you miss the Q&A session today where he ran a commercial after every 10 questions on his stream
He makes money off of streaming.
On May 06 2011 13:02 SlapMySalami wrote:
and the 300$/hr charge for his coaching
His time is valuable and he's without a doubt the best foreign Zerg.
On May 06 2011 13:02 SlapMySalami wrote:
and the 0 idra replay packs at least to my knowledge
By releasing your replays, you allow people to heavily analyze every aspect of your play. Why would he shoot himself in the foot by giving out that sort of information?
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On May 06 2011 13:20 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
Apologies if this has been brought up before.
I really enjoyed Idra's stream today, especially the Q&A part. It's actually pretty amazing how anyone can ask questions of a top-level pro and actually get answered... really cool interaction with the fans.
I felt he answered a lot of the questions fairly and respectfully. He didn't sound like he was trolling, so I'm going to assume he wasn't.
So it confused me a bit when he said he wasn't having fun playing Starcraft 2. He brought up comparisons with Brood War, saying that in BW you weren't as vulnerable to all-ins because it was easier to defend (and I can sort of see that seeing top-level BW games where people make lots of sunken colonies and lurkers). He made it seem like SC2 was more volatile, easier to win by just making a random build order guess and winning that way, whereas in BW it wouldn't really matter if you had a better build if you were playing someone much more skilled than you.
It made me think a bit. He's not the only one who has said this--Jinro said something very similar. I don't want to turn this into a BW vs SC2 flamewar, because I enjoy watching both. I'm just wondering about Idra saying he wasn't having fun playing SC2. Could he really not be having fun? He's at the top level, at the highest tier of a game that is exploding internationally. How could that not be fun?
I would say Brood War is more fun for progamers to play because it's a game where your hard work and mechanics are guaranteed to pay off. SC2 is too volatile right now so inferior players can win with plenty of different gimmicky builds. I really wish SC2 required more mechanics, it's essential as an E-sport. I realize the skill cap hasn't been reached yet but when it finally is, I doubt their play will be more impressive to watch than a BW pro.
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On May 06 2011 14:04 holycrapitsTony wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:02 SlapMySalami wrote:
wat suggests idra is doing anything more than for personal reasons
did you miss the Q&A session today where he ran a commercial after every 10 questions on his stream He makes money off of streaming. Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:02 SlapMySalami wrote:
and the 300$/hr charge for his coaching His time is valuable and he's without a doubt the best foreign Zerg. Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:02 SlapMySalami wrote:
and the 0 idra replay packs at least to my knowledge By releasing your replays, you allow people to heavily analyze every aspect of your play. Why would he shoot himself in the foot by giving out that sort of information?
the reason he doesn't post replay packs is because he feels it's "tooting your horn" or "bragging"
if you're at his level, you don't give a shit about what people think about how you're gonna play, zergs build order possibilities have been flushed out already, and the only possibilities left are late-game options based on unit comp.
he's streaming now because
#1 he's in US and not training for GSL
#2 he's bored
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On May 06 2011 14:22 Asparagus wrote:
the reason he doesn't post replay packs is because he feels it's "tooting your horn" or "bragging"
if you're at his level, you don't give a shit about what people think about how you're gonna play, zergs build order possibilities have been flushed out already, and the only possibilities left are late-game options based on unit comp.
he's streaming now because
#1 he's in US and not training for GSL
#2 he's bored
He already said he does it for the money.
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On May 06 2011 14:27 Swineflew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 14:22 Asparagus wrote:
the reason he doesn't post replay packs is because he feels it's "tooting your horn" or "bragging"
if you're at his level, you don't give a shit about what people think about how you're gonna play, zergs build order possibilities have been flushed out already, and the only possibilities left are late-game options based on unit comp.
he's streaming now because
#1 he's in US and not training for GSL
#2 he's bored
He already said he does it for the money.
that too.
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Wow I was really looking forward to this weekend, I've got some time off from exams and was gonna enjoy Idra's stream (one of, if not the highest quality stream on here from a pro gamer) and this shit happens. Greaaaaaaaaaaat.
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On May 06 2011 14:33 Devastate wrote:
Wow I was really looking forward to this weekend, I've got some time off from exams and was gonna enjoy Idra's stream (one of, if not the highest quality stream on here from a pro gamer) and this shit happens. Greaaaaaaaaaaat.
Although this is a bit off topic, on a funny note Idra will be co-casting NASL next week with Gretorp and I'm excited to see how he'll commentate Cruncher's games....
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On May 06 2011 13:20 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
Apologies if this has been brought up before.
I really enjoyed Idra's stream today, especially the Q&A part. It's actually pretty amazing how anyone can ask questions of a top-level pro and actually get answered... really cool interaction with the fans.
I felt he answered a lot of the questions fairly and respectfully. He didn't sound like he was trolling, so I'm going to assume he wasn't.
So it confused me a bit when he said he wasn't having fun playing Starcraft 2. He brought up comparisons with Brood War, saying that in BW you weren't as vulnerable to all-ins because it was easier to defend (and I can sort of see that seeing top-level BW games where people make lots of sunken colonies and lurkers). He made it seem like SC2 was more volatile, easier to win by just making a random build order guess and winning that way, whereas in BW it wouldn't really matter if you had a better build if you were playing someone much more skilled than you.
It made me think a bit. He's not the only one who has said this--Jinro said something very similar. I don't want to turn this into a BW vs SC2 flamewar, because I enjoy watching both. I'm just wondering about Idra saying he wasn't having fun playing SC2. Could he really not be having fun? He's at the top level, at the highest tier of a game that is exploding internationally. How could that not be fun?
For one the high ground advantage for bw was astronomically better in terms of defending. In sc2 just a single colossus or air unit essentially negates any and all high ground advantage. Also in sc2 all the units are just contributing to a stronger army which is very one dimensional in terms of strategy. In bw things like placing spider mines strategically to allow you to push one way while being less susceptible to a counter attack or to slow down an opponent that has an observer and is forced to clear out the mine field to get by, etc.. Camping lurkers outside a protoss base so they are forced to get an observer before they can move out allowing you essential time to get a third or forth up, or maybe sniping observers with scourge so your lurkers can rain uncontested havoc on the protoss army below. Stuff like that. But one thing is damn certain.. Sunkens are unexpressibly better than spine crawlers. In bw you could throw down a few cheap creep colonies and morph then into sunkens when you see the enemy move out. You didnt have to commit 100% and if they moved out then the sunkens would be finished in time which made Zerg much more flexible and stable. In sc2 you have to preemptively put down spines or else they wont finish no matter the map.
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EPT
